Have you witnessed someone lose their religiion

eviltwin

I'm an atheist married to a Catholic, with every word uttered by a priest, bishop, catholic organisation I can see his faith get chipped away. Its more habit with him anyway, he hasn't been to mass in 20 years but its a security blanket I suppose. Thankfully he hasn't insisted on a religious input in our lives, i think it would be a deal breaker. Its not something I could compromise on.

Reindeer

When I was young, I was raised Lutheran. As I matured and became an adult I began to realise how silly it all was. Yes, it would be nice if there were more to this mortal coil, but I'm frankly more terrified of what has and will be done in the name of religion than any perils life or death has in store for me otherwise.

The Cool

I would say I have myself very recently. I'm not sure entirely where I stand at the moment - it's a bit like when you're about 10 and you suddenly start thinking about the actual possibilities of an elderly man and eight reindeer flying around the world in one night. I had never had to deal with close deaths until losing my grandfathers, one each of the past two Augusts and I think that makes you consider that stuff seriously.
I'm CoI and I find that it's not really as life-consuming as Catholicism, maybe that's just my experience. As others have said about being disgusted by the wealth of the RC church, that's not something I would ever have really considered about my own religion - my home church is small and a bit delapidated, we're forever doing fundraisers and dinner dances to raise money to sort out the damp, replace old, worn stuff, etc. So I wouldn't really feel the guilt about that bit of it too much. But I do hate the hypocrisy of the RC church in terms of morality, wealth and everything else.
My other half is a bit the same, I don't know how much religion will be a part of our lives to be honest. I think I would have faith in some kind of spirituality, but having a big story that you're taught from childhood and told that that's just the way it is, does not wash well with me.

My mother has also kind of lost her religion in the past 18 months. Since her dad died she went down into the deep hole of alcoholism. She's sorted her head out and is on the straight and narrow now thank goodness, but she found AA and rehab to be overtly religious. The mantra was to put all your troubles in God's hands and that He would take care of it. Mum didn't like that - she put a lot of hard work into getting her life sorted out and that was to HER credit.

rainbow kirby

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Yes. And we'd have worked out a solution. As it happens, in our case, there was a happy solution that suited us both.

She has no particularly strong views for or against the catholic church. The church wedding includes a civil part also, as I'm sure you know.

I do though - and that's why I would absolutely put the foot down at any church involvement in the major life milestones. I refuse point blank to stand in front of anyone and to promise to raise my future children as Catholics or to go through a sham baptism for any child of mine. People around me made their choices, I'll make my own.

crockholm

The Cool wrote: »

I would say I have myself very recently. I'm not sure entirely where I stand at the moment - it's a bit like when you're about 10 and you suddenly start thinking about the actual possibilities of an elderly man and eight reindeer flying around the world in one night. I had never had to deal with close deaths until losing my grandfathers, one each of the past two Augusts and I think that makes you consider that stuff seriously.
I'm CoI and I find that it's not really as life-consuming as Catholicism, maybe that's just my experience. As others have said about being disgusted by the wealth of the RC church, that's not something I would ever have really considered about my own religion - my home church is small and a bit delapidated, we're forever doing fundraisers and dinner dances to raise money to sort out the damp, replace old, worn stuff, etc. So I wouldn't really feel the guilt about that bit of it too much. But I do hate the hypocrisy of the RC church in terms of morality, wealth and everything else.
My other half is a bit the same, I don't know how much religion will be a part of our lives to be honest. I think I would have faith in some kind of spirituality, but having a big story that you're taught from childhood and told that that's just the way it is, does not wash well with me.

My mother has also kind of lost her religion in the past 18 months. Since her dad died she went down into the deep hole of alcoholism. She's sorted her head out and is on the straight and narrow now thank goodness, but she found AA and rehab to be overtly religious. The mantra was to put all your troubles in God's hands and that He would take care of it. Mum didn't like that - she put a lot of hard work into getting her life sorted out and that was to HER credit.

Whatever you do,don't step into St.Pauls Cathedral in London then,lots of wealth on show there too,and you will be charged to go in.....unlike the Vatican;)

I Heart Internet

rainbow kirby wrote: »

I do though - and that's why I would absolutely put the foot down at any church involvement in the major life milestones. I refuse point blank to stand in front of anyone and to promise to raise my future children as Catholics or to go through a sham baptism for any child of mine. People around me made their choices, I'll make my own.

I 100% understand and support you in that decision. I have zero time for people making a sham of the sacraments.

But, as explained above, we didn't tell any lies and there was no requirement on my wife to agree to raise our children as catholics. And our children's baptism certainly wasn't a sham because it's what I wanted for them and what we were both happy with for them.

I genuinely hope, if and when you find a partner for life that either they have the same views as you regarding all matters of religion or that ye can both compromise on things.

Lingua Franca

crockholm wrote: »

Whatever you do,don't step into St.Pauls Cathedral in London then,lots of wealth on show there too,and you will be charged to go in.....unlike the Vatican;)

Indeed, you can enter the Vatican for free. You can stand in that big square and snap away without it costing you a cent! You do have to pay a fee to get to see just a tiny of their much more massive collection of wealth, though. Want to see the Sistine Chapel? Gonna cost ya!

You also have to pay to get into just about every other cathedral in Italy.

I particularly liked the Duomo in Siena which had all the pews removed so that they could set up trestle tables laden with religious tat for sale so that it looked an indoor market.

You could pay to see inside the Cathedral where they're selling all of the religious tat.
You could pay a little bit more and see the library too.
For an extra small fee you could even see the museum!
...and for just a little bit more you could see the baptistry!
Of course, another fee must be paid to see the crypts. This fee can fluctuate according to demand. You understand, I'm sure.

Oh, and you could pay a small fee to hang some baby bootees in a particular corner as a fertility blessing. Other blessings required a larger fee.

I'm afraid the Catholic church is absolutely not holding the moral high ground on charging into churches. Non Italian Catholics visiting Italy get completely fleeced!

swimming in a sea

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I 100% understand and support you in that decision. I have zero time for people making a sham of the sacraments.

But, as explained above, we didn't tell any lies and there was no requirement on my wife to agree to raise our children as catholics. And our children's baptism certainly wasn't a sham because it's what I wanted for them and what we were both happy with for them.

I genuinely hope, if and when you find a partner for life that either they have the same views as you regarding all matters of religion or that ye can both compromise on things.

correct me if I'm wrong but if a couple marry and one of the couple tell the priest they are not catholic or simply they are atheist they still have to go through repeating all the vows/prayers etc it just makes a sham out of the ceremony.
I'd respect the church a lot more if they told non believers all the best but you can't marry here.

RoyalMarine

I've always kept my distance from religion.

However, my mother had strong faith, as did her parents. When my grandparents both died after a very long 8 year battle with Alzheimer's, strokes, heart problems etc, my mother lost faith. How could she continue to have faith when this "god" allowed her parents to suffer in such a horrific manner.

swimming in a sea

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Indeed, you can enter the Vatican for free. You can stand in that big square and snap away without it costing you a cent! You do have to pay a fee to get to see just a tiny of their much more massive collection of wealth, though. Want to see the Sistine Chapel? Gonna cost ya!

You also have to pay to get into just about every other cathedral in Italy.

I particularly liked the Duomo in Siena which had all the pews removed so that they could set up trestle tables laden with religious tat for sale so that it looked an indoor market.

You could pay to see inside the Cathedral where they're selling all of the religious tat.
You could pay a little bit more and see the library too.
For an extra small fee you could even see the museum!
...and for just a little bit more you could see the baptistry!
Of course, another fee must be paid to see the crypts. This fee can fluctuate according to demand. You understand, I'm sure.

Oh, and you could pay a small fee to hang some baby bootees in a particular corner as a fertility blessing. Other blessings required a larger fee.

I'm afraid the Catholic church is absolutely not holding the moral high ground on charging into churches. Non Italian Catholics visiting Italy get completely fleeced!

I have to say I was not charged to get into any cathedral in rome except the vatican, but you should look on those churches as a marvel to human brilliance and marvel at the architecture, try to forget for a moment about who owns them.
After all you'll marvel at the Colosseum but it was not built buy the nicest of people.

crockholm

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Indeed, you can enter the Vatican for free. You can stand in that big square and snap away without it costing you a cent! You do have to pay a fee to get to see just a tiny of their much more massive collection of wealth, though. Want to see the Sistine Chapel? Gonna cost ya!

You also have to pay to get into just about every other cathedral in Italy.

I particularly liked the Duomo in Siena which had all the pews removed so that they could set up trestle tables laden with religious tat for sale so that it looked an indoor market.

You could pay to see inside the Cathedral where they're selling all of the religious tat.
You could pay a little bit more and see the library too.
For an extra small fee you could even see the museum!
...and for just a little bit more you could see the baptistry!
Of course, another fee must be paid to see the crypts. This fee can fluctuate according to demand. You understand, I'm sure.

Oh, and you could pay a small fee to hang some baby bootees in a particular corner as a fertility blessing. Other blessings required a larger fee.

I'm afraid the Catholic church is absolutely not holding the moral high ground on charging into churches. Non Italian Catholics visiting Italy get completely fleeced!

I know that if you wish to see the sistine chapel,you must pay a cover charge,however, to see the Pieta,I was charged nothing, nor was I charged to see Il Duomo in Milan, or St. Vitus in prague (had to pay for all synagogue's and the Jewish graveyard), never paid to go into any Spanish church/ cathedral.
The only country I have been charged admission to catholic churches was France:(

Lingua Franca

swimming in a sea wrote: »

I have to say I was not charged to get into any cathedral in rome except the vatican, but you should look on those churches as a marvel to human brilliance and marvel at the architecture, try to forget for a moment about who owns them.

No, I'm quite happy with scoffing at the incredibly wealthy Catholic church bilking the public tyvm.

After all you'll marvel at the Colosseum but it was not built buy the nicest of people.

I've never actually been to Rome (the furthest south I got was to Pisa), I've just listened to Catholics giving off about being charged to see the Vatican's wealth.

crockholm wrote: »

I know that if you wish to see the sistine chapel,you must pay a cover charge,however, to see the Pieta,I was charged nothing, nor was I charged to see Il Duomo in Milan, or St. Vitus in prague (had to pay for all synagogue's and the Jewish graveyard), never paid to go into any Spanish church/ cathedral.
The only country I have been charged admission to catholic churches was France:(

All of the older churches and cathedrals in the north of Italy seem to charge, although the only one we paid into was in Siena and I was so appalled I vowed never to give them another penny. So when we went to France a few years later we only saw Notre Dame from the outside. That suited us fine, it was a flying visit and there's a lot more interesting things to see in Paris.

JD DABA

why I dare say I might use a reference to the recent popular music song 'losing my religion, should cause a few guffaws. Originality always was my strong suit.

here goes...

JD DABA

hey ho chaps.................................. I think I thought I saw the OP cry.

crockholm

Lingua Franca wrote: »

No, I'm quite happy with scoffing at the incredibly wealthy Catholic church bilking the public tyvm.




I've never actually been to Rome (the furthest south I got was to Pisa), I've just listened to Catholics giving off about being charged to see the Vatican's wealth.



All of the older churches and cathedrals in the north of Italy seem to charge, although the only one we paid into was in Siena and I was so appalled I vowed never to give them another penny. So when we went to France a few years later we only saw Notre Dame from the outside. That suited us fine, it was a flying visit and there's a lot more interesting things to see in Paris.

I didn't pay in Milan,Bergamo or Verona,only saw St Marks from the outside, You should peek into ND d P, it's a Gothic wonder.Before you get outraged at paying to go into a church( even though you don't in the vast majority of RC ones) remember that a 30 cm cubed piece of stone will easily cost 300 euro to be replaced,so thats a lotta lotta stone and dosh;)

hatrickpatrick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqalYhus5TE

WilyCoyote

If you mean copping on, then I know loads. I went to a Catholic boarding school in Ireland where we had daily Mass, lots of retreats, analysis of Religious texts etc and by 16 I had had enough of the mumbo-jumbo. Got into severe trouble for taking a pro decision in a debate on Darwin (was told that this was the Devil tempting me) and that there was more than enough proof of God's hand in everything. At the time, God was portrayed as a kindly old man - hands, legs, wiener (I presume), long grey hair and a beard. So the beauty of this world was a manifestation of God's creativity. Most of my classmates from the early 60s have seen the light. Weddings, Christenings and Funerals are the only times that I go there now. Not as a religious theme but there generally is a little bit of celebration going on.
If anyone sits down in a calm mood and thinks over all the religious superstition in a logical way, I fail to see how they can come up with a valid argument for any religion (as we know it).

I Heart Internet

swimming in a sea wrote: »

correct me if I'm wrong but if a couple marry and one of the couple tell the priest they are not catholic or simply they are atheist they still have to go through repeating all the vows/prayers etc it just makes a sham out of the ceremony.
I'd respect the church a lot more if they told non believers all the best but you can't marry here.

You are wrong Swimming.

There is a lot of confusion about this. Put quite simply, if you have been baptised into the catholic church you are considered a catholic for the purposes of getting married in a catholic church.

Being a lapsed/non-practicing catholic /= being a non-catholic
2 non-catholics = can't get married in the catholic church (why would they?)
1 catholic and 1 non-catholic can happily be married in the catholic church. It happens quite frequently. There is an alternative rite to take into account the fact that one person is non-catholic.
2 catholics can obviously be married in the catholic chuch
1 (or 2) non-practicing catholics can be married in the catholic church. But expect (naturally) to explain why you'd want to, especially if both are non-practicing. There is no seperate rite (a catholic is a catholic is a catholic) but the actual rite of marriage is quite short and unless you're particularly touchy on the matter, does not contain any explicit promises - other than to one another .

This is off-topic. But I think SOMETIMES confusion is at the root of unhappiness in these matters.

Lingua Franca

crockholm wrote: »

I didn't pay in Milan,Bergamo or Verona,only saw St Marks from the outside, You should peek into ND d P, it's a Gothic wonder.Before you get outraged at paying to go into a church( even though you don't in the vast majority of RC ones) remember that a 30 cm cubed piece of stone will easily cost 300 euro to be replaced,so thats a lotta lotta stone and dosh;)

I know of an institution with a lot of dosh, perhaps they should ask... oh.

armaghbhoy

Was at a funeral just before christmas and it was my first time at mass in years (since my confirmation to be exact), More than half of the people that were there didn't go up for the communion (bread) and didn't kneel for prayers. Although there was a couple more saying the prayers just because they knew them I guess. Most of the young people didn't. Also, more than half the people weren't saying the words that some people usually say after the priest says something. I had forgotten what to do lol but I wasn't going to do it anyway

armaghbhoy

Also know of a priest that quit and got married and had children. He was seen out in a bar one night and was cursing more than the average person.

Not alot of people follow religion these days to be honest

I Heart Internet

armaghbhoy wrote: »

Not alot of people follow religion these days to be honest

And the prize for the biggest generalisation goes to.......

I'll leave this here for the craic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations

And I know "being" religious is not the same as "following" or practicing a religion but, come on.

armaghbhoy

I Heart Internet wrote: »

And the prize for the biggest generalisation goes to.......

I'll leave this here for the craic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations

And I know "being" religious is not the same as "following" or practicing a religion but, come on.

Just because someone is a catholic does not mean that they follow or practice it.

I can't name one single person that goes to mass or gives a damn about it, and I live in a majority catholic area.

In America though, its probably more popular. Or the middle east.

Most definatley not something that I see though, so I have every right to make the generalisation as thats what it looks like around me.

armaghbhoy

I also didn't say that not alot of people don't have a religion which that link is showing that you posted

I simply stated that not many people follow it...

Most people here were born a catholic, they didn't have a choice. So it doesn't mean that they follow it.

I Heart Internet

armaghbhoy wrote: »

Just because someone is a catholic does not mean that they follow or practice it.

I know. I said that.

armaghbhoy wrote: »

Most definatley not something that I see though, so I have every right to make the generalisation as thats what it looks like around me.

In general, I don't do generalisations.

FouxDaFaFa

Just myself. It was a gradual thing but I don't actually remember ever believing in God, it was just this thing that you did. It sounds silly but there was so little variety in primary school religion classes it didn't occur to me that it was an option not to believe. We learned what athiests were but it seemed like people didn't become them, they just were.

It was only when I was about 17 that I was actively like "I want out". We were in secondary school and were told to go to confession (it was an annual thing, I think). I stayed behind because I didn't fancy faking guilt about some ridiculously petty "sin" I had committed.

It's been cemented in the years since then. My mother is the only actively religious person in my family and she takes great comfort from it. However, she's suffered health problems requiring major surgeries every year or two. She's a good person, didn't do anything to bring these health issues on herself. If God is real, he's needlessly cruel, even to those who love him the most.

Benny_Cake

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

Just myself. It was a gradual thing but I don't actually remember ever believing in God, it was just this thing that you did. It sounds silly but there was so little variety in primary school religion classes it didn't occur to me that it was an option not to believe. We learned what athiests were but it seemed like people didn't become them, they just were.

I think the idea that if you are born into something, you remain that way and that's it, is a peculiarly Irish thing. I remember hearing an aunt saying "if you're born a Catholic you should stay a Catholic, if you're born a Protestant you should stay a Protestant". When I was growing up in the 1980s there was one atheist kid in our area who went to a different school to the rest of us. This was considered somewhat exotic at the time, although he never got any stick as he was a sound guy. People were curious if anything. Similarly some people living near my parents started attending a born-again church about 20 years ago, again, this was treated as something truly bizarre. I think the whole weight of Irish history leads to people continuing to associate themselves with the religious community they were reared in, whether they actually believe in any of it or not.

ThreeBlindMice

My aunt spent 6 years training as a Nun and dropped out, never stepped foot inside a Catholic Church since (Except for the usual weddings & Funerals etc).

seamus

Benny_Cake wrote: »

I think the idea that if you are born into something, you remain that way and that's it, is a peculiarly Irish thing.

No, I really don't think it is.

Most religions, those coming from the Abrahamic branch in particular, are very big into the "one of us for life" thing. Judaism takes this to the extreme point, considering "Jewish" to be a distinct ethnicity, completely separate from religion at all.

Thus you can have "Jewish" atheists and "non-Jewish" Jews. Which of course is ridiculous.

Though there are also plenty of sects of christianity (and no doubt in other religions) who are much freer about it and encourage teenagers to go off and discover themselves rather than trying to stamp them as a particular religion at birth.

kylith

Benny_Cake wrote: »

I think the idea that if you are born into something, you remain that way and that's it, is a peculiarly Irish thing. I remember hearing an aunt saying "if you're born a Catholic you should stay a Catholic, if you're born a Protestant you should stay a Protestant". When I was growing up in the 1980s there was one atheist kid in our area who went to a different school to the rest of us. This was considered somewhat exotic at the time, although he never got any stick as he was a sound guy. People were curious if anything. Similarly some people living near my parents started attending a born-again church about 20 years ago, again, this was treated as something truly bizarre. I think the whole weight of Irish history leads to people continuing to associate themselves with the religious community they were reared in, whether they actually believe in any of it or not.

Very true. People tick Catholic on the census because, 'sure wasn't I baptised, and I made my communion and confirmation', they seem to regard it as similar to Nationality. It has yet to be realised by a lot of people that just because you were signed up for a religion when you were little, you're not stuck with it until the day you die, and if you don't believe in it you can forget all about it.