Have you witnessed someone lose their religiion

Esoteric_

Up until a few years ago, I was quite religious and a big believer in my Catholic religion.

After a string of horrendous things happening, with people telling me 'Oh, god tests you with these things,' I realised that the notion of god is a crock of shít. People aren't raped, attacked, robbed, mugged, given cancer and stuff like that as a test. It happens because of genetic mutation (for things like cancer) and because people are fúcking scumbags. If god existed, sure we probably wouldn't have a fantastic life, but we wouldn't have all those awful things happen either, because they go against the teachings of the Catholic religion.

Instead of praying to god to fix **** for me, I got up off my hole, stopped praying and tackled anything bad in my life, one thing at a time.

I'm a million times happier now that I don't believe in any religion. The only time I set foot in a church is for a funeral, christening or a wedding.

My mum is fuming that I'm a non-believer, but hey, let her believe in what she likes and I'll believe in what I like.

Zebra3

December2012 wrote: »

I used to be religious.

On an Italian holiday I went to the Vatican.

With its opulent riches and wealth built up over centuries, centuries during which they persecuted non Catholics and abused and exploited Catholics with their demands of contributions and using embarrassment and shame as a weapon I left there firmly convinced that it was not a religion for me.

All those chopped off lads as well.

IM0

my dad dances like that at weddings

Hoop66

I used to work with a guy who was a full-on, fundamentalist, young-earth creationist. The kind of person you can't say "jesus" around because you get a lecture on taking the lord's name etc etc. I would occasionally argue gently with him, but he was so set in his faith and his determination that god made the world 600 years ago, it was depressing.

Over a weekend, he went from that to a full-on hard atheist, cursing all religion and decrying believers as fools.

I think he was a bit mental tbh.

MadYaker

I don't think I ever lost it, because I never had it in the first place. My father is an atheist but my mother isn't and I think when I was around 12 or 13 I started to realise it was all a load of nonsense.

Dravokivich

First hand here. Always considered Catholic/Christian to be the "Default Setting," so to say. It's how I was brought up through school and such. We were never really taught what religion was. Then I found out about Islam as a teenager watching some documentary late at night. It was at that point I lost it. No intention of seeking it.

seamus

I've witnessed most people I know come from a position of obligated catholicism growing up to a position of either not giving a crap about it, or coming to the full realisation that they don't believe. Very few people I know have maintained the same faith they were told to have as a child.

Can't say I've ever seen anyone have a sudden conversion though. It's usually a gradual process because it takes your brain time to let go of various crutches and realise they're not needed.

I know a few people who are on the verge but can't cognitively let go. They've tried to have conversations with me along the lines of, "You believe in something, right", but after about two minutes the difficult questions come out and they very quickly say, "Ah, this is too deep for a Saturday night, let's talk about something else". I believe these people want to be able to question their faith but are afraid to lest they lose it.

Though for my first two years in secondary school there was a young hip student priest/teacher called brother Eddie, probably in his twenties. Then we came back after summer one year and he was just "Eddie" and no longer wore robes or taught religion. I don't know if he lost his religion or just realised that he was too much a fan of the vagina.

Viper_JB

To me it always seemed like there were two parts and two histories to the catholic church, the one they wanted you to know and the one they don't advertise and don't want people to focus on so much, and for me the more information I discovered and learned about my religion the less I wanted to be a part of it, to the point now where I really believe the church is a bad thing, so I guess I witnessed myself losing my religion better for it though, my life without religion is a life without questions being answered by "just have faith".

sbsquarepants

efb wrote: »

When Dylan dumped Brenda (again)

That was loosing his mind not his religion, Brenda was HOT:)

Jaxxy

I never really had it in the first place. When I reached the age of about twelve it just completely stopped making sense for me. My brother is also an atheist, my mother too and my father is agnostic. As for my peers I have noticed a huge, but gradual shift in their beliefs. Most people I know now are atheist or agnostic, with only one friend I can think of that I would describe as being practicing. A couple turned back to religion after deaths in their immediate family, which is understandable, but most became seriously disillusioned with the church after many of the horrific scandals broke.

I Heart Internet

I used to believe in the power of AH but I've lost faith due to all of the thinly veiled "isn't the catholic church awful" threads.

I now just go to AH to be seen and to please the elderly moderators.

kylith

December2012 wrote: »

I used to be religious.

On an Italian holiday I went to the Vatican.

With its opulent riches and wealth built up over centuries, centuries during which they persecuted non Catholics and abused and exploited Catholics with their demands of contributions and using embarrassment and shame as a weapon I left there firmly convinced that it was not a religion for me.

Having seen other religions holy buildings I think they are the same - money building power building cults.

Kind of the same here. I used to enjoy going to see churches because of the lovely architecture, these days I can barely bring myself to set foot in the door after going to Paris and seeing the amount of gold in Notre Dame and Sacré Coeur, and realising that while the church was amassing all that wealth the common people, who the church has always purported to help, were dying in poverty in the streets, and I got to thinking about how many could have been housed and fed with the hoarded gold.

It wasn't what spurred me to give up religion (that was hearing a priest lecturing people on how to raise their children when I was about 12), but it is what made me sure that I would never change my mind.

Wibbs

seamus wrote: »

I've witnessed most people I know come from a position of obligated catholicism growing up to a position of either not giving a crap about it, or coming to the full realisation that they don't believe. Very few people I know have maintained the same faith they were told to have as a child

Ditto, though I have known a few people who have gravitated towards other belief systems like your vague new age stuff. Others when asked would have some sort of a vague expectation of something being out there.

Spirituality in Ireland is so wrapped up in Catholicism and the latterly usually very strident rejection of that. I can understand that of course considering the monumental fcukups and sheer evil in a few cases that have come to light. Among younger folks I don't get some of the vigour behind it TBH, given that your average 20 year old has grown up in a much changed Ireland compared to say a 50 year old*. An 80 year old has lived through even more of a difference.

Me, I grew up in an Ireland closer to the 50 year old than the 20. That said, I don't carry much if any anger towards clergy. I just see/saw them as believing their stuff and so long as they left me alone game ball. That said me and my peers were lucky in that the priests we knew(and were educated by) had no "kiddie fiddlers" among them. Indeed we were warned by them about such people more than once and told to seek help if that shít went down. Most were fairly sound/normal and some were genuinely kind human beings. I can only recall one utter prick and he would have been an utter prick in or out of a cassock. That said I did know guys who had christian brothers for teachers and many of them were right evil bastards. Heard some stories about right bitches of nuns too.

It's just my humble of course, but I do think we've overswung the pendulum of blame regarding the Catholic church. Not unlike those people who when adults blame all their woes, past and present on a bad parent. They and we as a nation need to get over that IMH. It's too easy to say it was all the churches fault. People seem to overlook the fact that the people of this nation, their mothers and fathers and grandparents etc who supported that church and often helped hide the evil that was going on. Turned the blind eye and all that. I think there's still the smell of some collective guilt buried in the anti clergy meme.

I became agnostic at around 12 years of age. Funny enough it was a priest, one of my teachers who put a name to it and loaned me books on philosophy and theology. Nice man. Actually thinking on it, one of my more obvious feelings concerning the priests I knew is sadness for them. Many of them would have made good fathers, but they missed out on that, because of their restrictive faith.





*exceptions would be the still crazy situation regarding women's reproductive choices which are still very pertinent today.

swimming in a sea

I like to think I'm a believer in something, but not organized religion. I used to go to church when younger simply so i could get sweets in the shop since i lived out in the sticks. I never went in but it was nice to have a chat with your mates at the church gate.

I always hated how the church stuck its nose into everything when growing up, in primary school the parish priest would a few times every week wonder into our school mid class to blabber on about some crap, then every thing from the opening of a phone box to a wedding anniversary had to have a mass as part of the celebration(some fun there).

Just wondering how many with strong views here will still let their wife\husband to be or family pressurize them into a church wedding\christening their children etc

RikkFlair

seamus wrote: »

Though for my first two years in secondary school there was a young hip student priest/teacher called brother Eddie, probably in his twenties. Then we came back after summer one year and he was just "Eddie" and no longer wore robes or taught religion. I don't know if he lost his religion or just realised that he was too much a fan of the vagina.

I'm picturing him wearing sunglasses and preaching to the class via rap music.

I Heart Internet

swimming in a sea wrote: »

Just wondering how many with strong views here will still let their wife\husband to be or family pressurize them into a church wedding\christening their children etc

Your forgetting the key aspect of a successful marriage - compromise.

A couple where (for example) one is an active catholic and one is a non-believer has two aspects to it. There is no just the hard-pressed agnostic/atheist being "railroaded" into a church wedding by a dominant catholic boyfried. There is also a catholic who would dearly like to have their marriage according to the rights of his faith. Two people - so they compromise (somehow - it's different for different couples). Ditto regarding children.

You must remember that for a catholic not to have their child baptised (for example) is not just a passive "well we diecided not to, it's fine". It can be a source of great pain and distress. Likewise, no doubt, for an atheist, or more particularly, a person who actively dislikes the church, I'm sure it can be distressing to see their child receive that church's sacraments. But again - two sides.

You'll note I didn't highlight "or family" in your response as this should be a very, very minor issue (if at all). It's for parents to decide (and eventually, in due course, the young person).

Benny_Cake

Wibbs put it quite well, spirituality and religion are instantly associated with Catholicism by most Irish people. I can understand the hostility many feel towards the Catholic church, but at times the reaction seems to be more one of anti-theism rather than atheism. I've met one or two people who've made strident denunciations of religious belief in the company of people they didn't even know, and I'd imagine if it was the 1950s the same people would have probably been the most fundamentalist Catholics in the parish. Some people just tend towards the extremes.

I never lost my faith, but religion in the sense of Catholicism - it was a drawn out process that took quite a long time. The scandals, the nonsensical position on contraception, support for discrimination against gay people combined with a number of other factors..eventually I realised I was describing myself as a Catholic when deep down it simply wasn't a part of me anymore. When I was honest to myself about that it came as something of a relief. I look at a church that seems to see no issue in putting out someone as compromised as Sean Brady to fight their corner and I just can't see myself ever going back. On a personal level I had no issues with priests or brothers etc, although there was one brother in my school who was an utter creep. People such as Peter McVerry, Helen Prejean and others who fight for justice still have my admiration, it's just a shame that the good they do is overshadowed by the misdeeds of those above them.

So my faith is a personal thing now, I still pray but I only go to Mass in the event of a funeral or wedding, when I sit there quietly and am often the only person who remains seated during communion. It works for me, and I've come to realise that no one has all the answers. Which makes life a lot more interesting than having a sense of absolute certainty about what it's all about.

rainbow kirby

swimming in a sea wrote: »

Just wondering how many with strong views here will still let their wife\husband to be or family pressurize them into a church wedding\christening their children etc

No way. To get married in a church would be to start married life with a lie, and the thought of that disgusts me. I won't have them christened either - again, I'm not going to stand there and talk absolute rubbish to keep other people happy.

StudentDad

Religion and Belief don't always go hand in hand.

The bit about some organised religions that has always irritated me, is the notion that a particular sect has the inside track on god and if you want to get into his good books you have to 'follow their path.'

That's fine as a way of life. There is merit in living a christian or other faith based life.

However, when it comes to the RC church. I do not see an organisation that practices what it preaches.

So when it comes to belief in god or the Flying Spaghetti Monster to my mind that's a personal thing and the organisation that is a church is irrelevant.

SD

Matt_Trakker

Before my communion I asked my folks was Mary really a virgin and was it really Jesus' body we eat at communion, they told me to ask my uncle, a priest.
So I did, He told me no, Mary wasn't a virgin but gave birth to a son before she was married, but she didn't commit sin (sex before marriage).
He said that we eat consecrated bread that turns into the body of Jesus when its blessed.
That's when I stopped believing in anything, you can't have sex and still be a virgin there's no way I want to be part of a religion that pretends to it its savior (a tradition stolen from a previous Egyptian religion btw)......although I was still marched to mass every Saturday until I was about 16 or so.

Didn't really embrace my atheism until a few years ago, I suppose I was always kinda hoping that there was something, but it's fairly easy to see that there isn't.
But life is short and should be embraced and enjoyed.

Benny_Cake

swimming in a sea wrote: »

Just wondering how many with strong views here will still let their wife\husband to be or family pressurize them into a church wedding\christening their children etc

I know of a few people who did just that. In fairness, if one partner is religious I don't see anything wrong with it as it may be a position that they agreed to compromise on. If both partners are religious though, it's essentially treating the church as a nice venue. It's dishonest, and given that there is nothing unusual about a civil ceremony these days, completely unnecessary.

Zebra3

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Your forgetting the key aspect of a successful marriage - compromise.

A couple where (for example) one is an active catholic and one is a non-believer has two aspects to it. There is no just the hard-pressed agnostic/atheist being "railroaded" into a church wedding by a dominant catholic boyfried. There is also a catholic who would dearly like to have their marriage according to the rights of his faith. Two people - so they compromise (somehow - it's different for different couples). Ditto regarding children.

You must remember that for a catholic not to have their child baptised (for example) is not just a passive "well we diecided not to, it's fine". It can be a source of great pain and distress. Likewise, no doubt, for an atheist, or more particularly, a person who actively dislikes the church, I'm sure it can be distressing to see their child receive that church's sacraments. But again - two sides.

You'll note I didn't highlight "or family" in your response as this should be a very, very minor issue (if at all). It's for parents to decide (and eventually, in due course, the young person).

Yeah, but you're ignoring all those people railroaded into having church weddings/kids put into the RC church not because their OH is anyway really catholic but because the bird (and it's usually the bird) wants a church wedding (because it looks good) and she wants the kids put into the kiddie fiddler cult because the grandparents expect it or because "just in case".

That ain't compromise, it's pure selfishness.

I Heart Internet

rainbow kirby wrote: »

No way. To get married in a church would be to start married life with a lie, and the thought of that disgusts me. I won't have them christened either - again, I'm not going to stand there and talk absolute rubbish to keep other people happy.

That's not true Kirby - or need not be.

I was married to my wife in church. She is a babtised catholic but unbelieving. I am an active catholic. We explained the situation to the priest and were extremely clear that we would not want to stand in church and tell lies (that was pretty much or exact words). This was entirely fine with him and worked fine. My wife was very happy that we would be married in a way that suited both of us (practically as well as spiritually (or lack) of) and being entirely honest in front of friends, family and respecting the rites of the church.

Remember that catholics marry non-catholics (people of a differnt faith and none - not just lapsed catholics) all the time and neither party starts their marriage with a lie.

When it came to baptising our children, my wife was happy with the social aspect but we were clear that I was asking for them to be baptised.

Compromise Kirby - key to a good marriage. We were both happy with how we proceeded. I respected her views, she respected mine.

I can't see a problem arising where one party is unbelieving or beleives something different. I can only see a problem where one party is actually hostile to their partners church, beliefs or lack of beliefs. If that's the case, the partner isn't really accepting of their partner at all.

I Heart Internet

Zebra3 wrote: »

Yeah, but you're ignoring all those people railroaded into having church weddings/kids put into the RC church not because their OH is anyway really catholic but because the bird (and it's usually the bird) wants a church wedding (because it looks good) and she wants the kids put into the kiddie fiddler cult because the grandparents expect it or because "just in case".

That ain't compromise, it's pure selfishness.

If neither party is catholic (in this example) you have no business getting married in a catholic church. If either or both party is a catholic but not an active one then they need to think why they want to be married according to the rites of a church they're not even active in.

I have no time for people looking for a nice venue or out to please grandparents.

Digging in of heels doesn't help in these matters. Anyone who uses the term "kiddie fiddler cult", for example is unlikely to compromise.

Zebra3

I Heart Internet wrote: »

If neither party is catholic (in this example) you have no business getting married in a catholic church.

Yet the RC church still gladly takes their business and pockets the fee, sorry, I mean tax-free "donation".

rainbow kirby

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Compromise Kirby - key to a good marriage. We were both happy with how we proceeded. I respected her views, she respected mine.

Would you have respected her views if she insisted on a humanist or civil ceremony?

Columbia

I lost my faith at some point, but I don't know/remember when. All I know is that aged 9/10, I believed in God, and aged 17, I didn't. I stopped going to mass at age 11, but that was because the formula 1 on RTE clashed with the Sunday 12:30 service...

I Heart Internet

Zebra3 wrote: »

Yet the RC church still gladly takes their business and pockets the fee, sorry, I mean tax-free "donation".

That's not true (your quote referred to the situation where neither party was catholic). If you read my post carefully you'll see I made a distinction (and it's an important one) between non-catholics and non-practicing catholics.

Like I say, two non-catholics can't and wouldn't be married in a cathaolic church with catholic rites. (Think of two buddhists walking into a mosque and asking to be married).

But a couple where one or more party is a catholic but either lapsed in the practice of their faith or unbelieving are still catholics. Therefore they can have some right to request to be married in the catholic faith.

Most priests are realistic when approached in the latter case. The choices are: slam the door in the faces of these unpracticing catholics OR welcome them, admister the sacrament (which is the primary duty of a priest) and hope that by doing that they rekindle some interest (dare i say love) of God and church.

Most priests aren't the "slam the door in the face" variety. But most will try to ask questions like: "why the church if you don't practice your faith anyway?"

I Heart Internet

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Would you have respected her views if she insisted on a humanist or civil ceremony?

Yes. And we'd have worked out a solution. As it happens, in our case, there was a happy solution that suited us both.

She has no particularly strong views for or against the catholic church. The church wedding includes a civil part also, as I'm sure you know.

crockholm

I would see myself as an Agnostic person, and I am happily ignorant for now,I don't seek a definite answer just now. There is still a very cultural Catholic thing alive in me, and I am uncomfortable about zelous anti-catholicism.

I still remember the girl in our class,when we were in national school, who was from a p1ss poor family of alcho's. She never had any lunch with her,but every day she would be called out of the class and re-appear just before the sos was over.

It was only later that I found out that the Nuns used to feed her and wash her clothes at the weekends.