Bus Eireann strike - services have resumed (Read first post)

Vahevala

end of the road, if DB go out on strike, how can i get to work, I live (about 45 mins by bus from the city centre), I don't have a car or a bike and can't afford a taxi so please tell me, how can I get to work?

SandyfordGuy

Interesting you should attack foggy when you only recently started posting jushere again after years of absence

Your attack clearly shows that you have been around here in some other guise to make such comments.

cdebru

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

What do you expect these people do not know what the word premiums mean andpseem to think that overtime should be scheduled

Someone told me once in another country how they gamed a similar system. Turned down a 40hour a week contract to take a lower one since forty hours restricted then from working much overtime

They now work 30hours and around ten overtime with the extra hours at double time. This allows them to game a sizeable increase in pa when in really it should all be at a standard hourly rate.

And I know a man who knows a man who swears he can turn coal into gold. Completely irrelevant just like your post.

runawaybishop

cdebru wrote: »

What? logic please ?

How does an across the board cut hurt people earning a basic wage not working shifts more than those working shifts?

Are you for serious?

cdebru

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Interesting you should attack foggy when you only recently started posting jushere again after years of absence

Your attack clearly shows that you have been around here in some other guise to make such comments.

Like I said report your suspicions to the mods I'm sure they can put your mind at ease. And learn to use the quote function please.

cdebru

runawaybishop wrote: »

Are you for serious?

Yes ? did I say something that sounded not serious?

An across the board cut reduces everyones wages by the same percentage, cuts to just shift pay only affect those who work shifts. Surely I don't need to spell it out for you.

devnull

cdebru wrote: »

And I know a man who knows a man who swears he can turn coal into gold. Completely irrelevant just like your post.

But it is true though what he is saying isn't it.

To use an example:
Wage at company A is €10 per hour. Worker A and Worker B work exactly the same shifts on the same days and overtime is 1.5x pay.

Worker A works 40 hours a week at €10 an hour and earns €400 a week
Worker B works 30 hours a week at €10 an hour and earns €300 a week

Worker A does no overtime since it will be harder to fit much of it within his legal driving hours when he is already contracted for 40 hours.

Worker B is working 10 hours a week regularly overtime since he signed a 30 hour a week contract. He then earns €150 for his overtime

Worker B then earns €50 more per week than worker A for doing the same shifts because his hours are classified as overtime when they are actually scheduled hours if he is working them every week of the year.

cdebru

ixoy wrote: »

Just a small thing here - not all BE workers are in the unions involved and, of those that are, not all voted for the current actions. I know for a fact not all BE workers support the current industrial action.

Well obviously a clerical worker would not be in the NBRU nor would a mechanic. And again obviously only 82.5% rejected the labour court ruling meaning 17.5% were Ok with it and subsequently would not want to strike over it. Hardly insider knowledge there.

cdebru

devnull wrote: »

But it is true though what he is saying isn't it.

To use an example:
Wage at company A is €10 per hour. Worker A and Worker B work exactly the same shifts on the same days and overtime is 1.5x pay.

Worker A works 40 hours a week at €10 an hour and earns €400 a week
Worker B works 30 hours a week at €10 an hour and earns €300 a week

Worker A does no overtime since it will be harder to fit much of it within his legal driving hours when he is already contracted for 40 hours.

Worker B is working 10 hours a week regularly overtime since he signed a 30 hour a week contract. He then earns €150 for his overtime

Worker B then earns €50 more per week than worker A for doing the same shifts because his hours are classified as overtime when they are actually scheduled hours if he is working them every week of the year.

Yup but also irrelevant as Bus Eireann drivers are not contracted to work 30 hours a week or indeed 36 hours a week. So the relevance here is what exactly?

SandyfordGuy

Although management would be at fault if such a situation was allowed to develop like that.

Scheduled hours that led regularly being worked week in week out should not be paid at overtime rates they should be paid at normal rates other than if they are non scheduled

end of the road

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

I for one hope BE don't bend to the unions demands

a deal will be reached eventually so put up with it

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

it will set a bad precedent for future negotiations for other semi-states/departments with unions.

rubbish

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

I think Ireland has gone far to long without a strike

so you want more strikes?

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

which to me indicates we have been bending to the unions demands for far too long.

no i'l think you'l find its as simple as the unions were happy with what they were getting, way different to "bending to the unions demands"

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Like others have said liquidate BE

and then i think you should be taxed more to pay for the drivers who will lose their jobs, you want BE liquidated so you should have to pay for the fallout, those who don't wish it to happen shouldn't have to be paying for the fallout, or even better keep the negotiations going until a deal is reached, grudgingly or not.

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

see how quickly the unions and workers will agree to these pay cut proposals, if they do

they definitely wouldn't if they did, and rightly so, negotiations are the best way forward

devnull

cdebru wrote: »

Yup but also irrelevant as Bus Eireann drivers are not contracted to work 30 hours a week or indeed 36 hours a week. So the relevance here is what exactly?

It's called an example.

SandyfordGuy

What is your connection with the industry

I see you continue to avoid the question but you could not know such things if you had none and people have a right to know

foggy_lad

cdebru wrote: »

What over inflated perks ?

How much is the Lunch allowance, what are the conditions for getting such an allowance ?
What is the mileage rate ? Do all drivers working in Edenderry live within a mile or 2 of Edenderry?


I expect specific examples of the over inflated perks, including rates and conditions for payment or I'll presume you are just talking the usual nonsense. thanking you and looking forward to your reply.

They get paid an inflated overtime rate, most private workers get time and a quarter after their 8 hours but bus Éireann staff get time and a half, they also get double time on Sundays and the meal allowance is €7 daily afaik when you are rostered on a route where there is no proper canteen available where you take your lunch.

As for the mileage allowances, many drivers will operate on routes in their own areas so will often be driving a bus to their own town and parking it there overnight then they or another driver will drive the bus the next morning from the regional depot/yard.

they get more uncertified sick leave than most private companies would ever tolerate(most allow some days but these would be unpaid or taken from the annual leave). there is also more annual leave for bus éireann workers than privates give.

Why do bus Éireann drivers and their unions feel their work is so much more valuable than that of private company drivers who are also union members??

runawaybishop

cdebru wrote: »

Yes ? did I say something that sounded not serious?

An across the board cut reduces everyones wages by the same percentage, cuts to just shift pay only affect those who work shifts. Surely I don't need to spell it out for you.

The guy that works more overtime gets paid more than someone that is scheduled for basic hours - despite working the same amount of time. Premium should be cut first, not basic pay packets.

cdebru

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Although management would be at fault if such a situation was allowed to develop like that.

Scheduled hours that led regularly being worked week in week out should not be paid at overtime rates they should be paid at normal rates other than if they are non scheduled

When Dublin Bus had 4 day week drivers they were paid flat rate for overtime till they had done the normal 38 hours work that 5 day drivers did. I presume it would be similar in Bus Eireann.

Rostered overtime in BE is not were someone gets overtime but actually works less than an normal week. It is where there working hours are over the normal 38 hour week. so for example if they were working 9 hours a day for 5 days that is 45 hours a week they would be paid 7 hours overtime. As they have worked 7 hours over there contracted hours.

SandyfordGuy

My point exactly runawaybishop

Patser

foggy_lad wrote: »

We all know of people who live in say Edenderry and get the meal allowance because they are working the 120 and have to take their lunch out in the "shed" in Edenderry despite only being a mile or two from home, they also get mileage allowances for starting work away from the base which would presumably be the bus depot at Broadstone even though they could fall out of bed into the bus they drove home the day before to Edenderry. most routes are the same.

Just to shoot this nonsense down. None of those drivers would be entitled to a meal allowance. If you're on a roster that is from a satellite depot - Edenderry, Kells, Newbridge - for example, that depot becomes your home base, so there is no away from base payment. Meal allowance really only exists for expressway drivers who have to take their break far away from their base/locker/car.

The meal allowance is €7, paid to a minority of drivers and for those who say no-one else gets it, what are 'expenses' that many, many travelling sales or business men claim.

As for Edenderry lads getting home for lunch. That's always been an ideal situation for driver and company, get a roster down where you live. Typical day would be busy commuter run in in morning, another trip back out, long break with time to go home, trip back in and busy commuter service back out. Long day but broken by a break at home. Absolutely no special allowances on it though. So Foggy you're wrong here.

cdebru

runawaybishop wrote: »

The guy that works more overtime gets paid more than someone that is scheduled for basic hours - despite working the same amount of time. Premium should be cut first, not basic pay packets.

Honestly you have things backwards upside down and completely messed up.

No one gets overtime unless they work over the normal full week be that 36 for clerical or 38 hours for drivers. Premiums are paid for working Sundays, Bank Holidays and for working shifts. Clerical staff do not work Sundays or Bank Holidays nor do they work shifts. Cuts to those payments only affect those that work shifts leaving those that don't have to work shifts with their full pay.

Clerical staff can work overtime and they would be paid overtime for hours worked over and above the current 36 hours they are contracted for. Drivers can work overtime and they will only be paid overtime for hours worked over and above the 38 hours they are contracted for.

Hope that clarifies it for you.

devnull

cdebru wrote: »

so for example if they were working 9 hours a day for 5 days that is 45 hours a week they would be paid 7 hours overtime. As they have worked 7 hours over there contracted hours.

But if they are working a 45 hour week every week then they should be contracted for that time and paid it at normal rate since that is their normal week that they are working regularly. It is bad management if that is not already the case and a gross waste of resources by the company.

Overtime should be what happens in exceptional cases when extra work is needed than what someone is working on an average day of work. It being worked every day is a sign of gross inefficiency in the way the pay system and contracts are drawn up.

This would be losing the company money which they shouldn't be losing and leading to the workers getting paid more than they would be in any well run company in which if someone was working extra hours every day for their role continuously, they'd be contracted to do this.

However there is a very easy way BE can cut down on the amount of overtime being paid if it's paid for people working beyond 38 hours regardless if it's regular or not and this will hit the pockets much more than any cuts that are on the table. Can you think what it is?

devnull

Patser wrote: »

Meal allowance really only exists for expressway drivers who have to take their break far away from their base/locker/car.

Are they incapable of taking their lunch with them like drivers in other companies? Or is this forbidden?

runawaybishop

cdebru wrote: »

Honestly you have things backwards upside down and completely messed up.

No one gets overtime unless they work over the normal full week be that 36 for clerical or 38 hours for drivers. Premiums are paid for working Sundays, Bank Holidays and for working shifts. Clerical staff do not work Sundays or Bank Holidays nor do they work shifts. Cuts to those payments only affect those that work shifts leaving those that don't have to work shifts with their full pay.

Clerical staff can work overtime and they would be paid overtime for hours worked over and above the current 36 hours they are contracted for. Drivers can work overtime and they will only be paid overtime for hours worked over and above the 38 hours they are contracted for.

Hope that clarifies it for you.

It does, thank you.

devnull

cdebru wrote: »

No one gets overtime unless they work over the normal full week be that 36 for clerical or 38 hours for drivers.

A normal full week for someone should be the normal hours they work.

cdebru

Patser wrote: »

Just to shoot this nonsense down. None of those drivers would be entitled to a meal allowance. If you're on a roster that is from a satellite depot - Edenderry, Kells, Newbridge - for example, that depot becomes your home base, so there is no away from base payment. Meal allowance really only exists for expressway drivers who have to take their break far away from their base/locker/car.

The meal allowance is €7, paid to a minority of drivers and for those who say no-one else gets it, what are 'expenses' that many, many travelling sales or business men claim.

As for Edenderry lads getting home for lunch. That's always been an ideal situation for driver and company, get a roster down where you live. Typical day would be busy commuter run in in morning, another trip back out, long break with time to go home, trip back in and busy commuter service back out. Long day but broken by a break at home. Absolutely no special allowances on it though. So Foggy you're wrong here.

I thought as much, A lot of people running around here with half baked notions.

So it is 7 euro and only restricted to certain drivers in certain conditions, so you are not all dining in Patrick Guilbaud for lunch everday then ?

SandyfordGuy

Still avoiding my question

What is your connection with the industry.

The silence speaks volumes

the_syco

runawaybishop wrote: »

They were supposed to give 7 days notice the first time

Well, it's not like the Unions are above the law. Oh, wait...

Patser

devnull wrote: »

Are they incapable of taking their lunch with them like drivers in other companies? Or is this forbidden?

Not forbidden, they can if they want. However this is a long standing condition, if management want to change it they need to get agreement on it.

runawaybishop

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Still avoiding my question

What is your connection with the industry.

The silence speaks volumes

I've used a bus before, why aren't you demanding that info from me? So what if they are involved, they are still allowed to have an opinion

devnull

Patser wrote: »

Not forbidden, they can if they want. However this is a long standing condition, if management want to change it they need to get agreement on it.

Whether it is long standing or not, such things are not sustainable in the current climate and some staff need to realise this, we are in a recession, though you'd never guess this.

Many people out there would be aghast that any such term happened in the boom times let alone now, and in a loss making company it certainly cannot be sustained, especially when it is a taxpayer funded one.

People are struggling to stay afloat in the recession and drivers still want to have lunches contributed to out of the tax of the public purse. That is greed in my book.

cdebru

devnull wrote: »

But if they are working a 45 hour week every week then they should be contracted for that time and paid it at normal rate since that is their normal week that they are working regularly. It is bad management if that is not already the case and a gross waste of resources by the company.

Overtime should be what happens in exceptional cases when extra work is needed than what someone is working on an average day of work. It being worked every day is a sign of gross inefficiency in the way the pay system and contracts are drawn up.

This would be losing the company money which they shouldn't be losing and leading to the workers getting paid more than they would be in any well run company in which if someone was working extra hours every day for their role continuously, they'd be contracted to do this.

However there is a very easy way BE can cut down on the amount of overtime being paid if it's paid for people working beyond 38 hours regardless if it's regular or not and this will hit the pockets much more than any cuts that are on the table. Can you think what it is?

But it is a roster so they may not need the 45 hours from that driver every week his roster for next week might be a flat 38 or 42. Therefor you could be contracting him for hours you don't need, which would be a waste of resources. Also a lot of drivers in BE would be spare so it is not the same guy working 45 hours every week.

No unfortunately it is the nature of the work, it is not an office job were you can just send someone home at the same time everyday. Driving to various locations doesn't neatly fit into a 38 hour week.

Unfortunately most of you posting here have absolutely no idea of the complexity of rosters, and fitting them in with the work time directive etc etc.