Bus Eireann strike - services have resumed (Read first post)

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

How do drivers working for private companies survive without all the extras that Bus Éireann employees believe they are entitled to?

again, who cares? what goes on in the private sector is irrelevant to this conversation

foggy_lad wrote: »

Maybe the answer is to let them go and rehire drivers at the current going rate.

no

listermint

end of the road wrote: »

who cares? were not talking about the private sector or how things are done there, were talking about BE

end of the road wrote: »

again, who cares? what goes on in the private sector is irrelevant to this conversation

no

But we were talking about them for 6 Years with benchmarking....

Whats changed ?

Oh right, were in recession now. Were not talking about them anymore..:rolleyes:

cdebru

big syke wrote: »

I am not in a union and am paid a fair wage from a company that an afford my wages and other perk.

So you think everyone should organise a union to ensure perks, job security etc even if the company is gone/going bust and propped up by pso?

Propped up ? So you think if BE did not exist all the services provided by BE would still exist at the same level ?

The government wants those services but they don't want to pay for them they want the staff in BE to pay for them that is the problem.

cdebru

Victor wrote: »

Analysis of the PSO indicated it was too high, so it was cut.

Analysis by who ?

cdebru

bmaxi wrote: »

I spent many years as a truck driver and never got a single penny for meal allowance, nor did I have canteen facilities to heat up food or toilet facilities.
I brought a packed lunch every day and drank water or juice, I peed where I could and relied on the hospitality of others when no.2s were required and I certainly wasn't unique.
If I were a BE driver I'd be more concerned to be getting a wage packet every week than a few euro meal allowance, I think the Government are determined this is going to be a last stand and BE may not exist this time next year.

And you think that is an acceptable way to work ? And truck driving and passenger transport are too completely different things, you break a litttle hard as long as you secured your load no big deal, try doing that in a bus. Bus driving is far more demanding.

So your point is what you worked under ****e conditions so everyone else should have to do the same ? My Father tells me he didn't have shoes to go to school so I guess it will be ok to not bother buying shoes for my kids as well. I mean if it was good enough for him etc etc .

cdebru

listermint wrote: »

But we were talking about them for 6 Years with benchmarking....

Whats changed ?

Oh right, were in recession now. Were not talking about them anymore..:rolleyes:

Your rolleyes would be far more effective if you actually knew what you were talking about.

Benchmarking never applied to any semi state employee it was purely for the civil and public service, which BE is not part of.

cdebru

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Of course andhasten your demise as you squabble about things that are minor and then wonder why things in the company keep getting worse

Your rate of pay is not minor, but I understand you feel some jealousy towards those who are organised. Instead of wasting your life wishing it was better or wishing others was as bad as yours you should do something about it.

SandyfordGuy

I hope the union pay you well to promote propaganda

Note you tstill will not declare dconflict of interest

Everyone can see through your continued spin.

Shame you need to resort to it

But don't worry you are right everyone else is wrong. Shame you do not have a communist regime since that would suit your type since you seem to hate people expressing their views

You do little for the image of tax payers funded companies and give such staff and bad name. Your posts from years lago and your foul language show what kind of person you are

You have no respect for others. The greed and money and other things have stopped you from being in the real world

It disgusts people here and you do your union no favours.

cdebru

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Do you have a connection to the socialist party or the United left alliance.

Nobody was asking you to go below minimum wage and we are talking about Ireland

As for as I am aware taxpayers do not pay for Bangladesh but maybe I am wrong.

You are not near the bottom
Spending money you do not have is not working.

Maybe you should try spending more than you have so you can't pay the bills

The repossession men will soon be around.

Not a member of any political party thanks for asking though.

No not below minimum wage just down to the minimum wage then you could be happy.

Taking money of people who are just barely surviving is not working all it is doing is killing the economy as more shops, pubs, garages, restaurants close as people simply don't have the money to spend.

All we are doing is taking reasonably paid jobs and replacing them with minimum wage jobs that the average Irish person can't afford to live on so we get some migrants from eastern Europe to come here and be exploited. 10 people living in a house minimum wage you can't live on it here but for them it is a good wage compared to what they can get back home. But they won't build a life on it just save and get enough to get them started back home. That is the type of Ireland you people want to see. An Ireland of cheap migrant labour and 15% unemployment because they can't afford to take those jobs.

cdebru

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

I hope the union pay you well to promote propaganda

Note you tstill will not declare dconflict of interest

Everyone can see through your continued spin.

Shame you need to resort to it

But don't worry you are right everyone else is wrong. Shame you do not have a communist regime since that would suit your type since you seem to hate people expressing their views

You do little for the image of tax payers funded companies and give such staff and bad name. Your posts from years lago and your foul language show what kind of person you are

You have no respect for others. The greed and money and other things have stopped you from being in the real world

It disgusts people here and you do your union no favours.

Good to see you have been elected to speak for everyone, I must have missed that election when was it ?

cdebru

I see BE and the unions have reached an interim agreement, like I said it is all a pantomime.

cdebru

devnull wrote: »

A normal full week for someone should be the normal hours they work.

So for a junior doctor that would be what 85 hours ?

Nonsense a normal full week in this country is between 35 and 40 hours depending on what your contract says. Anything above that is overtime what rate you get paid for that is a matter of contract.

end of the road

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

I hope the union pay you well to promote propaganda

oh because the media wouldn't do such a thing themselves to turn people against the unions and public sector workers no? yeah, i forgot the media always tells the truth

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Note you tstill will not declare dconflict of interest

why should he, its none of your business, however if it makes you happy i will declare i'm an ordinary member of the public, yet i support the drivers, many out there like me dispite what you and others would like to believe

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Everyone can see through your continued spin.

no, you just think theirs spin when their isn't

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Shame you need to resort to it

resort to what?

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

But don't worry you are right everyone else is wrong. Shame you do not have a communist regime since that would suit your type since you seem to hate people expressing their views

oh dear, throwing the toys out of the pram much aren't we?

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

You do little for the image of tax payers funded companies and give such staff and bad name. Your posts from years lago and your foul language show what kind of person you are

what are you on about? seriously, i don't know exactly which poster your referring to as you don't seem to wish to use the quote function but i can guess who your referring to, i haven't read any "foul language" from said poster, nor does said poster do little for the image for state companies or their staff

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

You have no respect for others.

oh? tell me more? who has the poster no respect for? to be honest i wouldn't have respect for those who want workers thrown out on the dole because they dare to go out on strike when the talks break down and they have no other option but to do so

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

The greed and money and other things have stopped you from being in the real world

hmmmmm? again, tell me more

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

It disgusts people here and you do your union no favours.

who does it disgust? what union is the poster a member of that he doesn't do any favours? or is it a case that only union members would support the BE drivers? because if one thinks that, then they need a reality check

Victor

Stop the bickering.

Moderator

Victor

cdebru wrote: »

maybe you should get out more.

There is no need for such comments.

Moderator

cbl593h

All over.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/deal-reached-between-management-and-drivers-in-bus-dispute-594585.html

16/05/2013 - 10:11:38
Bus Éireann bosses have reached a deal with drivers.

It follows marathon overnight talks between management and unions at the Labour Relations Commission.

There is agreement on a range of proposed cost saving measures.

They will now be put to trade unions for balloting.

If ratified, the agreement will start on the June 1 and is for 19 months until the first of January 1, 2015.

ixoy

Glad to hear they've reached an agreement. Now of course the members could reject it yet but I assume, with the aggressive NRBU and SIPTU heads agreeing to it, it will be passed as the best deal they could get.

Does that mean the SIPTU ballot will be pulled as well as the other ballot for a "solidarity strike"? Or will they still go ahead pending agreement on the new proposals?

syklops

cbl593h wrote: »

All over.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/deal-reached-between-management-and-drivers-in-bus-dispute-594585.html

16/05/2013 - 10:11:38
Bus Éireann bosses have reached a deal with drivers.

It follows marathon overnight talks between management and unions at the Labour Relations Commission.

There is agreement on a range of proposed cost saving measures.

They will now be put to trade unions for balloting.

If ratified, the agreement will start on the June 1 and is for 19 months until the first of January 1, 2015.

No details of what the agreement is. Leo Varadkar said he would prefer more strikes over not getting the savings. So presumably, the savings have been made? Or maybe there is more wrangling going on. LIke they will get the savings in other parts of the department, but BE drivers won't be able to strike in solidarity because of this deal?

cdebru

ixoy wrote: »

Glad to hear they've reached an agreement. Now of course the members could reject it yet but I assume, with the aggressive NRBU and SIPTU heads agreeing to it, it will be passed as the best deal they could get.

Does that mean the SIPTU ballot will be pulled as well as the other ballot for a "solidarity strike"? Or will they still go ahead pending agreement on the new proposals?

The whole thing was a set up start to finish. There was no need for any industrial action.

Rumour yesterday was BE wanted a 10% pay cut for everyone but 10% is 13 million not 5. Expect a 4%cut across the board.makes it look like the unions did a good deal. Varadkars comment yesterday was part of the play make it look like he wants a strike.

Con Logue

cdebru wrote: »

Good to see you have been elected to speak for everyone, I must have missed that election when was it ?

Well I may be a little skeptical but you do not "disgust" me cdebru. SandyfordGuy does not speak for me. I certainly do not want C and T to have one single approved opinion on anything to do with its remit. Private buses good everything else bad and all that.

bmaxi

cdebru wrote: »

Then the workers there should organise shouldn't they ? If you don't organise then you get pissed on that is the lesson more people should learn it.

I don't disagree with the concept that workers need to organise for their own protection, I've been a union member for most of my working life, even, at one time a shop steward.
However we have to be realistic, Government, driven by the Troika, have made it clear there are going to be cuts in the Public service, these can come in the form of cuts to terms and conditions or in cuts to jobs, the drivers in BE have to decide which is preferable.
It's common knowledge in the developed world, that we cannot continue in the way we have been, Europe is losing jobs to the near and far East at an enormous rate. It is not an argument to say that wages and conditions in these countries are abysmal, the counter argument is that wages and conditions here are too good. All this will change as their economies grow richer and their governments realise that education will enrich them even more, this is already happening in China and India. Educated workers will not accept the conditions and wages paid today, it is a process of equalisation in the world, although where it will eventually lead is unclear.
It is incumbent on trade union members to keep as many people working in this country as possible, even if that means taking a smaller slice of a diminishing cake.

devnull

To be fair to everyone though - nobody speaks for everyone on this board, be that SandyfordGuy or others - everyone has a right to have their say from both sides.

Hilly Bill

cdebru wrote: »

Where did I say anyone was going to lose 10K, show me the post ?

if you are just going to lie and make stuff up not much point in debating with you.


You don't know any private sector company where people get sudsidised food ? seriously ? maybe you should get out more.

I created an example to explain to you how it works, as obviously you have no idea.

The company is not losing money, the government cut the PSO and the management is trying to make up the difference by cutting staff wages. So effectively you want the workers to subsidise the PSO. This in a company where they have already stripped out 30 million in costs since the downturn by agreements between the unions and the company.

And what next year when the government again cut the PSO again, back to the well again and bleed some more out of the workers ?

I sometimes think the best thing that could happen is the end of the semi state transport sector because a private company would tell the government were to go if they demanded a 25% cut in payments for the same service.

The same private company would also tell its employees where to go if they went on strike over a meal alowance.

Hilly Bill

cdebru wrote: »

Where did I say anyone was going to lose 10K, show me the post ?

if you are just going to lie and make stuff up not much point in debating with you.


You don't know any private sector company where people get sudsidised food ? seriously ? maybe you should get out more.

I created an example to explain to you how it works, as obviously you have no idea.

The company is not losing money, the government cut the PSO and the management is trying to make up the difference by cutting staff wages. So effectively you want the workers to subsidise the PSO. This in a company where they have already stripped out 30 million in costs since the downturn by agreements between the unions and the company.

And what next year when the government again cut the PSO again, back to the well again and bleed some more out of the workers ?

I sometimes think the best thing that could happen is the end of the semi state transport sector because a private company would tell the government were to go if they demanded a 25% cut in payments for the same service.

cdebru wrote: »

And there are people in Bangladesh working for 10 dollars a week so should we tell those on the minimum wage here they have it cushy as well?

people like you won't be happy till everyone is on the minimum wage or has the same ****ty conditions to work in as you apparently do. It is called the race to the bottom. And quite frankly it is disgusting.

Take money out of peoples pockets all you are doing is ****ing this country up more. Austerity does not work it just makes the majority of people poorer.

Thats exactly it.

Vic_08

bk wrote: »

It isn't that they can make 200k a day, it is that even with a strike going, they still have many costs that have to be paid, while no revenue is coming in.

For instance electricity and security staff for all bus stations and depots. Insurance, management salaries (they aren't on strike), advertising, contract cleaners, etc.

200k a day, that is 78 million a year expenditure excluding running costs for the entire fleet and wages for the majority of staff. There is a good place to look for reasons for the financial crisis the company is in.

cdebru

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The same private company would also tell its employees where to go if they went on strike over a meal alowance.

They went on strike over a meal allowance ? Really so the meal allowance is gone now, but they kept their shift pay. Maybe you should have a word with the NBRU and Siptu and let them know they have made a mistake, since you know the strike was over a meal allowance.

cdebru

Vic_08 wrote: »

200k a day, that is 78 million a year expenditure excluding running costs for the entire fleet and wages for the majority of staff. There is a good place to look for reasons for the financial crisis the company is in.

Exactly, which is what I said before trim the wastage in the company, then come looking for reductions in staff wages if you are still in trouble. No BE management want to keep the sponsorship of the womens football league, christmas on ice, christmas panto, the cork city marathon for example and cut their staff wages first.

The place is top heavy with Regional, Area, Divisional, Operations managers, but of course turkeys don't vote for christmas so they carefully avoid having anyone point the finger and asking are all these managers really needed.

Hilly Bill

cdebru wrote: »

They went on strike over a meal allowance ? Really so the meal allowance is gone now, but they kept their shift pay. Maybe you should have a word with the NBRU and Siptu and let them know they have made a mistake, since you know the strike was over a meal allowance.

It was part of it, you said it yourself. They made a mistake of going on strike in the first place.

Hilly Bill

cdebru wrote: »

Exactly, which is what I said before trim the wastage in the company, then come looking for reductions in staff wages if you are still in trouble. No BE management want to keep the sponsorship of the womens football league, christmas on ice, christmas panto, the cork city marathon for example and cut their staff wages first.

The place is top heavy with Regional, Area, Divisional, Operations managers, but of course turkeys don't vote for christmas so they carefully avoid having anyone point the finger and asking are all these managers really needed.

What if they decided that they had too many drivers and office staff, would you still agree with trimming the wastage in the company or are drivers exempt from this or would you be out on strike again?
From what i gather is that you are all in favour of cuts in the company so long it doesnt effect you.

cdebru

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What if they decided that they had too many drivers and office staff, would you still agree with trimming the wastage in the company or are drivers exempt from this or would you be out on strike again?
From what i gather is that you are all in favour of cuts in the company so long it doesnt effect you.

They did that in 2010, 250 staff went mostly drivers.