land permission

tomtucker81

Howdy,
just a quick question to ye out there.
I have got permission on a lot of land from the farmer. There is rabbit, fox, pheasant and duck in places on the lands.
I noticed at some gateways there was a sign for a gun club, there are three clubs on different parts of his land(he has different parcels of land in different areas). I asked him about this and was told by the farmer "you've as much right as them to shoot on my land. "
Now I happened to meet some people that I know are members of the clubs and was generally chatting with them.
I mentioned non club members getting permission to shoot in fields and was told that "our lads will block them in and call the guards. " another fella said he would deflate tyres on anyones vehicle he found there.

Very interesting approaches from these people. While I wouldn't want to upset any locals, I am currently on the land on my days off work getting rabbits and foxing. (Once/twice a week.) Also decoy ing pigeon at farmers request. Ive not met one other person on the land doing this. The farmer is so far delighted every time I go out.

So basically, come the autumn and winter when I intend hunting game, am I likely to encounter the gun club members suddenly in the fields and what can I do to prevent any unnecessary hassle?

aaakev

If they give you any **** In the nicest way possible tell them to fcuk right off and if they touch your car call the guards. I wouldnt entertain them as you have been told by the man who owns the land you can be there. If they have a problem let them take it up with him.

I always have to laugh at the club menbers who swan around during the season like they own the place but you would never see them out to control vermin :rolleyes: iv met these types shootimg with friends on their club lands

juice1304

Just ignore them, I would have my phone handy if they start threatening you all modern phones have a dictaphone function and usually video too.
Unless the farmer has written somewhere that he has given them the sporting rights there is nothing they can do. If they do anything tell the farmer i doubt he will tolerate it if you are the one helping him by doing the vermin control.

dodderangler

I've met w4nkers like them a few times
Laugh at them and walk away also might help to get their reg off their cars if something g does happen your car
Also if you have permission off of the farmer who owns the land then you've more right to be there than them
Half the people who shoot his land he probably has never met but are part of the gun club so believe its their right to just shoot his land and not be bothered to even introduce themselves
Least he knows you face to face and you had decency to introduce yourself

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

tomtucker81

draiochtanois wrote: »

And this guy gets a licence for a gun?

I thought the exact same thing too!! Classy individual.

littlevillage

Lads,

Interesting topic.

First to declare my own interest : I am a land owner myself and detest all so-called "hunters" as they rarely ask for permission to come onto privately owned land, knock walls and leave spent cartridges all over the place.

But getting back to the point in discussion... If you check out the law in this area .. (I did a cursory check some time ago).. I believe the Land owner has the right to allow/block access as he owns the land, but the game belongs to the state .. who delegate this to regional authorities who in turn grant Gun clubs the licenses to hunt on particular land areas. Gun Clubs pay for a license and their members pay to be part of a Gun Club.

Whether or not you are shooting 'game' is probably the real question here. Pigeons, Crows, Badgers, Rats etc are not classed as game and can be shot by anybody with the land owners permission. But Pheasant, Duck, Fox, Deer etc (not sure about rabbit/hare) would be considered game and can only be shot by Gun Club members on their allocated piece of land at certain times of the year. You would probably do well to ask those Gun Club guys the exact details .. before an ugly incident might happen some day...as I think the Gun club members might be well within their legal rights to kick you out of a piece of property or even take legal action against you if it was proven you were 'poaching' game on their turf.

Maybe a Gun Club member would care to comment here ??

juice1304

littlevillage wrote: »

Whether or not you are shooting 'game' is probably the real question here. Pigeons, Crows, rats badgers etc are not classed as game and can be shot by anybody with the land owners permission. But Pheasant, Partridge, Fox, Deer etc (not sure about rabbit/hare) would be considered game and can only be shot by Gun Club members on their allocated piece of land at certain times of the year. You would probably do well to ask those Gun Club guys the exact details .. before an ugly incident might happen some day...as I think the Gun club members might be well within their legal rights to kick you out of a piece of property or even take legal action against you if it was proven you were 'poaching' game on their turf.

Maybe a Gun Club member would care to comment here ??

That is wrong.
They have no right to kick you off the land only the land owner or the one in charge of the sporting rights has the authority. If you have a hunting licence for deer etc you can hunt anywhere you have permission. Also fox are vermin as are rabbits
And you don't need to be in a gun club to get a hunting licence either.

aaakev

littlevillage wrote: »

Lads,

Interesting topic.

First to declare my own interest : I am a land owner myself and detest all so-called "hunters" as they rarely ask for permission to come onto privately owned land, knock walls and leave spent cartridges all over the place.

But getting back to the point in discussion... If you check out the law in this area .. (I did a cursory check some time ago).. I believe the Land owner has the right to allow/block access as he owns the land, but the game belongs to the state .. who delegate this to regional authorities who in turn grant Gun clubs the licenses to hunt on particular land areas. Gun Clubs pay for a license and their members pay to be part of a Gun Club.

Whether or not you are shooting 'game' is probably the real question here. Pigeons, Crows, Badgers, Rats etc are not classed as game and can be shot by anybody with the land owners permission. But Pheasant, Duck, Fox, Deer etc (not sure about rabbit/hare) would be considered game and can only be shot by Gun Club members on their allocated piece of land at certain times of the year. You would probably do well to ask those Gun Club guys the exact details .. before an ugly incident might happen some day...as I think the Gun club members might be well within their legal rights to kick you out of a piece of property or even take legal action against you if it was proven you were 'poaching' game on their turf.

Maybe a Gun Club member would care to comment here ??

I think you should go and check again because thats all wrong....

Badgers are also a protected spieces and defo cannot be shot by anyone except under a special licenced cull

wexfordman2

littlevillage wrote: »

Lads,

Interesting topic.

First to declare my own interest : I am a land owner myself and detest all so-called "hunters" as they rarely ask for permission to come onto privately owned land, knock walls and leave spent cartridges all over the place.

Sorry to hear that, in my experience, most hunters stick to shooting on lands with permissions only. They have a keen interest inmaking sure not to piss off landowners, and gun clubs etc, generally spend a lot of time looking after pest control, preservation, game release etc. You do get chancers in all walks of life though.

littlevillage wrote: »

But getting back to the point in discussion... If you check out the law in this area .. (I did a cursory check some time ago).. I believe the Land owner has the right to allow/block access as he owns the land, but the game belongs to the state .. who delegate this to regional authorities who in turn grant Gun clubs the licenses to hunt on particular land areas.

Thats not correct, the owner of the hunting rights is the person who has the final say in who is allowed to shoot game on their land. The game of course must be in season, and in relation to deer, you must have a deer licence.

Gun clubs are not granted licences to shoot by any regional authorities, they are given permission for their members to shoot by the landowner.

littlevillage wrote: »

Gun Clubs pay for a license and their members pay to be part of a Gun Club.

No, thats not the case at all. You may be confusing this with leases for deer hunting on coilte lets etc.

littlevillage wrote: »

Whether or not you are shooting 'game' is probably the real question here. Pigeons, Crows, Badgers, Rats etc are not classed as game and can be shot by anybody with the land owners permission.

Badgers cannot be shot,end of story. Pigeons also have a season, and as a rule can only be shot out of season if they are causing harm to crops etc.

littlevillage wrote: »

But Pheasant, Duck, Fox, Deer etc (not sure about rabbit/hare) would be considered game and can only be shot by Gun Club members on their allocated piece of land at certain times of the year.

Rabbit has no season, fox is not game :-)

Any of the animlas you listed above can be shot (in season for those that have a season), by anyone who has permission to hunt on the land, that can include gun club members and non gun club members,

littlevillage wrote: »

You would probably do well to ask those Gun Club guys the exact details .. before an ugly incident might happen some day...as I think the Gun club members might be well within their legal rights to kick you out of a piece of property or even take legal action against you if it was proven you were 'poaching' game on their turf.

The only person I would be asking is the landowner, end of story. Now gun club members may well be peed off at it, and it can be unfair, particularly when gun clubs invest huge amounts of time and money in pest control, preservation, and game release etc, it is understandable how they could be annoyed, or attempt to give the impression that they have the over riding say in the matter, but they do not.

dodderangler

Gun club member have fcuk all right to kick you off the land if you have permission to shoot it from landowner
Gun club member I'm sure are or should be aware that they are not the only ones allowed to shoot on the land if that is the case
Now if the landowner tells the gun club that no one other than them are allowed shoot the land then they can challenge the person shooting the land ( meaning stop and ask questions ) but even then cannot kick you off it
They can call the landowner or Garda but end of story cannot kick you off the land and certainly cannot do any damage to that persons property ie car tyres
Standing with a gun or two does not make them the law!!!!!!

deerhunter1

juice1304 wrote: »

Just ignore them, I would have my phone handy if they start threatening you all modern phones have a dictaphone function and usually video too.
Unless the farmer has written somewhere that he has given them the sporting rights there is nothing they can do. If they do anything tell the farmer i doubt he will tolerate it if you are the one helping him by doing the vermin control.

Correct record everything said specially if it is threatening, every club has these type of dick heads

valerossi

Tell them to fly lad f***ing old fools regarding vermin its fair game as far as i no. These type of people are only seen on sunny weekends and for a week in September and November. And if they touch your property you have the gardi or the farmer sort it. I ran into men with a club before and he saidhe'd have my firearm i simple responded well then ill have your teeth then, end of story but im much wiser these days:-)

Nino Brown

tomtucker81 wrote: »

I mentioned non club members getting permission to shoot in fields and was told that "our lads will block them in and call the guards. " another fella said he would deflate tyres on anyones vehicle he found there.

The guards would love that, a load of guys who own guns trying to intimidate someone who was legally hunting. The guards would likely come out alright, and confiscate every one of their guns.

Cass

The lads have corrected all the incorrect info, but on the specifics of licensing and sporting rights i thought i would add my little bit.

littlevillage wrote: »

(I did a cursory check some time ago).. I believe the Land owner has the right to allow/block access as he owns the land, .......

The land owner and person with sporting rights are not necessarily exclusive.

• If the land owner works the land and maintains sporting rights then no one may enter the lands with his/her permission.
• If the land owner has leased out the land the person leasing the land can only give permission to another party if the contract/lease agreement specifically states the person leasing the land gets sporting rights with the lease otherwise the sporting rights stay with the land owner, and the person leasing MAY NOT give permission to shot the lands.
• If a gun club has bought/signed for sporting rights of whomever holds the sporting rights (person leasing or land owner) then they have the authority to expel people from the lands. If they only have permission then they have no right to expel anyone else with the same permission they received.
• If the individual got the sporting rights from whomever held them, and the gun club did not then the individual can actually have the gun club removed from the lands.

The key point here is the difference between sporting right & permission. Also who held the sporting rights in the first place, and have they the authority to pass on sporting rights/permission to the people involved.

......... but the game belongs to the state .. who delegate this to regional authorities who in turn grant Gun clubs the licenses to hunt on particular land areas. Gun Clubs pay for a license and their members pay to be part of a Gun Club.

As was already said this is wrong. Here is why.

The only animal (Wild animal under the law) that requires a separate license to hunt is Deer (not counting foreshore license, etc). All other wild animals/birds that have a season are covered under the firearms license you are granted from An Garaí. The old licenses used to have this printed on the reverse but the newer ones do not. It was a point of contention until it was clarified that while the new licenses do not have this authorisation on the reverse it is implied with each successful granting of a firearm license.

All other species not listed under the Wildlife act or here are not protected, do not have a season, and can be shot all year round or under derogation. Meaning once you have a gun license you are covered. Gun clubs pay into the NARGC. The NARGC are a representative group of regional gun clubs, and do not have the power or authority to grant hunting licenses or amend/change any laws. So paying into them only covers their members under a compensation fund. There are more benefits, but nothing that in any way comes close to what you are saying they do.

.....as I think the Gun club members might be well within their legal rights to kick you out of a piece of property or even take legal action against you if it was proven you were 'poaching' game on their turf.

The only legal right they would have is if they have the sporting rights as outlined above. If not then they are guests on the land exactly like every other individual granted the same permission. Hence no legal right to sue/claim, and irrespective of who owns the sporting rights nothing excuses the kind of comments the OP said were relayed to him.

Ghost.

You should just ignore them if you have permission to shoot the land. Keep on good terms with the land owner and if you ever have an incident with any tools record it on you phone as mentioned above and report it to the guards. But more importantly report what happened to the land owner, you would probably find he would take a very dim view of it and the gun club might end up losing their permission to shoot his land if that's how they are behaving. It has been known to happen.

tomtucker81

'nothing excuses the kind of comments the OP said were relayed to him.'

They actually made me think why would I bother joining their clubs if that's their attitude.

Anyway, glad to see the majority of responses are along the same train of thought as me, I have permission, its not exclusive, but there are no sporting rights given to anyone or any club, only permission.

And seeing as I seem to be the only one actively after vermin there, I seem to be doing the clubs jobs for them!!

philbk

There are two sides to every storey. If a gun club is releasing game on land they have permission on, it is unfair for someone who has neither put any of their own time or money into rearing that game to come and shoot it. They may well be within their rights lawfully but morally they shouldnt. In most cases there would be little or no game to shoot without the efforts of the game rearing done by gun clubs. Many land owners do not appreciate the effort put in by gun clubs rearing game and for this reason often give hunting permissions freely to anyone who asks. I say all of this as someone who has been hunting for more than 20 years but only joined a gun club last year. Over the years I always avoided shooting on gun club lands there was always so much other land available.

sniperman

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

+++++++1

Cass

philbk wrote: »

Many land owners do not appreciate the effort put in by gun clubs rearing game and for this reason often give hunting permissions freely to anyone who asks. .

The majority of farmers, and land owners i know don't care about game on their land. They would not thank you for breeding pheasants, etc. as it is of no financial (or any) benefit to them. One farmer even told us specifically NOT to have any pens on or near his land. He said it only encouraged vermin such as foxes/mink, and he didn't want them around.

I understand what you are saying however most, if not all the clubs, i know allow/expect a loss of birds from them moving into other clubs lands, individuals with permissions on the same lands, etc. As we are guests on these lands (do not hold the sporting rights) we have to accept a certain amount of loss each year. That or pack up the club, and every man for himself. In which case there would be no game within a year or two. So out of both those options i would pick the small loss of nothing at all.

As for breeding them. There are some 45-50 lads in my club. Out of them 4 of us do all the work from building pens, breeding, rearing, releasing, etc. The others don't even pick up a gun during the off season to do vermin control or help out during the summer months when we spend some time going around repairing any damage to fencing, gates, etc. So how are they any different from the individuals that are not members of the club? Other than a small fee there is none. In fact some of the individuals do a lot of the vermin control because they enjoy the shooting. Whatever it's for. For their part i would not cause a stink over a few birds each year. Probably be a different story if these individuals were creaming the entire years brood, but as that is not happening i would not begrudge a lad a few birds.

Plus as some of these individuals are around longer than i'm alive chances are if i get mouthy, and complain the club could loose out as "Paddy" has been shooting the same lands for 40+ years. My bigger concern is the guys from neighbouring clubs that "forget" the boundaries, and are shooting our birds. One such club is too big. They have slightly more land than we do, but have over 150 members. For weeks leading up to the start of the season we are flat out trying to post signs informing people of the boundaries of the clubs to little effect.

Kat1170

Cass wrote: »

As for breeding them. There are some 45-50 lads in my club. Out of them 4 of us do all the work from building pens, breeding, rearing, releasing, etc. The others don't even pick up a gun during the off season to do vermin control or help out during the summer months when we spend some time going around repairing any damage to fencing, gates, etc. So how are they any different from the individuals that are not members of the club? Other than a small fee there is none. In fact some of the individuals do a lot of the vermin control because they enjoy the shooting. Whatever it's for. For their part i would not cause a stink over a few birds each year. Probably be a different story if these individuals were creaming the entire years brood, but as that is not happening i would not begrudge a lad a few birds.

Unfortunately that seems to be true for most clubs :(

.17hmr

It might be better to get your permission black and white that way you have it on paper .Just thinking out loud.

tomtucker81

I'd actually have no problem getting involved in helping with pens and rearing etc, and certainly don't mind doing vermin control.
But I could not do it for a club where there are numerous people that don't contribute to the work.
As it stands, I believe I do help the clubs unbeknownst to them, in the vermin control that I do on the land. As I previously said, I've yet to see any of them out doing so.

tomtucker81

.17hmr wrote: »

It might be better to get your permission black and white that way you have it on paper .Just thinking out loud.

Have it!!

dodderangler

I've ran into some dickheads before and if they had a problem with me there I'd simply say alright fine you don't mind if we walk up to (say farmers name ) his house and we have a chat there with him
Ran into a few lads that left the club that is in the land and they left for the reason that they do all the rearing and looking after them and no one helps but no problem shooting the land come November
Cowboys ted , flipping cowboys

.17hmr

Not a lot any one can do they might be a bit pissed if you were shooting game bird but they would get over that .they might even ask you to join thir club either way happy hunting

philbk

This thread started with a major slagging off of gun clubs trying to protect the game they rear. I can see both sides. But there are far too many hunters out there who want to take,take,take and put nothing back. The type you meet on November 2 who tell you they shot 20 cocks on opening day. They will shot every single bird that gets up in front of them. At least in gun clubs game is reared and bag limits exist to try and ensure hunting for everyone up to January 31. How many hunters with permission to hunt over land also hunted over by the local gun club will observe bag limits?? Few if any!

tomtucker81

I didnt start the thread for the purpose of slagging anyone or any club or organisation.

I started it to see what other people thought of or would do in the situations outlined, or what their attitudes were. Be they single hunters or members of a club.

I am aware of people who are not members of clubs and happily shoot away at any game. I also know people that do leave cartridges (basically litter at that stage) behind them. I certainly do not agree with this behaviour.

I do agree with the previous post, to a point. People who shoot everything in sight are not beneficial to anyone. I may not be in a club but I certainly understand the need to not overshoot an area, and that restraint in this matter benefits the game and hunters.

of course not everyone sees it this way, but I for one certainly recognise it.

Again, no intention was there at the start or anywhere for clubs to be slagged.

Robotack

phifarmer535498 wrote:

There are two sides to every storey. If a gun club is releasing game on land they have permission on, it is unfair for someone who has neither put any of their own time or money into rearing that game to come and shoot it. They may well be within their rights lawfully but morally they shouldnt. In most cases there would be little or no game to shoot without the efforts of the game rearing done by gun clubs. Many land owners do not appreciate the effort put in by gun clubs rearing game and for this reason often give hunting permissions freely to anyone who asks. I say all of this as someone who has been hunting for more than 20 years but only joined a gun club last year. Over the years I always avoided shooting on gun club lands there was always so much other land available.

Unfair or not, threatening to damage someones car etc is criminal scum bag behaviour. I'd love to hear them explain to a court how he can justify false imprisonment or criminal damage because the victims shooting habbits are "unfair". Likewise, unless the clubs are going to paint their birds a certain colour, they cannot proove ownership of wild birds.

The OP definitely did not engage in any slagging...

And finally I too was recently challenged when walking my dogs in a field where I have full permission to shoot away vermin or game regardless. The complete flute went on and on about "his" pheasants and also mentioned slashing tyres of non club members. He then started on waffling about how well he knows the farmer. You should have seen his face drop when I told him he was 2 years dead! (His son
Is now the farmer and gave me permission)

My father in law is a farmer and has now run the local gun clubs off all his land because of just this kind of idiot that I met. Someone actually had the balls to challenge his son (my bro in law) for shooting on HIS OWN FATHERS LAND.

I know tons of very respectable gun club members but the sport has no room for this borderline criminality and it seems to be getting a little too common.

Cass

@ Philbk - Gun clubs can be beneficial, but there is also an attitude of some people in gun clubs of entitlement. In other words i pay my dues so i can shoot whenever i like, and as often as i like with no commitment to help out.

A gun club should not, and does not, automatically carry an air of superiority. IOW just because you are in one does not mean you are better than those that are not. Trouble can come from both sides.

Besides i don't think the OP is using this thread as a gun club bashing exercise. Merely pointing out the attitude that some have that being a member of a gun club carries the right to bar any one else from the lands. Unaware that they are/can be more at risk of loosing the permissions than the people they threaten.

Lastly for a person as a gun owner to threaten anyone or damage to their property is a foolish move. As said above by someone the Gardaí would be waiting at their door as they drove home to seize the guns. Even if nothing happened you'd have a hell of a time trying to explain it. The Gardaí do not take threatening behaviour lightly were firearms are involved.

philbk

There is no excuse for the threatening behaviour of some gun club members and I am not condoning it - but there are two sides to the storey. The gun clubs work hard all summer to rear and release birds at considerable cost to ensure shooting for the members who have put in their money and hard work. If they didn't you would probably have shag all to shoot anyway within a few seasons! Don't be surprised then if they get irritated by other hunters who have put nothing in appearing on Nov 1 and shooting birds which are only there because of the efforts of the gun club.

dodderangler

I can understand how it'd be annoying if a lad was out shooting everyday for a month shooting pheasants that he did not help rear can be annoying but the annoying part is gun club members assuming they own the land and that no one else is allowed to shoot on it and this is basically what they mean when they say we're going to slash your tyres and so forth
This is probably main reason why most don't join gun clubs

homerhop

Every year we go to the farmers when we are seeking to re poster their lands/ put names in the paper and through general conversation find out if they have given permission to anyone else. We are lucky in a way that 90% of farmers dont want anyone on their lands unless they are in the gun club.
This season I got a call off one of the lads in the club to say there was someone shooting close to our release pen, I contacted the land owner who told me no one should be on his land unless the are in the club.
I contacted the guy who rang me and he approached the guy shooting and it was a fella who worked for years for the land owner. He walks around the fields once a year and hasn't even a dog and it was not worth making a fuss about.
I think a bit of cop on and common sense is a major factor, you will know the lads who are harmless and the lads who are fleecing areas.

lb1981

I do most of the work for my club when it comes to raising birds and releasing them.
In one of the spots i built a new pen and some release pens,which were also fitted out with new feeders, automatic drinkers with a fresh water supply,galvanized shelters and an electric fence ,that took me the guts of two weeks to build and came to a total cost of nearly 2000 euro.
In that pen i put 150 cock pheasants and 20 partridge that were held there from July till September that cost another 1200 or so euro between feed and the cost of buying the poults.
They were fed 3 times a week and while the feeding was taking place i would also check the 3 new Larson traps that were also bought at a cost of 250 euro.
Fox control would normally take place twice a week on that land .
When the birds were released into release pens they were all ringed on the leg to evaluate numbers shot at the end of the season.
Now lads tell me how anybody that shoots the odd rabbit and fox for a farmer has just the same rights as me to shoot that land.
Gun clubs spend serious amounts of time and money rearing birds and protecting them for any sham just to go in and and shoot all round him .
We can only shoot 2 days form 3 designated days with a 2 bird per day limit in our club ,this helps preserve numbers and keeps plenty of cocks on the land for breeding .
On the no pheasant shooting days i have often been on our land carrying out vermin control and came across non members filling their bags with birds and letting their dogs run a muck through our sanctuary's.
Just because the farmer might tell a lad he can have a shot dosnt make it alright for them to go in and fleece the place and even shoot our partridge ,that our own members dont even shoot.
I have to laugh at some of the advice given out on this thread by people who dont belong to clubs and dont give a damn about all the hard work that goes into game rearing and preservation.
I would have no problem going head to head with any body poaching my birds because if you dont spend thousands and put untold hours into raring them thats all your doing.

On another note we are all fully Insured ,most poachers are not.

lb1981

Our club is on its 3rd generation of shooter now, one of the founding members grandsons just became a full member after being a junior member for 3 years.
The members of our club are lads who give up a lot of time for their sport and education of younger members.
Time is taken to educate young or new members about game preservation ,vermin control and respect for the land and its owner along with firearm safety.

Most clubs just about break even every year and have to do a lot of fundraising to keep pens and equipment up to scratch.
Why do you think members flip the lid when they see lads shooting land that they put so much time effort and money in to, just think about that when lads are screaming at you, they are not doing it for the sake of it , it is genuine frustration.

One shot on kill

Lb 1981.

Just to say I'm not in a club but joining one this year.


I agree with your argument. Clubs do a lot of work to keep birds and release them.
If a bird went on to land that you don't have permission to shoot do you still think your the only one with the right to shoot it. I don't think so, but I reckon it might annoy the club members just as much.

Also the farmers that are giving permission to individuals it could be a case of there not happy with the amount of vermin control been done. Which is possible a big incentive for him to give the club the land in the first place. Maybe the farmer is thinking I need crows rabbits foxs etc shot ill give permission to who ever wants to shoot it and actually does it.

I do understand your position and argument all the same and agree if the clubs rear birds they should shoot them but if there let free well then it hard to be sure who shoots them.

aaakev

Lb i understand and agree with alot of what you said and to be fair your club sounds like a good one but one thing that bugs me is your sense of entitlement that you have more right to shoot there than a non club vermin shooter. You have no more right than anyone to shoot there plain and simple.

I dont shoot many pheasents, i mostly shoot foxes, rabbits, crows and pigeons but i shoot the odd pheasent, 3 last season i think, and a few ducks. If there was a gun club on the land i shoot i would have no problem shooting as i do now because i shoot enough vermin during the year. I would not fleese a club of birds but i would shoot one or two

One shot on kill

I understand both point but is it a felling of entitlement to shoot the birds or the land big difference I think.

lb1981

One shot on kill wrote: »

Lb 1981.

Just to say I'm not in a club but joining one this year.


I agree with your argument. Clubs do a lot of work to keep birds and release them.
If a bird went on to land that you don't have permission to shoot do you still think your the only one with the right to shoot it. I don't think so, but I reckon it might annoy the club members just as much.

Also the farmers that are giving permission to individuals it could be a case of there not happy with the amount of vermin control been done. Which is possible a big incentive for him to give the club the land in the first place. Maybe the farmer is thinking I need crows rabbits foxs etc shot ill give permission to who ever wants to shoot it and actually does it.

I do understand your position and argument all the same and agree if the clubs rear birds they should shoot them but if there let free well then it hard to be sure who shoots them.

No birds wander off and go on to land that other clubs have and vice a versa ,a lot of our birds go on to land that the club has no rights of the shooting and that is just part and parcel of it, they are fair game.
Look we all know land owners let friends and some local lads on to the land for the odd shot and noting can be done about that and them lads do be grateful to the clubs for raring birds on the land, my problem is lads just coming on to the land and shooting it sick every day and not giving a **** how much time and effort went into that land to hold birds.
When you are a member of a club next year you will see how frustrating it can be.

lb1981

aaakev wrote: »

Lb i understand and agree with alot of what you said and to be fair your club sounds like a good one but one thing that bugs me is your sense of entitlement that you have more right to shoot there than a non club vermin shooter. You have no more right than anyone to shoot there plain and simple.

I dont shoot many pheasents, i mostly shoot foxes, rabbits, crows and pigeons but i shoot the odd pheasent, 3 last season i think, and a few ducks. If there was a gun club on the land i shoot i would have no problem shooting as i do now because i shoot enough vermin during the year. I would not fleese a club of birds but i would shoot one or two

Well that is sensible and has been missing from this thread , look most clubs turn a blind eye to the odd bird being shot as long as it is like that and not raping the land,if you are the main vermin shooter on the land then maybe the club should not have that land as they are not doing enough and do not deserve it but as far as me having more rights than anybody else then yes i do think i have considering i do more work than anybody else on the land and pay a hell of a lot more money for that right.

One shot on kill

lb1981 wrote: »

Well that is sensible and has been missing from this thread , look most clubs turn a blind eye to the odd bird being shot as long as it is like that and not raping the land,if you are the main vermin shooter on the land then maybe the club should not have that land as they are not doing enough and do not deserve it but as far as me having more rights than anybody else then yes i do think i have considering i do more work than anybody else on the land and pay a hell of a lot more money for that right.

Your obviously not doing more work than any one else on the land if the farmer has to let some one else in to take care of vermin. Your doing more with the birds alright no doubt about that.
The only rights ANYBODY has on the land is the invitation from the farmer. So note or less unless the farmer tells you.

I had to farmers one say don't shoot pheasants because there the clubs ( ok no problem there). And one said shoot what you like its his land and no one can say any different.

I also have a permission on land for this year and the farmer said straight out your the only one allowed shoot on that land in his eyes once I do enough.

lb1981

One shot on kill wrote: »

Your obviously not doing more work than any one else on the land if the farmer has to let some one else in to take care of vermin. Your doing more with the birds alright no doubt about that.
The only rights ANYBODY has on the land is the invitation from the farmer. So note or less unless the farmer tells you.

I had to farmers one say don't shoot pheasants because there the clubs ( ok no problem there). And one said shoot what you like its his land and no one can say any different.

I also have a permission on land for this year and the farmer said straight out your the only one allowed shoot on that land in his eyes once I do enough.

I have never said other lads shoot vermin on my permissions ,their is no need for them i well take care of it myself along with the other club members .My gripe is lads just coming in and shooting the land sick after lads putting months of work into that land.
Read my post above and you will see where i said that if a club is not taking proper care of vermin then they dont deserve to have the land

Lotharmike

Both sides of the debate here with very valid points,I shoot an area of land (vermin) nestled right between two gun clubs.I have had the pleasure of a lively debate with two individuals (gun club members) in relation to shooting their game birds.Just to add I have never, ever shot a pheasant not my thing.Tried explaining that to two lads spouting all types of crap .Ended with the usual pleasantries & parted ways ,I swore to shoot all the birds I could on the land until I read what actually goes into rearing the birds.Fully understand their point of view now although gun clubs need to get away from the secret society style of doing things including letting new blood join.Maybe they would get more land that way & new fresh ideas from the young guns.Some of the clubs portray a very elitist attitude that rub some lads up the wrong way,putting gun club signs on gates ,ditches ,trees adjacent to land they have no entitlement to whatsoever ,famous for it down my way.Just my two cents worth by the way not in a club anymore & I ain't that young anymore either.

valerossi

Well every where you go your gona find donkeys that just don't care about sustainability of stock and will shoot anything on sight but the original argument is the fact that gun clubs have no right to attempt to scare anyone off ground they have right to shoot regardless of how much work they have put in, unfair i no but i have been in a club but left due to work commitments and i have once and only once been approached by an irate members who didn't no me and attempted to intimidate me (it backfired on them in a big way) i or no respectful man would accept threats of any kind towards them, however anyone that shoots game has a duty to respect everyone that puts so much effort into rearing theses birds by not plundering the stock.

One shot on kill

lb1981 wrote: »

Well that is sensible and has been missing from this thread , look most clubs turn a blind eye to the odd bird being shot as long as it is like that and not raping the land,if you are the main vermin shooter on the land then maybe the club should not have that land as they are not doing enough and do not deserve it but as far as me having more rights than anybody else then yes i do think i have considering i do more work than anybody else on the land and pay a hell of a lot more money for that right.

This post.
It's also were you say you have more rights than anybody else.
You don't.
Unless the farmer gives you exclusive rights. But in the case of this tread he has permission so the club members have no more rights than the op.

lb1981 wrote: »

I have never said other lads shoot vermin on my permissions ,their is no need for them i well take care of it myself along with the other club members .My gripe is lads just coming in and shooting the land sick after lads putting months of work into that land.
Read my post above and you will see where i said that if a club is not taking proper care of vermin then they dont deserve to have the land

Look there is no doubt a lot of work go into the game for the gun club and its a bit unfair for the farmer to be letting every one out, but the clubs need to approach the farmer and see if they can come to some sort of comprimise.

Lotharmike

I think you hit the nail on the there if the clubs let in some new lads when possible. They would cut away some of these arguments because more lads would understand and respect the work and effort. Also the club would be generating more money and helping hands.

jellybaby21

Alot of the land our club has ,the farmers allow others to shoot on too. Not much we can do about it but lately it is pissingme off. Between Larsen traps been smashed and call birds released. Now I wouldn't think that is other hunters but now this week the springs from some of our feeders have been taken so I would put that down to some scumbag taking them for their own feeders? So I can understand why some lads in clubs don't like others on club land.

One shot on kill

That type of **** is not on to be fair.

Cass

jellybaby21 wrote: »

So I can understand why some lads in clubs don't like others on club land.

I understand this and can agree with it having been involved from the ground up in a club. So i know he expenses involved.

For purely arguments sake unless the club can somehow manage to get sporting rights it's open land. So while the gun club may be on it it's not essentially their land.

Before anyone asks, yes it pisses me off to see others clearing the place out, but i would in no way allow this to justify threatening or intimidating other non club members.

I am lucky in that our club is small because of actual number of shooters as opposed to us limiting the amount that are members. The few non members go out at most once a week, and if they get a bird they do, if not they don't care. I realise that other clubs suffer much greater losses, and i am not trying to explain it away, but if the land owner/farmer is granting permissions to others not in the club there is nothing you can legally do to stop them.

The only solution is to gain the sporting rights. This gives you a legal position to refuse entry, and police the lands. I know of one club my cousin is a member of that done this, but at a cost. They pay the farmer for the rights yearly, and agreed to a minimum level of vermin control, etc. Seems to work for them. It resembles a syndicate more than a club. However going down that road may set a precedent for other clubs.

lb1981

There is no elitist lads in our club just working class lads, i know the types though that dress in tweed and look down on beaters and picker ups in shoots.
We have let new members in and carry out a stringent venting test to make sure they are suitable.We closed the doors a few years back when it became evident with the new 10 page application it was easier to be in a club when applying.
A couple of years back in the bad snow we went out and bought bags and bags of wheat and waded through fields of knee high snow to put feeding out to make sure birds dont starve.
We also stopped all shooting on the land ,while we we out putting feeding down we came across non members shooting the land how sporting of them to be out shooting half starved birds .
I dont think lads on here understand the rules with in a club and with in a game council.
If our club has the shooting rights on a patch of land and a land owner sells up another local club can not just come in and take that land the original club has to be given the right to speak to the new land owner first.
If a club has spent 20 odd years carrying out vermin control ,crop protection and game preservation on a piece of land then yes they certainly have more right than anybody else to shoot that land,these "wild " pheasants that lads are on about shooting are the fruit of years and years of game preservation they dont just appear on the land.
How can anybody say they have equal rights to shoot a piece of land when they dont contribute even half as much as the club members do ,shooting the odd fox and a few crows gives you little right to shoot anything in my book.But i want to make myself clear i dont condone threatening behavior to lads ,well if they are smashing your traps thats a different matter , something we have suffered as well

lb1981

Cass wrote: »

I understand this and can agree with it having been involved from the ground up in a club. So i know he expenses involved.

For purely arguments sake unless the club can somehow manage to get sporting rights it's open land. So while the gun club may be on it it's not essentially their land.

Before anyone asks, yes it pisses me off to see others clearing the place out, but i would in no way allow this to justify threatening or intimidating other non club members.

I am lucky in that our club is small because of actual number of shooters as opposed to us limiting the amount that are members. The few non members go out at most once a week, and if they get a bird they do, if not they don't care. I realise that other clubs suffer much greater losses, and i am not trying to explain it away, but if the land owner/farmer is granting permissions to others not in the club there is nothing you can legally do to stop them.

The only solution is to gain the sporting rights. This gives you a legal position to refuse entry, and police the lands. I know of one club my cousin is a member of that done this, but at a cost. They pay the farmer for the rights yearly, and agreed to a minimum level of vermin control, etc. Seems to work for them. It resembles a syndicate more than a club. However going down that road may set a precedent for other clubs.

You wouldn't believe how much that is happening now.

One shot on kill

Well 20 odd years as you say working the land don't forget 20 odd years the farmer has been letting you use his land so your whole club can get and retain there firearm licenses.
Would you express those views to the land owner I don't think So.

Like be fair ye you put a lot of work into birds if lads are shooting them, then just release them were you know the lads can't go. ( easyer said than done I know )

Just to say the snow was hard for all hunters FairPlay for putting in the effort. The world will always have wasters and takers.