300,000 emigrated in past 4 years

Caliden

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0509/391211-emigration-report/

Over one quarter of Irish households have seen a close family member emigrate in the last two years.

Half of those aged between 18 and 24 have considered emigrating.

Four out of ten adults aged between 25 and 34 have also considered leaving the country.

...

In the last four years, over 300,000 people have emigrated from Ireland, four out of ten of them were aged between 15 and 24.

The survey doesn't mention how many of these were permanent emigrations or if they were just 1 year Oz breaks which seems to be the 'cool' thing to do these days.

I moved to Boston on a 1 year J1 graduate visa and was offered a H1 visa but turned it down. 1 year was enough as I never intended on staying but if I was offered a well paying job in the future I would definitely consider it.

I think this survey might explain why the rate of unemployment is decreasing...

donvito99

So are real unemployment rate is closer to 700,000? jebus

G Power

this is fcuking sick!!

G Power

donvito99 wrote: »

So are real unemployment rate is closer to 700,000? jebus

for all those keeping their head down this is what your silence is getting you

mikehammer67

15?
bit young to be emigrating

SeaFields

donvito99 wrote: »

So are real unemployment rate is closer to 700,000? jebus

not forgetting all the unemployed people on various government schemes that takes them off the official live registar.

Steve O

I'd love to but I've fcuk all money or qualifications.

Even though I'm in a job.

hooradiation

G Power wrote: »

this is fcuking sick!!

Wait...sick as in awesome?

Because that many people having the drive to make such a change is pretty impressive, I'll give you that.

Wicklowandy

If we reported employment correctly and didn't engage in spin, our rate is right up there with Spain.


These "green shoots" that Brian Lenihan spoke of are a long time coming:)

Caliden

SeaFields wrote: »

not forgetting all the unemployed people on various government schemes that takes them off the official live registar.

I think that's the part I find hilarious.

The Gardai get slated for not reporting burglaries and yet the unemployment figures can be massaged by having those on jobs bridge removed from the overall unemployment figures.

Why can't they also give us the unemployment + job's bridge total ?

Wacker The Attacker

Caliden wrote: »

I think that's the part I find hilarious.

The Gardai get slated for not reporting burglaries and yet the unemployment figures can be massaged by having those on jobs bridge removed from the overall unemployment figures.

Why can't they also give us the unemployment + job's bridge total ?

The obvious answer is that statistics can be manipulated to suit your argument

sadie06

hooradiation wrote: »

Wait...sick as in awesome?

Because that many people having the drive to make such a change is pretty impressive, I'll give you that.

What about those that were driven to make that change? It is desperately sad for them. I personally know too many grandparents absolutely aching for the grandchildren they had built up a close relationship with.

No matter which way you spin it, this is a sad statistic.

jjbrien

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

The grass is rarely greener on the other side.

Id agree with you there im just back from been in Canada for 2 years. Looking at going to the states if I cant get a job here but wouldnt advise anyone to go to Canada.

kneemos

How many normally emigrate in a four year period and how many of the 300,000 came back?

snubbleste

How many of them are Irish?
According to the CSO, 87,100 emigrated in the year April 2011 to April 2012 and of those 53% (46,500) were Irish nationals

seamus

donvito99 wrote: »

So are real unemployment rate is closer to 700,000? jebus

Nope. That's an incorrect interpretation of the figures.

You assume that's 300,000 people straight off the labour force and out in the world, with no other changes.

If, for example, we also saw immigration of 300,000 in the same period, then it's a straight swap.

As it stands, the overall size of the labour force has been largely unchanged over the last 4 years, so the net migration must be quite small. There has been a population increase of ~220k people over 15 years of age, but the number of people in full time study has increase by 210k meaning that basically everyone who leaves school is going into further education rather than into the workforce. Which is a good thing.

SEPT 23 1989

We have turned a corner

periodictable

Those are the lucky ones. Better off out of this dump.
Joyce was right when he described Ireland as the sow that ate her farrow.

hooradiation

sadie06 wrote: »

What about those that were driven to make that change?

If that were a real thing, then the country would be empty.

It's a choice to leave, just as it's a choice to stay and hope things get better, the fact that so many are capable of making the harder choice of the two is probably a good thing.

The Backwards Man

It's terrible. Imagine that at no other time in the history of mankind have people left a small island economy to seek work in larger economies.

It's terrible, it really is. Where's my violin?

Celly Smunt

Lads,relax.The vast majority of them will be back.

sadie06

Jesus...there's a lot of heartless sentiments being expressed. Yes for some, emigration is a bold move. For many, it's a heart breaking move.

NegativeCreep

sadie06 wrote: »

What about those that were driven to make that change? It is desperately sad for them. I personally know too many grandparents absolutely aching for the grandchildren they had built up a close relationship with.

No matter which way you spin it, this is a sad statistic.

You know grandparents who are aching for their grandchildren to come home to a place with no jobs?
Rubbish.

The Backwards Man

sadie06 wrote: »

Jesus...there's a lot of heartless sentiments being expressed. Yes for some, emigration is a bold move. For many, it's a heart breaking move.

In 1850 it was a heartbreaking move, not in 2013.

I'd even argue that there is no such thing as emigration any more. Just longer commutes.

stefan idiot jones

jjbrien wrote: »

Id agree with you there im just back from been in Canada for 2 years. Looking at going to the states if I cant get a job here but wouldnt advise anyone to go to Canada.

Why not ? What's up with Canada ?

keithclancy

sadie06 wrote: »

Jesus...there's a lot of heartless sentiments being expressed. Yes for some, emigration is a bold move. For many, it's a heart breaking move.

Everyone has a choice, it's just sometimes the options are crappy.

If you go to another country purely to earn money you're on a loser from day 1.

davet82

but sure isn't it a lifestyle choice... :rolleyes:

Celly Smunt

stefan idiot jones wrote: »

Why not ? What's up with Canada ?

If he didn't like Canada he's going to be very disappointed with Canada senior.

seamus

The Backwards Man wrote: »

In 1850 it was a heartbreaking move, not in 2013.

I'd even argue that there is no such thing as emigration any more. Just longer commutes.

Actually that's a fair argument.

100 years ago, emigration was for life. Unless you made a fortune, you probably weren't coming back and the only contact you had with your family was by letter. If you could afford it.

Even 40 years ago, if you went further than Europe, you probably weren't coming back for a long, long time. You could call you family on the phone, but that's only of limited comfort.

These days, most people who emigrate will come home once a year, if not more. You can stay in almost constant visual and audio contact with your family (which of course isn't as good as a hug, but it helps). In addition to this, the internet and globalisation has made integration easier than ever. You can arm yourself with basically 99% of the knowledge you need to get started rather than having to land in off the boat and try to figure out what's going on.

This means that while emigration is certainly not the preferred option for most of us, the fact that it's no longer a life sentence means that it's an easier choice. If this was 1980, emigrating further than London wouldn't even be on my radar unless I was 2 days away from being homeless.
Now I would move to the states, at least in the medium-term, if I was in slight difficulty and the right opportunity presented itself.

Wicklowandy

The Backwards Man wrote: »

In 1850 it was a heartbreaking move, not in 2013.

I'd even argue that there is no such thing as emigration any more. Just longer commutes.

A 73 yr old man lives 100 yards from me. 6 years ago he had 5 children and 11 grandchildren living within a few miles. They've all had to leave for work.

So telling him that there's no such thing as emigration etc. doesnt really cut it.

A great experience for someone with few ties, or no care about the ties they have, for a couple of years, or forever.

I don't feel that your line of argument makes any attempt to look at the bigger picture:)

the groutch

Wicklowandy wrote: »

A 73 yr old man lives 100 yards from me. 6 years ago he had 5 children and 11 grandchildren living within a few miles. They've all had chose to leave for work.

fyp

The Backwards Man

Wicklowandy wrote: »

A 73 yr old man lives 100 yards from me. 6 years ago he had 5 children and 11 grandchildren living within a few miles. They've all had to leave for work.

So telling him that there's no such thing as emigration etc. doesnt really cut it.

A great experience for someone with few ties, or no care about the ties they have, for a couple of years, or forever.

I don't feel that your line of argument makes any attempt to look at the bigger picture:)

And I know a man who lives next door to his grandkids and rarely if ever sees them. So what?

People have migrated since the dawn of time, the biggest difference now is that the world is a lot smaller now than ever before.

SEPT 23 1989

One of the main reasons for me staying here is that my kids can see their grandparents as often as they like which i think is very important

i know this is not an option for everybody

FTA69

I'd even argue that there is no such thing as emigration any more. Just longer commutes.

You could but you'd be wrong.

Leaving Ireland to build a new life in a different country is emigration no matter what kind of spin you put on it. I left Ireland two years ago after coming out of college with absolutely zero prospects of getting a job. Having moved to London I worked a series of pub jobs, did an internship and finally landed a decent job with good career prospects and a decent wage. I've been home three times in that space (once every 6-9 months about).

Commuting is when you travel from one destination to another and return on a regular basis. London isn't just where I work. It's where many of my friends are, it's where my partner lives and where we live together. It's where my social life and where my boxing gym is. It's the place I will end up buying a property in. It's the city where we vote and pay our taxes. I save my money with an English bank. In other words, it's where I live.

London isn't a place I fly every few weeks to do a job, it may be only a short flight away but it's a vastly different place to Cork.

To compare years spend trying to build a career and a life abroad to driving from Kildare to Dublin is b*llocks to be honest. No matter how much Facebook or Skype you have the fact is that you are divorced from your previous life and that's a process that will only deepen the longer you are away. After a few years you will only have contact with a couple of friends and your immediate family. The notion that Skype or Ryanair keeps you as plugged in as if you were living at home is absurd.

Dempsey

Wicklowandy wrote: »

A 73 yr old man lives 100 yards from me. 6 years ago he had 5 children and 11 grandchildren living within a few miles. They've all had to leave for work.

So telling him that there's no such thing as emigration etc. doesnt really cut it.

A great experience for someone with few ties, or no care about the ties they have, for a couple of years, or forever.

I don't feel that your line of argument makes any attempt to look at the bigger picture:)

You'd think one of the children would have brought their elderly father with them.

gurramok

seamus wrote: »

As it stands, the overall size of the labour force has been largely unchanged over the last 4 years, so the net migration must be quite small. There has been a population increase of ~220k people over 15 years of age, but the number of people in full time study has increase by 210k meaning that basically everyone who leaves school is going into further education rather than into the workforce. Which is a good thing.

Latest stats
http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/population/2012/popmig_2012.pdf
Young adults have emigrated while the rest of us(kids and over 30's) get older.

Population of those aged between 15 and 30 has declined by 115k between 2006 and 2012

About 136k of that 300k who emigrated since 2009 were Irish.

pabloh999

The Backwards Man wrote: »

In 1850 it was a heartbreaking move, not in 2013.

I'd even argue that there is no such thing as emigration any more. Just longer commutes.

Thats pretty ridiculous!!

paddy147

Eamon Gilmore said in Leinster House this morning that hes helping the young people of Ireland to get jobs.

Sure you are Eamon.:rolleyes::pac:



It was put to him about 300,000 people gone from our shores,and many more who leave every week.


He just ignored that completely.:eek::mad:

The Backwards Man

FTA69 wrote: »

You could but you'd be wrong.

Leaving Ireland to build a new life in a different country is emigration no matter what kind of spin you put on it. I left Ireland two years ago after coming out of college with absolutely zero prospects of getting a job. Having moved to London I worked a series of pub jobs, did an internship and finally landed a decent job with good career prospects and a decent wage. I've been home three times in that space (once every 6-9 months about).

Commuting is when you travel from one destination to another and return on a regular basis. London isn't just where I work. It's where many of my friends are, it's where my partner lives and where we live together. It's where my social life and where my boxing gym is. It's the place I will end up buying a property in. It's the city where we vote and pay our taxes. I save my money with an English bank. In other words, it's where I live.

London isn't a place I fly every few weeks to do a job, it may be only a short flight away but it's a vastly different place to Cork.

To compare years spend trying to build a career and a life abroad to driving from Kildare to Dublin is b*llocks to be honest. No matter how much Facebook or Skype you have the fact is that you are divorced from your previous life and that's a process that will only deepen the longer you are away. After a few years you will only have contact with a couple of friends and your immediate family. The notion that Skype or Ryanair keeps you as plugged in as if you were living at home is absurd.

If you substituted Donegal for London in your post would you still consider it emigration?
To me, there is no difference.

eviltwin

I'd love to leave tbh. But my other half is the only one of his family still here and his mum is elderly so we feel under pressure to stay. I know his siblings worry about her and hate being away so the grass isn't greener for them.

paddy147

When a person HAS to leave their country to find work and a new life,then that is emmigration.

Whether its in Europe of the other side of the world...its emmigration.

The Backwards Man

paddy147 wrote: »

When a person HAS to leave their country to find work and a new life,then that is emmigration.

Whether its in Europe of the other side of the world...its emmigration.

Is it?

My brother works for a Swedish company, in China, and he lives in Brazil. He doesn't consider himself an emigrant.

paddy147

RTE Lunchtime News right now...


National Youth Council of Ireland Emmigration Poll






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emigration


Lack of employment or entrepreneurial opportunities
Lack of political or religious rights
Persecution or intolerance based on race, religion, sex or sexual orientation
Lack of freedom to choose religion, or to choose no religion
Shortage of farmland; hard to start new farms (historically)
Oppressive legal/political conditions
Struggling or Failing economy
Military draft, warfare
Famine or drought
Cultural fights with other cultural groups
Expulsion by armed force or coercion

jank

The vast majority of these are on temp visas with no prospect of staying unless of course they are in the EU.

Cody Pomeray

jank wrote: »

The vast majority of these are on temp visas with no prospect of staying unless of course they are in the EU.

because no Irish emigrants stay and work abroad without a visa?

Leftist

Wicklowandy wrote: »

A 73 yr old man lives 100 yards from me. 6 years ago he had 5 children and 11 grandchildren living within a few miles. They've all had to leave for work.

So telling him that there's no such thing as emigration etc. doesnt really cut it.

Why does it need to 'cut it'?

His grandchildren chose to emigrate. Unless they are of a vast minority of those who can't afford to live in ireland.

FTA69

The Backwards Man wrote: »

If you substituted Donegal for London in your post would you still consider it emigration?
To me, there is no difference.

No it would be migration because I'm moving to a different part of the same country. Emigration is migration which involves moving abroad.

Even if I did move from Cork to Donegal and settled down there that wouldn't be "commuting" as you called it so it's a moot point.

My aunt has lived here for over 20 years and has three children here. The notion that she is on an extended "commute" for two decades is nonsense.

FTA69

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

because no Irish emigrants stay and work abroad without a visa?

As well as the fact that those in skilled trades or certain professions in demand can get residence in Australia. Even those who aren't can get sponsored by a company if they're eager enough to get it done. I know plenty of people in Australia who are out there for the long haul.

Not everybody going there is interested in a year-long p*ss up in the Cock and Bull.

con___manx1

i have lived in canada and oz the last couple of years. im back home lookin for work at the moment. i dont want to leave again but i might have to.

desertcircus

The wrench of emigration is less brutal than it used to be, but it's not gone completely. I have three cousins who've moved to Canada; two have effectively become Canadian and don't expect to come back barring holidays. The third could very easily go that way. They can stay in touch with family, but it's not the same. For some people, that's not a problem, but there are huge numbers who find it a wrench. There are a thousand small differences, and they can add up to make a person feel very far from home.

Cody Pomeray

seamus wrote: »

As it stands, the overall size of the labour force has been largely unchanged over the last 4 years, so the net migration must be quite small.

And that itself is an unsound conclusion.

You don't know how many of the emigrants were part of the labour force. College graduates , school leavers, and even the unemployed who had given up looking for work would often not be included as being in the labour force.