Alan Shatter doing his job!!!

EURATS

oscarBravo wrote: »

Like I said, no basis for an intelligent conversation.

Well if it's not pro British gibberish...it can't be intelligent can it? We can't all hide behind boards.ie admin privileges..can we?

SeanW

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Well I would agree with you on the cowards issue.

But then an attempt to ascribe benevolent motivations to these men is just as intellectually gullible.

As honourable as anti-Fascism is, there is absolutely nothing to show that these men deserted out of anti-Fascism.

Congratulating someone for a motivation you do not know they had is about as thick as it gets.

I'm not disputing that soldiers deserted their (neutral) army, nor that this was not a crime. But all crimes have aggravating and mitigating factors.

And anyone who left, yes, deserted the Irish army to join the British army knew that this would have only one consequence for them personally - going to the front lines of the war, where there was a considerable likliehood of being killed or seriously injured. Good pay or not, I can't see anyone joining the BA during WWII for any reason except to fight the Nazis.

The question therefore, for those who deserted, is that of aggravation vs. mitigation. Again, I'm not disputing that those who left their posts to join the BA - technically - committed a crime.

What I feel though is that the mitigation, in this case their overwhelmingly good reason for desertion, outweighs the crime and the aggravating factors.

Cody Pomeray

Interesting

***un-scientific, non-technical, unapologetic, unacceptable to oscarbravo***

"National self loathing" AND [English speaking OECD Member State] per head of population in order of increasing order of hits:

██ United States of America: 0.0003

████ Australia: 0.003

████ Canada: 0.003

████ Britain: 0.003

████ New Zealand: 0.004

████████████ Ireland: 0.013

Cody Pomeray

SeanW wrote: »

I can't see anyone joining the BA during WWII for any reason except to fight the Nazis.

Hang, on you think there were 75 million allied forces who were only motivated to fight for a principle, including all of those Irish deserters ?


......

SeanW

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Hang, on you think there were 75 million allied forces who were only motivated to fight for a principle, including all of those Irish deserters ?


......

What other reason could one have for going head first into the front lines of a war with lots of fighting and killing?

Cody Pomeray

SeanW wrote: »

What other reason could one have for going head first into the front lines of a war with lots of fighting and killing?

Wait a minute you believe soldiers under active duty are always motivated by principle?

What an enormous co-incidence that they should converge together at the same place, same time, in utter agreement with their commanding officers and political heads of state.

There is not a puzzled enough emoticon.

Jawgap

Seanchai wrote: »

....They were traitors to this state. ......

Then the obvious question is why weren't they charged with treason under the Art 39 of the Constitution and the Treason Act 1939? Both were in force at the time. The fact is Ireland has never charged much less convicted anyone of treason, even during the 1970s and 1980s.

SeanW wrote: »

What other reason could one have for going head first into the front lines of a war with lots of fighting and killing?

Generally, soldiers fight for a lot of reasons - some are conscripted and not given a choice; some for reasons of principle and 'fair play'; some for ideological reasons; for monetary / economic reasons; a sense of adventure; because their mates are going.....etc

I'm all for those lads getting their pardon, but I think it's a mistake to assume they were all principled idealists fighting for freedom, I suspect a lot went because they wanted to see some action.

On a broader note, it might interesting to note how they were treated relative to other alleged deserters. We know by name who the 4900 or so absentees were who will benefit from this pardon but to my knowledge the State has never named never mind blacklisted personnel who absented themselves before, for example, a UN deployment?

Equally, it's arguable that the greatest test our Defence Forces ever faced was the so-called "Operation Armageddon" - the move to the border with the possibility of advancing to seize territory in Northern Ireland - literally outgunned and outnumbered they were expected to cross and launch surprise attacks in Northern Ireland.

Soldiers who absented themselves during this period were not named (to my knowledge) never mind blacklisted.

Scofflaw

EURATS wrote: »

Well if it's not pro British gibberish...it can't be intelligent can it? We can't all hide behind boards.ie admin privileges..can we?

Like any user of the forum, Admins or whatever will be, and have been, warned or sanctioned when it's required. Unlike certain users, they tend to desist from the behaviour in question.

More generally, posters are reminded that this is not AH, and to spare us the heavily over-used humorous images and clever nicknames.

moderately,
Scofflaw

EURATS

And now we have Shatter getting away with failure to give a specimen.
Must try the old asthma/way home from work excuse next time I am at a checkpoint.