Brady keeps excommunication threat hanging over abortion TDs

Obliq

Jernal wrote: »

That looks like a Minecraft reference. I don't get Minecraft.:(

Edit : Nevermind google be mi savior!

Was about to be helpful and say that's a creeper. It blows you up (according to youngest). Sigh, google beat me to it

muppeteer

Anybody see Enda fob off the Cardinals threat by saying "My book is the constitution, and the constitution is determined by the people."

Nice secular feck off for the Cardinals:), even if its from a FG that won't touch actual abortion rights with a barge pole. Oh well, small steps.

Video here: http://www.independent.ie/videos/irish-news/enda-kenny-responds-to-cardinals-abortion-comments-29243569.html

joseph brand

muppeteer wrote: »

Anybody see Enda fob off the Cardinals threat by saying "My book is the constitution, and the constitution is determined by the people."

Nice secular feck off for the Cardinals:), even if its from a FG that won't touch actual abortion rights with a barge pole. Oh well, small steps.

Video here: http://www.independent.ie/videos/irish-news/enda-kenny-responds-to-cardinals-abortion-comments-29243569.html

Enda made the Front Page of reddit

Sarky

Jesus, he actually looked quite statesmanlike in that clip. No humming and hawwing, no silly mistakes or shifty eyes. It actually looked like he had a backbone when it came to being ordered about by a priest.

Shame he's scared of upsetting the apple cart by doing anything other than the bare minimum, but at least it looked like he was determined to do that bare minimum in spite of any opposition.

joseph brand

I think this image deserves to posted.

(Don't let us down Enda)

Turtwig

GODDAMMIT! !
There I was with that cruel sadistic smile on my face ready to ban you for breaking the thread and frick you anyway you fixed the image size. Now who am I going to ban?

joseph brand

Jernal wrote: »

GODDAMMIT! !
There I was with that cruel sadistic smile on my face ready to ban you for breaking the thread and frick you anyway you fixed the image size. Now who am I going to ban?

Sorry to be so anal, but large images just annoy me.

kylith

Good to see him with a bit of backbone. Strange how some people will only stand up when they're backed into a corner; he should have been telling the religious lobbyists this from the get-go.

robindch

joseph brand wrote: »

I think this image deserves to posted.

It could have been phrased slightly better, but only just. The thought's what matters.

I wonder what their Lordships will do next?

UDP

Its great that the iona institute and the catholic church are picking this fight since they cannot win (not sure how they do not know this). They should have been delighted with how restrictive the actual law is that will be voted on. All this shows is that they don't give a f'uck what the people of this country want and I hope that is visible to many. I hope they up their fight further to make sure everyone sees.

Viper_JB

Ah well, hopefully this will aid detaching the state from the church. It does seem like they're determined to do as much damage as possible to freedom of choice and womens rights, although with how the current legislation is being proposed I'd feel the same about the politicians.

I would love to see what would happen if they do excommunicate half of the dail though, has the potential to be very entertaining and will almost definitely blow up in the church's face.
It feels somewhat similar although not as serious as the conditional aid being provided in 3rd world countries (provided no birth control is being used), like a 1st world implementation.

Penn

Serious question though I may be embarrassing myself by asking it:

Can action be taken against the church for essentially threatening politicians regarding a matter involving the Constitution? Surely there's something unlawful about an organisation attempting to influence politician's votes like this?

I worry that some politicians would be religious enough to change their vote under threat of excommunication. Now obviously, I seriously doubt the Government would take any action against them if such action did exist, but I'd be interested to know if this would fall under any bribery or threat laws regarding influencing the votes of a politician.

UDP

Penn wrote: »

Can action be taken against the church for essentially threatening politicians regarding a matter involving the Constitution? Surely there's something unlawful about an organisation attempting to influence politician's votes like this?

They are no different to any other lobby group so they are allowed to threaten. Maybe the new Regulation of Lobbying Bill 2013 might make a difference as it brings in regulation of lobby groups and will require registration of communications from lobby groups.

Viper_JB

Penn wrote: »

I worry that some politicians would be religious enough to change their vote under threat of excommunication. Now obviously, I seriously doubt the Government would take any action against them if such action did exist, but I'd be interested to know if this would fall under any bribery or threat laws regarding influencing the votes of a politician.

I dunno, I would say that any politician that would let that threat change their vote should be removed from their position as a representative of the people.

Bannasidhe

Is it wrong of me that I really, really, really hope Brady does excommunicate them?

The **** storm will be deliciously compulsive viewing.

Penn

Viper_JB wrote: »

I dunno, I would say that any politician that would let that threat change their vote should be removed from their position as a representative of the people.

Well, as much as I agree, no politician would acknowledge that it changed their vote. They'd likely say they had a change of heart themselves after considering the facts. But even if they're not overly religious, I could see some TDs worrying about how it would affect them in the eyes of some voters.

Galvasean

Penn wrote: »

Well, as much as I agree, no politician would acknowledge that it changed their vote. They'd likely say they had a change of heart themselves after considering the facts. But even if they're not overly religious, I could see some TDs worrying about how it would affect them in the eyes of some voters.

I can't help but feel that any politician who is fearful of losing these votes is overlooking the sea of evidence that shows that such views are a minority in this country.

the culture of deference

Penn wrote: »

I worry that some politicians would be religious enough to change their vote under threat of excommunication. Now obviously, I seriously doubt the Government would take any action against them if such action did exist, but I'd be interested to know if this would fall under any bribery or threat laws regarding influencing the votes of a politician.

Should religious beliefs be tolerated in our politicans.

I would want a system of elected government led by people who can actually think for themselves, and not depend on prayer and fictional fantasy, and aren't afraid of actually taking on a corrupt organisation like the rcc head on.

Viper_JB

the culture of deference wrote: »

Should religious beliefs be tolerated in our politicans.

I would want a system of elected government led by people who can actually think for themselves, and not depend on prayer and fictional fantasy, and aren't afraid of actually taking on a corrupt organisation like the rcc head on.

Belief's are fine, and I don't think it would be right to encourage anyone away from those beliefs as long as they're not hurting/destroying anyones lives. As far as I'm concerned a politician should be a walking representative of their electorate and their electorate's feelings and will, doesn't seem to happen though, most of them seem all too happy to get on in front of a reporter and tell them what they personally think is right or wrong, it's like they've missed the whole point.

magicbastarder

Penn wrote: »

Surely there's something unlawful about an organisation attempting to influence politician's votes like this?

Penn

^^^ Fair point

Though normally, it doesn't happen quite so publicly

Zombrex

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Is it wrong of me that I really, really, really hope Brady does excommunicate them?

The **** storm will be deliciously compulsive viewing.

Was thinking the same thing. If nothing more it would at least remind the public that the Catholic Church have such a ridiculous practice as excommunication.

What next, the gypsies are going to threaten to put a curse on TDs :pac:

VinLieger

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Is it wrong of me that I really, really, really hope Brady does excommunicate them?

The **** storm will be deliciously compulsive viewing.

Id be so jealous of all the politicians if he did

Bannasidhe

VinLieger wrote: »

Id be so jealous of all the politicians if he did

I know. They get all the bloody perks!

kylith

It still doesn't take them off the RCC's member's list though

Bannasidhe

kylith wrote: »

It still doesn't take them off the RCC's member's list though

But it could put Enda on that very exclusive list of Heads of State who publicly stood up to the RCC.

Somehow I doubt if he wants to be on a list with Henry VIII but the tactics being used by the RCC are pushing him that way. There is no way Enda, a man obsessed with how we are perceived in Europe, will want to be seen to abandon our (pretense) at democracy at the insistence of the RCC.
While I am no admirer of his, he does seem to have a poker up his ass inner steel when it comes to being pushed around in a domestic political context so this could get interesting...

One does wonder who is PR advising the RCC - they are nailing shut their own coffin!

VinLieger

kylith wrote: »

It still doesn't take them off the RCC's member's list though

FFS does anything do that anymore?

Bannasidhe

VinLieger wrote: »

FFS does anything do that anymore?

*peruses membership list*

Borgia, Rodrigo. check
Calvin, John. check
Hitler, Adolf. check
Luther, Martin. check
Tudor, Henry. check


Hmmmmm......

kylith

VinLieger wrote: »

FFS does anything do that anymore?

Nope. They just put a little asterisk beside your name to indicate you're a Bad Catholic.

Cabaal

It is a serious question and I'm very tempted try it,

If I write to the Vatican and brady outlining my full support for abortion legislation and the government bringing it in will they kick me out of the church?
Could this be used as another loop hole after they closed the whole countmeout.ie thing.

What exactly do you have to do to get kicked out?, clearly we know what won't do it (sexual abuse etc). If you directly abuse the pope in a letter and refuse to go to confession? :pac: