Slow uptake of Leap Card - would a minimum €3 cash fare on Dublin Bus help?

smash

eejoynt wrote: »

Leap is not aimed at the following

Five day week commuters
People who regularly take two buses to see their granny/ aunt /cousin etc

Every day I see the same people over and over on the bus and dart using their leap cards. Personally, I don't understand it as the fee is not that much of a discount and you're paying for it out of your net wages. You can get a month bus + rail ticket on the tax saver scheme for €142 a month pre tax and it's unlimited.

markpb

smash wrote: »

Every day I see the same people over and over on the bus and dart using their leap cards. Personally, I don't understand it as the fee is not that much of a discount and you're paying for it out of your net wages. You can get a month bus + rail ticket on the tax saver scheme for €142 a month pre tax and it's unlimited.

Not every company will offer taxsaver tickets to their employees and if you're in that situation, there's nothing you can do.

smash

markpb wrote: »

Not every company will offer taxsaver tickets to their employees and if you're in that situation, there's nothing you can do.

It takes a company 5 minutes to fill out a form online. I'd be surprised if a company refused to do it.

bk

smash wrote: »

It takes a company 5 minutes to fill out a form online. I'd be surprised if a company refused to do it.

Unfortunately many do.

Really it should be administered by the Revenue Department directly, along with the Cycle to Work scheme.

Dravokivich

AlekSmart wrote: »

I attach no blame to Wexford Bus,who operate a good service,but I'm afraid it does,yet again,demonstrate that the NTA really have little grasp of what a properly administered ITS could achieve for Public Transport as a whole....:rolleyes:

It's their product on the card. The leap card is merely acting as a means of validation with it. Why attach no blame onto them, for something that's theirs?

Although, it'll be interesting to see what further private operators will do with fares/tickets if they choose to be involved in the scheme.

markpb

smash wrote: »

It takes a company 5 minutes to fill out a form online. I'd be surprised if a company refused to do it.

Mine did for the first three years that I was here. Several people I know work for similar companies. I don't understand it but I'm not in a position to change it either.

LXFlyer

AlekSmart wrote: »

Sticking with Sticks & Carrots...I notice that the Wexford Bus LeapCard single fare carry a very meagre 85c discount ...and that the Weekly Leapcard Ticket has NO diIf this is what the NTA regard as a Carrot,then the NTA Stick is surely going to be something to behold ?

I attach no blame to Wexford Bus,who operate a good service,but I'm afraid it does,yet again,demonstrate that the NTA really have little grasp of what a properly administered ITS could achieve for Public Transport as a whole....:rolleyes:

markpb wrote: »

I'm not sure if there's any advantage to discounting tickets loaded on Leapcard over those loaded on paper. The paper form of tickets will (for DB and IR at least) disappear and Leap will be the only way to buy them - this is how it works in any other city I've been to.

On the other hand, I definitely agree that there should be a huge price difference between Leap and card for single trip tickets.

I agree Mark.

As regards prepaid season tickets - these already offer a discount. Why would a further discount be given? People already buy them.

In time I'd imagine that at the very least all CIE and LUAS weekly, monthly and annual tickets will only be available on LEAP, while I'd imagine that shorter period passes would still be available as paper tickets.

The discount part of LEAP will be applicable through pay as you go single trips, blended fares for multi-mode trips, and capping.

smash

lxflyer wrote: »

In time I'd imagine that at the very least all CIE and LUAS weekly, monthly and annual tickets will only be available on LEAP, while I'd imagine that shorter period passes would still be available as paper tickets.

The discount part of LEAP will be applicable through pay as you go single trips, blended fares for multi-mode trips, and capping.

There would be a lot involved with upgrading the leap systems to cater for long period passes as currently they only cater for single use.

LXFlyer

smash wrote: »

There would be a lot involved with upgrading the leap systems to cater for long period passes as currently they only cater for single use.

This is another integral phase of the project - again I point out that LEAP is a phased project.

At the moment auto-top up is being trialled, and capping is in operation on LUAS.

Later phases will see period passes added.

smash

lxflyer wrote: »

Later phases will see period passes added.

Which no doubt will be more expensive than the tax saver options.

I can't see how Leap could replace tax saver cards either. In that a Leap card can be used on a Luas, Bus or Dart. But the tax saver cards are restricted to the modes you chose when signing up. I know I wouldn't want to pay extra for a Leap card because I wouldn't be using say a Luas.

Dravokivich

Taxsaver is going to transfer to Leap, at some stage.

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/public-transport-services/integrated-ticketing/

More Options

A wide range of ticket options, such as annual and monthly tickets, will also be made available.

They are the only type of annual tickets avail.

Polar101

bk wrote: »

Interesting idea, but there would be a few problems with it:

I believe boarding would be slightly quicker and no need for a massive increase in ticket inspectors. Also just easier to use.

They use this system in Finland. Buses have two fares (within the city, or intercity), so you use button to choose which one you want. If you choose intercity, the machine will beep twice - so it is obvious which fare is chosen. Also, if you have a monthly ticket or similar loaded on your card, you just tag on without needing to press a button (just like when using Leap card for maximum fare on DB). There is no tagging off at all. Cash fares are ~25% more expensive than travel card fares.

The problems are that you need to know which button to press, as it's not very intuitive - not a problem for regular commuters. There are more ticket inspections, and as the buses are single deck, it's easier for the driver to remember who tries to cross the city border with the wrong ticket. But that is because the monthly tickets are cheap, so there would be less people using the single ticket fare. So that system might not work as well for Dublin Bus.

LXFlyer

smash wrote: »

Which no doubt will be more expensive than the tax saver options.

I can't see how Leap could replace tax saver cards either. In that a Leap card can be used on a Luas, Bus or Dart. But the tax saver cards are restricted to the modes you chose when signing up. I know I wouldn't want to pay extra for a Leap card because I wouldn't be using say a Luas.

Where are you getting this sort of nonsense from?

The taxsaver and period passes will be issued on a personalised LEAP card, which would replace the Dublin Bus ID and smartcard or Iarnrod Eireann smartcard which currently acts as ID for IE issued tickets.

Whether you choose to use the pay-as-you-go element for other modes not covered by your period pass will be entirely up to you.

The cost of issuing new cards would presumably be covered by the savings from not having to produce the current range of smartcards and tickets.

I fail to see where any additional cost comes into it?

smash

lxflyer wrote: »

Where are you getting this sort of nonsense from?

The Leap card is a one for all, top it up and use it where ever. The Tax saver yearly/monthly tickets are not.

etchyed

smash wrote: »

The Leap card is a one for all, top it up and use it where ever. The Tax saver yearly/monthly tickets are not.

You seem to have a quite fundamental misunderstanding of what Leap is intended to be, and what it's capable of. It can do both, or it will be able to, eventually.

smash

etchyed wrote: »

You seem to have a quite fundamental misunderstanding of what Leap is intended to be, and what it's capable of. It can do both, or it will be able to, eventually.

Al long as it's the same price, I don't really care.

LeftBlank

smash wrote: »

The Leap card is a one for all, top it up and use it where ever. The Tax saver yearly/monthly tickets are not.

I believe the current Irish Rail point-to-point smart cards also double up as ones that you can top up.

So, say your ticket is valid from Sallins to Heuston, then you can top it up and use it from Connolly to Bray (or wherever). The system is clever enough not to deduct credit when travelling from Sallins to Heuston.

A similar system could easily be used by Leap.

smash

LeftBlank wrote: »

I believe the current Irish Rail point-to-point smart cards also double up as ones that you can top up.

So, say your ticket is valid from Sallins to Heuston, then you can top it up and use it from Connolly to Bray (or wherever). The system is clever enough not to deduct credit when travelling from Sallins to Heuston.

A similar system could easily be used by Leap.

I don't know about the smart cards, as they're not issued through the tax saver monthly ticket option. You're issued with a generic monthly ticket.

LeftBlank

smash wrote: »

I don't know about the smart cards, as they're not issued through the tax saver monthly ticket option. You're issued with a generic monthly ticket.

I presume the plan is to get them moved over to Leap Card as well, in which case the scenario above would apply.

LXFlyer

smash wrote: »

The Leap card is a one for all, top it up and use it where ever. The Tax saver yearly/monthly tickets are not.

You have got this completely wrong.

The card will allow you to simultaneously:

1) Load up a period pass such as a monthly bus/rail ticket (at the appropriate normal price), allowing you unlimited travel as normal;

And

2) Allow a user to load the card up with cash to use as pay-as-you-go on other modes/operators, such as LUAS.

That's where one element of the "smart" card will enter the equation - it will know not to charge you anything on the bus or train or whatever your season ticket covers, and then charge pay-as-you-go on other modes, subject to the appropriate daily or weekly capping.

Whether you choose to do (2) will be entirely up to you.

As far as (1) is concerned the LEAP card will simply replace your current ticket.

rainbowdash

I believe the Oyster card is a copy of the Octopus card in Hong Kong. The Hong Kong version works on all sorts of things like vending machines, restaurants, shops, parking meters etc.

We have a long way to go.

AlekSmart

rainbowdash wrote: »

I believe the Oyster card is a copy of the Octopus card in Hong Kong. The Hong Kong version works on all sorts of things like vending machines, restaurants, shops, parking meters etc.

We have a long way to go.

I'm afraid Rainbowdash,thats not where we are going at all....never was

ronano

It takes as long as cash, you have to rely on the driver, they mess up constantly and the savings you over cash are wiped out. That's the problem of the leap card, no faith in it

JayRoc

ronano wrote: »

It takes as long as cash, you have to rely on the driver, they mess up constantly and the savings you over cash are wiped out. That's the problem of the leap card, no faith in it

Bingo. All the theoretical savings in the world won't make a difference if the public perception of the Leap card is that it's inconvenient (as much as cash...so why bother?) and that when things go wrong, which is a lot, it's harder to spot and harder to rectify.

bk

ronano wrote: »

It takes as long as cash, you have to rely on the driver, they mess up constantly and the savings you over cash are wiped out. That's the problem of the leap card, no faith in it

In fairness, the leap card validators have been down so many times for me on Dublin Bus and the driver has just waved me on for a free ride that the Leap card has easily paid for itself by now

However that can't be good for Dublin Buses finances.

But I will say, it is the correct thing to do when the machine isn't working. The passenger shouldn't have to worry about the reliability of the DB ticket machines, so I will say fair play to DB for this.