NY Times: More Children in Greece Start to Go Hungry

HondaSami

Seaneh wrote: »

No.

Just no.

LOL

sorry but it's an english thing, dinner is lunch and evening meal is tea.

Breakfast dinner tea and we always had supper before bed.

lazygal

Seaneh wrote: »

This comes from an agricultural background where you'd be out in the fields and working by 6am and come home by 2pm for your main meal, they still had 2 meals before that, a breakfast before leaving the house and sandwich or something later in the morning. They ate at 2pm, but that was near the end of their day and it was their main meal.


Having a hot lunch isn't the same as having dinner. It's a smaller portion, it's not designed to get you through to bed time.

I'd consider a hot lunch at lunchtime a dinner size meal. In our canteen its a big feed you'd be getting in the middle of the day, meat, veg, spuds and pudding. I think whether you call the meal lunch or dinner says something.....

Zillah

Food eaten at lunch time is lunch no matter what you eat. Unless it is a Sunday, in which case a proper meal at lunch time is dinner.

Seaneh

See you're still missing the point.

Noone said to give the kids a main meal, someone mentioned a stew, they didn't say give them dinner sized portions.


And again, that's missing the entire point of the thread.


Kids are going hungry in Europe.
Hungry kids can't concentrate and don't perform well in school and are at a higher risk of dropping out of school before completing second level and thus failing to secure a skilled job and often end up long term unemployed.

Kids who are fed can concentrate, perform better in school complete second level, attain a degree or skill set and gain a skilled job and then contribute positively to the economy.


It's the same basic principle as preventative medical practices like providing free screening for cancers/hearts problems/diseases or inoculation programs, investing in these simple steps drastically reduce later spending on trying to cure and treat those illnesses and saves massive amounts in the long run.


Making sure kids can perform at optimal levels in school leads to more skilled workers and less people on welfare and doesn't just save money, it CREATES tax income in the long run.

Permabear

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southsiderosie

Permabear wrote: »

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I am not sure why you think that comments deserves quoting - it is an opinion from someone reading the article and it short on empirical verification - the very same thing that you accuse the NY Times article itself of doing.

I also have to wonder about your shooting the messenger in the case: reporting on rising poverty in Greece has appeared in other media outlets that are not exactly regarded as bastions of the left, including the Wall Street Journal, which notes:

As unemployment has mounted in recession-hit Greece, so have poverty and hunger in Father Theodoros's once firmly middle-class parish in the Greek capital. His congregation's philanthropic resources have been stretched to the limit, he says, as it contributes to churchwide efforts to feed 10,000 people a day across Athens—which in turn is part of what Greek Orthodox Church officials say is the biggest mobilization to help the disadvantaged here since the aftermath of World War II.

mariaalice

Common sense would tell you that what has happened in Greece would lead to an increase in poverty and some of that is going to translate in to people having less choices about food and maybe that means some children are going hungry... left, right, or in the middle polities has very little to do with it ( except for the slant that the media put on it )

I still think basic food could be provided in school, we are not talking about nutrition or full meals but providing enought food so that children are not hungry even if it was just a slice of bread.

clairefontaine

mariaalice wrote: »

Common sense would tell you that what has happened in Greece would lead to an increase in poverty and some of that is going to translate in to people having less choices about food and maybe that means some children are going hungry... left, right, or in the middle polities has very little to do with it ( except for the slant that the media put on it )

I still think basic food could be provided in school, we are not talking about nutrition or full meals but providing enought food so that children are not hungry even if it was just a slice of bread.

Yes it is fairly predictable that with austerity measures, higher fuel prices, food will become a challenge.

In fact with fuel prices and the cost of running a car, as they are it's probably amazing kids can get to school in the first place.

Permabear

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clairefontaine

^ It's also a bit ridiculous to compare one nation [Greece] with an entire continent [Africa] composed of many nations.

They are only doing that for emotional button pressing so people conjure up pictures of emaciated African babies with sick eyes they see on the ads on tv.

New York Times getting jaundice is it?

NuckingFacker

Seaneh wrote: »

Hospital food is, by design, extremely nutritious, it's just bland tasting as they use very little salt and can be a big mushy as it has to be easily digestible.

Cobblers. Every time a family member goes in to stay in hospital we end up having to bring them in food as they are starving on the muck you get in there. Toast and liquidised cheapo slop are not "extremly nutritious". The vitamins are all cooked out of everything and it was muck before they started cooking it. Ever had a goo at what a hospital meal costs to produce vis a vis ingredients? It's pennies and you get what you pay for. Utter muck.

Seaneh

NuckingFacker wrote: »

Cobblers. Every time a family member goes in to stay in hospital we end up having to bring them in food as they are starving on the muck you get in there. Toast and liquidised cheapo slop are not "extremly nutritious". The vitamins are all cooked out of everything and it was muck before they started cooking it. Ever had a goo at what a hospital meal costs to produce vis a vis ingredients? It's pennies and you get what you pay for. Utter muck.

I'd wager I have spent more time in hospitals in the last 5 years than pretty much anyone else in this thread, I never felt hungry while in an Irish hospital, I wasn't malnourished when I left. I got 3 main meals a day and then 2-3 snacks and endless mugs of tea. I had a choice of dishes at each meal, feck there was even veggie options.

Hospital food is perfect for the people eating it.

lazygal

I was pleasantly surprised by hospital food. It wasn't a taste sensation but generally it was fresh, wholesome and tasty enough. I also had a choice at every meal, snacks and tea offered regularly. No one had to bring me in alternative meals.

southsiderosie

Permabear wrote: »

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It is one thing to say that different media outlets cherry pick what they want to profile in discussing the effects of both the crisis and austerity policies. But the comment you cited also dismisses the idea that some people have reached what would have been an unthinkable level of desperation just ten years ago.

The NYT published a similar article about Spain a few months ago, but in that instance, it was about how people were dumpster diving for food. It spawned a very similar stream of comments, and many of those who were adamant that this was not happening were Spaniards. The interesting thing from my perspective was that I saw people dumpster diving on a regular basis when I lived in Madrid in 2010, and unemployment was lower then (and this was before many peoples' unemployment checks ran out).

I think the truth is somewhere in-between: while this is far from the norm, in terms of the majority of families in struggling countries, hunger is prevalent enough that frontline religious and educational staff have noticed a difference and are struggling to cope. However, I would argue that given the resources within the EU, and in particular the existing policies governing agriculture and food distribution, this should not be happening.

Permabear wrote: »

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clairefontaine wrote: »

^ It's also a bit ridiculous to compare one nation [Greece] with an entire continent [Africa] composed of many nations.

I can agree with this to a certain extent.

On the one hand, I think your numbers are a bit off: feeding 10,000 people a day doesn't necessarily mean the same people every day - when I volunteered at a church-based food dispensary, most people came by weekly or towards the end of the month when they were short on cash. You can't really tell from the article, but I would think that those figures are a mix of weekly and monthly regulars and one-offs. The bigger issue however is the fact that their food distribution operations are reaching levels not seen in two generations.

However, I do think it is ridiculous to compare one country to an entire continent: standards of living in Tunisia are far ahead of, say, Burkina Faso. I also think that it was sloppy for the author to use the quote about food security without being more specific or checking that data: according to this global food security index, most of Eastern Europe ranks behind Greece, and Europe in general is ahead of Africa and Latin America.

smileyj1987

To be honest , I won't worry about anywhere else's children going hungry . I'm more worried hearing about children going hungry in this country . I have always been a firm believer in look after charities from your country before you look after anywhere else . I know some people have a meager existence and really need help but sometimes you need to look after your own first and foremost . some people may see it as abit racist but I would rather see somebody in this country being looked after before elsewhere .

southsiderosie

southsiderosie wrote: »

I am not sure why you think that comments deserves quoting - it is an opinion from someone reading the article and it short on empirical verification - the very same thing that you accuse the NY Times article itself of doing.

The WSJ is owned by Murdoch yeah? A couple of years ago his entire empire was really fanning the flames about how the Euro was going to collapse etc. etc. I wouldn't trust anything from any of his divisions to do with the European economy.

southsiderosie wrote: »

The NYT published a similar article about Spain a few months ago, but in that instance, it was about how people were dumpster diving for food. It spawned a very similar stream of comments, and many of those who were adamant that this was not happening were Spaniards. The interesting thing from my perspective was that I saw people dumpster diving on a regular basis when I lived in Madrid in 2010, and unemployment was lower then (and this was before many peoples' unemployment checks ran out).

Because they had to or because they're were incredibly far to the left? Channel 4 did at least one documentary a few years ago about middle-class people doing it and none of the people who appeared on camera seemed to be doing it because they had to.

K-9

Permabear wrote: »

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As somebody mentioned on this thread and was widely reported during the Greek elections, the Greek Far Right party and the Communists are also distributing supplies and setting up soup kitchens. You'd also have the usual charity organisations helping out.

Obviously the comparisons to Africa are hyperbolic but basing your estimates on the Orthodox Church's sole efforts would be underestimating the problem.

NuckingFacker

Seaneh wrote: »

I'd wager I have spent more time in hospitals in the last 5 years than pretty much anyone else in this thread, I never felt hungry while in an Irish hospital, I wasn't malnourished when I left. I got 3 main meals a day and then 2-3 snacks and endless mugs of tea. I had a choice of dishes at each meal, feck there was even veggie options.

Hospital food is perfect for the people eating it.

My Dad died in hospital after a long illness last year, my sister spent 18 months in hospital in 2008 after a bad car accident, Ma had a hip op and was in for two weeks of slop, I had a badly smashed arm and was stuck in the kip for a few weeks. The food was universally shyte and scarce. You have your view, I'll keep mine. If you are used to a healthy diet, the food is utter muck.

southsiderosie

Deleted User wrote: »

The WSJ is owned by Murdoch yeah? A couple of years ago his entire empire was really fanning the flames about how the Euro was going to collapse etc. etc. I wouldn't trust anything from any of his divisions to do with the European economy.

The WSJ was unabashedly a pro-market/neo-liberal newspaper before Murdoch purchased it, and that hasn't changed.

Deleted User wrote: »

Because they had to or because they're were incredibly far to the left? Channel 4 did at least one documentary a few years ago about middle-class people doing it and none of the people who appeared on camera seemed to be doing it because they had to.

Because they were desperate. These were middle-aged unemployed people, not 20-something 'free-gans'.

Permabear

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southsiderosie

southsiderosie wrote: »

The WSJ was unabashedly a pro-market/neo-liberal newspaper before Murdoch purchased it, and that hasn't changed.

It's pro-whatever Murdoch fancies.

Because they were desperate. These were middle-aged unemployed people, not 20-something 'free-gans'.

Fair enough.

Permabear

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K-9

Permabear wrote: »

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Interesting, do you have an actual link, just to get the source and context? Thanks.

Seaneh

NuckingFacker wrote: »

My Dad died in hospital after a long illness last year, my sister spent 18 months in hospital in 2008 after a bad car accident, Ma had a hip op and was in for two weeks of slop, I had a badly smashed arm and was stuck in the kip for a few weeks. The food was universally shyte and scarce. You have your view, I'll keep mine. If you are used to a healthy diet, the food is utter muck.

I had a stroke just over 3 and a half years ago which lead to me having two major surgeries, I spent a long time in St. Vincents University Hospital.
Never once was I hungry and never once was I fed **** food. I am a chef by profession, I have a very good understanding of the nutritional content of foods, I have a very good diet, what I ate in hospital while being madly under seasoned, was fine, it was perfect for people in hospital who need a low fat, easily digestible diet.

As I said, I never went hungry and I was far from malnourished when I left the hospital. I wasn't a michelin starred meal, but it was a damned sight better than a lot of Irish people diets of frozen, processed ****e and fried meats.

I'll never complain about the level of care or the food provided by the health service in Ireland, the medical staff in St. Vincents saved my life and the support staff made me extremely comfortable. The only thing I had to supplement my diet with was wine gums and malteasers to keep my sweet tooth at bay, and even at that I was given desert with every evening meal so I was just being greedy.

Permabear

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syklops

Seaneh wrote: »

I had a stroke just over 3 and a half years ago which lead to me having two major surgeries, I spent a long time in St. Vincents University Hospital.
Never once was I hungry and never once was I fed **** food. I am a chef by profession, I have a very good understanding of the nutritional content of foods, I have a very good diet, what I ate in hospital while being madly under seasoned, was fine, it was perfect for people in hospital who need a low fat, easily digestible diet.

As I said, I never went hungry and I was far from malnourished when I left the hospital. I wasn't a michelin starred meal, but it was a damned sight better than a lot of Irish people diets of frozen, processed ****e and fried meats.

I'll never complain about the level of care or the food provided by the health service in Ireland, the medical staff in St. Vincents saved my life and the support staff made me extremely comfortable. The only thing I had to supplement my diet with was wine gums and malteasers to keep my sweet tooth at bay, and even at that I was given desert with every evening meal so I was just being greedy.

Relax a little and maybe consider the possibility that the quality of food, just like the quality of care varies from hospital to hospital.

My Dad was in a hospital in Galway and the doctors denied there was anything wrong with him and sent him to a different hospital for minding but not treatment(we basically abandoned him at their feet). Nine hours later he was having brain surgery.

My Aunt is a regular in St Vincents and loves the food. I've been in hospitals in other parts of the country with food comparable to army food. Stodgy, hard to digest, regular trips to the loo after.