NY Times: More Children in Greece Start to Go Hungry

southsiderosie

NY Times: More Children in Greece Start to Go Hungry

Last year, an estimated 10 percent of Greek elementary- and middle-school students suffered from what public health professionals call “food insecurity,” meaning they faced hunger or the risk of it, said Dr. Athena Linos, a professor at the University of Athens Medical School who also heads a food assistance program at Prolepsis, a nongovernmental public health group that has studied the situation. “When it comes to food insecurity, Greece has now fallen to the level of some African countries,” she said.

Unlike those in the United States, Greek schools do not offer subsidized cafeteria lunches. Students bring their own food or buy items from a canteen. The cost has become insurmountable for some families with little or no income. Their troubles have been compounded by new austerity measures demanded by Greece’s creditors, including higher electricity taxes and cuts in subsidies for large families. As a result, parents without work are seeing their savings and benefits rapidly disappear.

“All around me I hear kids saying: ‘My parents don’t have any money. We don’t know what we are going to do,’ ” said Evangelia Karakaxa, a vivacious 15-year-old at the No. 9 junior high school in Acharnes.

Acharnes, a working-class town among the mountains of Attica, was bustling with activity from imports until the economic crisis wiped out thousands of factory jobs.

Now, several of Evangelia’s classmates are frequently hungry, she said, and one boy recently fainted. Some children were starting to steal for food, she added. While she did not excuse it, she understood their plight. “Those who are well fed will never understand those who are not,” she said.

I can buy the argument that Greece has dug itself into this hole with its numbers-fudging and out of control government spending.

I can buy the argument that many European countries need to make painful labor market reforms.

What I cannot buy is the idea that children anywhere in Europe should be going hungry in school. This is a disgrace. At a minimum, the EU should be somewhat engaged in food security issues among member states: for example, given how much the EU spends in agricultural subsidies, it does not seem unreasonable that some of that food should be redirected to ensure that children get at least one decent meal during the school day. And whatever other cuts that the ECB/IMF call for, there should be some minimum standard for cutting social service programs: school lunches are relatively cheap in the greater scheme of things, especially when you consider the negative effect that hunger has on learning.

Dravokivich

The EU controls the amount of food produced from farms to artificially hold the value of food resources. They are not going to give out a load of it for free, which would in turn devalue food resources.

A lot of this is about how choices are made by a government/society. If a given government has only a certain amount of money to spend on welfare of what ever sort, the said government could decide to provide a free school meal instead of any other sort of welfare help to family's and thats what Greece should be doing no child in need should go hungry.

not yet

As I have said 100 times .....Rich get richer and greedy get greedier.

Boombastic

This is terrible, can they even speak Hungarian?

squod

Breaking news 'Financial Terrorists Don't Give Fuhk About Children shocker'.

davet82

yeah but they still have sunshine and swimming pools, the little feckers

WayneMolloy

Seachmall wrote: »

I don't see what Hungry doesn't just close off it's borders to them.

The thirst for thanks is strong in this one.:D

Absolutely horrible situation for sections of the Greek populace. Iirc both the communist party and the right wing golden dawn party, have set up food drives and breakfast clubs to help those on the brink of poverty.

Perhaps they could put down their ideological differences and work together on this one?

biko

No-one ever bring up the Greek pet poverty. Those pets can't feed themselves y'know :mad:

The Backwards Man

I find this hard to believe. The Greeks are pretty experienced at telling a good story, as recent and ancient history has taught us.

latenia

Yet they're still the 2nd fattest kids in the world:

According to the recent findings of the University Mental Health Research Institute (UMHRI), Greece has the second-highest rate in childhood obesity internationally after the USA.

More specifically, 21.9 percent of teenagers in Greece (pupils in the sixth grade, the classes of Junior High School and first grade of High School) were heavier than normal, while 16.3 percent of the problem concerns girls.

Just make the fatties share more...

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2012/02/20/greece-has-second-highest-childhood-obesity-rate-in-the-world/

HondaSami

There are people hungry people in Ireland as well, me for one, must be lunchtime.

davet82

latenia wrote: »

Yet they're still the 2nd fattest kids in the world:



Just make the fatties share more...

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2012/02/20/greece-has-second-highest-childhood-obesity-rate-in-the-world/

that sort of explains why they're hungry

Isn't the percentage roughly the same in Ireland?

clairefontaine

This is going on in Ireland too.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/more-than-20pc-of-children-will-go-to-school-hungry-today-says-study-26843737.html

southsiderosie

clairefontaine wrote: »

This is going on in Ireland too.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/more-than-20pc-of-children-will-go-to-school-hungry-today-says-study-26843737.html

That article suggests that kids aren't getting breakfast or dinner at home, but is there a school lunch program in Ireland? There isn't in Greece and that is part of the problem.

clairefontaine

southsiderosie wrote: »

That article suggests that kids aren't getting breakfast or dinner at home, but is there a school lunch program in Ireland? There isn't in Greece and that is part of the problem.

Certainly not in rural areas. I dont know about Dublin. There is no canteen. I pack a lunch everyday and it goes into school and they sit and watch Tom and Jerry in the classroom while they eat their lunch.

No I am not joking.

WayneMolloy

southsiderosie wrote: »

That article suggests that kids aren't getting breakfast or dinner at home, but is there a school lunch program in Ireland? There isn't in Greece and that is part of the problem.

No. The traveller kids used to get milk and hot cross buns in my old school. Everyone else brought their own lunch.

The state should work out how much parents pay for their kids lunch, on average. Then deduct that amount from the child benefit paid out each month and provide lunch to all children in state schools. This would save the state money, as they would be buying the ingredients in bulk, create jobs and ensure that every child gets one nutritious meal a day.

southsiderosie

Dravokivich wrote: »

The EU controls the amount of food produced from farms to artificially hold the value of food resources. They are not going to give out a load of it for free, which would in turn devalue food resources.

The Common Agricultural Policy already allows for the distribution of some of its surplus stock for food aid within the EU. Targeting school lunches would be an extension of existing policy.

WayneMolloy

clairefontaine wrote: »

Certainly not in rural areas. I dont know about Dublin. There is no canteen.

No I am not joking.

Same in Dublin. Contrary to popular belief, we arent treated much better up here.

HondaSami

clairefontaine wrote: »

Certainly not in rural areas. I dont know about Dublin. There is no canteen. I pack a lunch everyday and it goes into school and they sit and watch Tom and Jerry in the classroom while they eat their lunch.

No I am not joking.

what's wrong with this? I'm not in favour of school dinners tbh, it's the same as most things people on welfare get them free and everyone else has to pay for them.
If you have a few children in school paying for dinners can be expensive

clairefontaine

clairefontaine wrote: »

Certainly not in rural areas. I don't know about Dublin. There is no canteen. I pack a lunch everyday and it goes into school and they sit and watch Tom and Jerry in the classroom while they eat their lunch.

No I am not joking.

I know this is a bit off topic but that a disgrace children should not be watching a TV or DVD in school, except as a very rare treat would you not complain to the school?

clairefontaine

southsiderosie wrote: »

The Common Agricultural Policy already allows for the distribution of some of its surplus stock for food aid within the EU. Targeting school lunches would be an extension of existing policy.

A lot of schools dont have kitchen facilities. Even if they had a programme they couldn't execute it.

clairefontaine

mariaalice wrote: »

I know this is a bit off topic but that a disgrace children should not be watching a TV or DVD in school, except as a very rare treat would you not complain to the school?

mary alice, I have to choose my battles. I have written to them about missing toilet seats, lack of locked doors and security already and other basic infrastructural deficiencies. They are sick of me.

HondaSami

WayneMolloy wrote: »

No. The traveller kids used to get milk and hot cross buns in my old school. Everyone else brought their own lunch.

The state should work out how much parents pay for their kids lunch, on average. Then deduct that amount from the child benefit paid out each month and provide lunch to all children in state schools. This would save the state money, as they would be buying the ingredients in bulk, create jobs and ensure that every child gets one nutritious meal a day.

Are they nutritious really, always seemed like hospital food to me. I think children are better getting nutritious meals at home.

southsiderosie

clairefontaine wrote: »

A lot of schools dont have kitchen facilities. Even if they had a programme they couldn't execute it.

Kids don't need a hot lunch - a sandwich, a piece of fruit, and a carton of milk in a brown paper bag would be enough to make a difference.

southsiderosie

HondaSami wrote: »

Are they nutritious really, always seemed like hospital food to me. I think children are better getting nutritious meals at home.

Yes, but the point is, the kids aren't getting nutritious meals at home. They are barely getting meals of any kind at all.

WayneMolloy

HondaSami wrote: »

what's wrong with this? I'm not in favour of school dinners tbh, it's the same as most things people on welfare get them free and everyone else has to pay for them.
If you have a few children in school paying for dinners can be expensive

Lets say parents spend 50 quid a month on their kids lunches. Deduct child benefit by 45, they get an extra fiver as disposable income - and the state then has a 40 euro budget to provide their kids with a nutritious meal every lunchtime. Saving the state a fiver per nipper, too. Stews, fruits, soups, salads and the like are pretty inexpensive as the ingredients can be bought in bulk. In rural areas the state can put the contract out to tender and local companies can ply for it.

The figures are not precise. Only using them as an example.

Mardy Bum

The same thing happens in Ireland and it has been brought up at numerous national teaching conferences.

Seaneh

In ecuador every kid in primary school is given a cereal bar/biscuit/thing and a box of fortified juice (juice with added vitimins and dairy proteins/fats think like that dawn drink from a few years back?) when the arrive at school, the bar is designed to expand in their tummies and keep them feeling full for longer and it's a slow release energy so it keeps them awake during school and the initial sugar hit of the juice box gets them going for the day. Hungry kids find it hard to concentrate and stay awake, giving them this small meal keeps them going until lunch time. From talking to teachers in ecuador pupil performance and attendance is drastically improved since the system was implemented and far more students are going on to 2nd and 3rd level and as a result the countries economy in improving because of a more skilled workforce.


How hard would it be to implement something similar here in Europe?

Seaneh

HondaSami wrote: »

Are they nutritious really, always seemed like hospital food to me. I think children are better getting nutritious meals at home.

Hospital food is, by design, extremely nutritious, it's just bland tasting as they use very little salt and can be a big mushy as it has to be easily digestible.

HondaSami

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Lets say parents spend 50 quid a month on their kids lunches. Deduct child benefit by 45, they get an extra fiver as disposable income - and the state then has a 40 euro budget to provide their kids with a nutritious meal every lunchtime. Saving the state a fiver per nipper, too. Stews, fruits, soups, salads and the like are pretty inexpensive as the ingredients can be bought in bulk. In rural areas the state can put the contract out to tender and local companies can ply for it.

The figures are not precise. Only using them as an example.

Sound great in theory but i guarantee you if hot lunches were provided they would be min €10 per child a week, kids don't need two dinners a day and most parents cook an evening meal.
I would not pay for the school to provide a sandwich when it's just as easy for me to make it at home.
My problem would be if they did provide hot meals children on welfare would get it free while other kids are left out or parents have to pay.

conorhal

Seaneh wrote: »

In ecuador every kid in primary school is given a cereal bar/biscuit/thing and a box of fortified juice (juice with added vitimins and dairy proteins/fats think like that dawn drink from a few years back?) when the arrive at school, the bar is designed to expand in their tummies and keep them feeling full for longer and it's a slow release energy so it keeps them awake during school, hungry kids find it hard to concentrate and stay awake and the initial sugar hit of the juice box gets them going for the day, giving them this small meal keeps them going until lunch time. From talking to teachers in ecuador pupil performance and attendance is drastically improved since the system was implemented and far more students are going on to 2nd and 3rd level and as a result the countries economy in improving because of a more skilled workforce.


How hard would it be to implement something similar here in Europe?

I think we can finally call EU integration a failed experiment once it has to start putting it's citizens on friggin' plumpy-nut....

southsiderosie

HondaSami wrote: »

My problem would be if they did provide hot meals children on welfare would get it free while other kids are left out or parents have to pay.

Isn't this the point?

WayneMolloy

HondaSami wrote: »

Are they nutritious really, always seemed like hospital food to me. I think children are better getting nutritious meals at home.

Hospital food, by default, is very nutritious but unpalatable. The food is unseasoned as its sole aim is to get you better.

Long term patients view salt sachets like prisoners view cigarettes.

HondaSami

southsiderosie wrote: »

Isn't this the point?

Yes but what about families who are working but on low incomes, they would be pressured into paying for school meals.

clairefontaine

southsiderosie wrote: »

Kids don't need a hot lunch - a sandwich, a piece of fruit, and a carton of milk in a brown paper bag would be enough to make a difference.

Have you ever ordered a sandwich in Ireland? It's two pieces of bread with A slice of cheese or A slice of ham with butter or mayonnaise.

Far far far away from Katz deli.

I get what you are saying though.

Seaneh

conorhal wrote: »

I think we can finally call EU integration a failed experiment once it has to start putting it's citizens on friggin' plumpy-nut....

That's not exactly the same thing, now is it?

It need not be on an EU level, but the reality is that poverty exists in the EU and in every state at that. Making sure kids at risk of going hungry don't, is something that should be considered because as I stated above, hungry kids don't perform in school, which means they don't progress and in the long run end up on welfare and costing the state a lot of money.

Kids who are fed are kids who are attentive and alert and learn far better and therefore have a higher chance to going on to 3rd level, getting an education which will lead to a skilled job and contributing to the economy in a positive manner.

It's not rocket science.

WayneMolloy

HondaSami wrote: »

Yes but what about families who are working but on low incomes, they would be pressured into paying for school meals.

Every child gets a free lunch and then deduct child benefit payments accordingly.

Not a fan of nanny state policies, but too many parents use the payment to fund their own lifestyle choices and not on their children.

syklops

HondaSami wrote: »

My problem would be if they did provide hot meals children on welfare would get it free while other kids are left out or parents have to pay.

Well obviously you can opt out of the scheme. The issue thats being addressed is the kids whose parents for what ever reason, don't feed them in the morning or the evening get something in school.

Seaneh

clairefontaine wrote: »

Have you ever ordered a sandwich in Ireland? It's two pieces of bread with A slice of cheese or A slice of ham with butter or mayonnaise.

Far far far away from Katz deli.

I get what you are saying though.

Two pieces of bread, a slice of ham and a slice of cheese when paired with an apple/banana/pear/orange is a pretty decent fecking meal, in fairness. Plenty of carbohydrate, plenty of protein and plenty of fibre. It's not the "best" meal in the world but it's far from the worst.

HondaSami

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Every child gets a free lunch and then deduct child benefit payments accordingly.

Not a fan of nanny state policies, but too many parents use the payment to fund their own lifestyle choices and not on their children.

So parents have no choice in the matter, how's that going to work? if my kids don't like what's provided i pay anyway and provide my own lunch for them?

I agree some parents might use the CB for different things but not all parents do and not all parents should be treated the same.

WayneMolloy

Seaneh wrote: »

That's not exactly the same thing, now is it?

It need not be on an EU level, but the reality is that poverty exists in the EU and in every state at that. Making sure kids at risk of going hungry don't, is something that should be considered because as I stated above, hungry kids don't perform in school, which means they don't progress and in the long run end up on welfare and costing the state a lot of money.

Kids who are fed are kids who are attentive and alert and learn far better and therefore have a higher chance to going on to 3rd level, getting an education which will lead to a skilled job and contributing to the economy in a positive manner.

It's not rocket science.

Many former eastern bloc but now EU countries provide kids with both breakfast and lunch in the schools. The facilities available to school children in these so called 'poor' countries put ours to shame. We could learn a lot from them, in this regard.

Mr Benevolent

davet82 wrote: »

yeah but they still have sunshine and swimming pools, the little feckers

And space for trampolines...

HondaSami

syklops wrote: »

Well obviously you can opt out of the scheme. The issue thats being addressed is the kids whose parents for what ever reason, don't feed them in the morning or the evening get something in school.

Don't feed them? is this can't be arsed or cannot afford to feed them?
Parents who neglect their kids should be taken to task imo, not feeding them is neglect.

WayneMolloy

HondaSami wrote: »

So parents have no choice in the matter, how's that going to work? if my kids don't like what's provided i pay anyway and provide my own lunch for them?

I agree some parents might use the CB for different things but not all parents do and not all parents should be treated the same.

A large pot of stew, soup, few cold cuts of sandwich meat, veggies, breads and some lettuce would be pretty cheap and cater to most childrens tastes. Parents would not lose money, as its one less expense they would have to cater for. In fact, if done properly and not used as a vehicle to enrich a select few - both the state and the parents could save themselves money and no child goes hungry.

ArmaniJeanss

southsiderosie wrote: »

What I cannot buy is the idea that children anywhere in Europe should be going hungry in school. This is a disgrace. At a minimum, the EU should be somewhat engaged in food security issues among member states: for example, given how much the EU spends in agricultural subsidies, it does not seem unreasonable that some of that food should be redirected to ensure that children get at least one decent meal during the school day.

When the Irish government, via an EU scheme to address food 'mountains', gave free blocks of cheese out they were very much condemned and laughed at (Its jobs and money we need not cheese etc)

I don't know if the Greeks would have the same attitude if their government came up with a few hundred container loads of Danish ham and Austrian schitnzel.

Sometimes 'charity' can be taken in a very negative way.

syklops

HondaSami wrote: »

Don't feed them? is this can't be arsed or cannot afford to feed them?
Parents who neglect their kids should be taken to task imo, not feeding them is neglect.

Did you even read the article? Both. Neither. What does it matter? The point is its happening for 22% of school children in Greece and for a similar number in Ireland.

Gyalist

My son's school serves a 3-course lunch at €6 and at my daughters old school it is about the same.

What always surprises me is the amount of primary school children I see having their breakfast in McDonalds.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

southsiderosie wrote: »

I can buy the argument that Greece has dug itself into this hole with its numbers-fudging and out of control government spending.

I can buy the argument that many European countries need to make painful labor market reforms.

What I cannot buy is the idea that children anywhere in Europe should be going hungry in school. This is a disgrace. At a minimum, the EU should be somewhat engaged in food security issues among member states: for example, given how much the EU spends in agricultural subsidies, it does not seem unreasonable that some of that food should be redirected to ensure that children get at least one decent meal during the school day. And whatever other cuts that the ECB/IMF call for, there should be some minimum standard for cutting social service programs: school lunches are relatively cheap in the greater scheme of things, especially when you consider the negative effect that hunger has on learning.

Modern politics is about caring for the voters. Children don't vote. Ergo...

HondaSami

WayneMolloy wrote: »

A large pot of stew, soup, few cold cuts of sandwich meat, veggies, breads and some lettuce would be pretty cheap and cater to most childrens tastes. Parents would not lose money, as its one less expense they would have to cater for. In fact, if done properly and not used as a vehicle to enrich a select few - both the state and the parents could save themselves money and no child goes hungry.

The parents have to eat and a meal is still cooked in the evening, kids will eat another dinner, parents will be paying on the double.
I think a family meal is important, it's when everyone sits down in the evening to talk about the day.