Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

Timmaay

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

They will still be able to keep increasing output for a while yet, foreign seeds were only allowed to be imported to ukraine for the first time this year which could give up to 50% yield increase in wheat if i remember right.
North+South America and even africa all have a huge amount of untapped potential which only need a change in management or bit of investment to greatly increase output.

Problem with Eastern European also is corruption, plenty story's of farmers driving down with a combine to cut a field of corn and some other ****er got in there the day before to cut it instead ha!

Farmer Ed

kowtow wrote: »

Hmmm... yes, well not quite grapes.

It's a long time since I saw an Irish cow eating hay outside my yard. And comte milk is likely to come from an MO ... not a x bred MO either.

Our milk is largely grass fed, but for most premium cheese fermented fodder would be out and possibly rotational grazing too.

Would we be prepared, able even, to ditch the more is better approach?

Fair point about the comte but you'll have to admit that the average Irish milk is Far closer to that than milk produced from cows kept indoors on maize silage all year round. Surely then if comte milk is making 55c our price could be somewhere between that and and maize fed indoor milk? In reality grass fed milk, rotational grazed or not. Dose have different properties. Why does Irish butter have a yellow golden colour? Yes that's how kerrygold got its name. If our cows were kept indoors all year round it could be called kerrywhite. But it's the carotene in the grass that allows us to command a premium on that product. After that our marketeers and product developers seem to have hit a wall
Ask any coffee expert about the problems they can encounter in the winter months foaming silage fed milk As a cheese maker you are aware that most cheese makers won't touch silage fed milk. Even the infant formula people want grass fed milk. I doubt if Danone could get enough of it in France they would be investing here. The question is. Apart from the fact that we live on an island of the mainland of Europe. Why are we not getting a premium for our product? Instead of a premium. We get paid less.
I suspect the answer to that question has more to do with product mix than anything else.

blackdog1

That is what Teagasc would have you believe. Dairygold lost the contract for a baby formula plant due to the high nitrogen levels in the milk. Grass Fed milk has its problems especially with people who spread their monthly fertilizer in 1 day. Buffer feeding on grass is the perfect system in my opinion. About 1 tonne of maize per cow would be sufficient.problem is Teagasc are promoting cows that just won't respond to this because they have poor capacity.

Farmer Ed

blackdog1 wrote: »

That is what Teagasc would have you believe. Dairygold lost the contract for a baby formula plant due to the high nitrogen levels in the milk. Grass Fed milk has its problems especially with people who spread their monthly fertilizer in 1 day. Buffer feeding on grass is the perfect system in my opinion. About 1 tonne of maize per cow would be sufficient.problem is Teagasc are promoting cows that just won't respond to this because they have poor capacity.

Everything in moderation. For the reasons already outlined grass in the diet does give milk a different composition. That and increasingly the consumer is becoming more aware of animal welfare. If they want happy cows grazing grass. Let's give them happy cows grazing grass.

Not sure why Dairygold lost the Danone contract. As far as I know they still take some bit of product in to Danone. Just trucks from other Co ops seem to be in and out of there also. I thought that they just lost the exclusive supply agreement they had with Danone and the 40m premium that went with that. If your correct that fertiliser that was brought on special offer on the o4 account, could have been the most expensive fertiliser ever.

jaymla627

blackdog1 wrote: »

That is what Teagasc would have you believe. Dairygold lost the contract for a baby formula plant due to the high nitrogen levels in the milk. Grass Fed milk has its problems especially with people who spread their monthly fertilizer in 1 day. Buffer feeding on grass is the perfect system in my opinion. About 1 tonne of maize per cow would be sufficient.problem is Teagasc are promoting cows that just won't respond to this because they have poor capacity.

Careful now our the grass mafia will be out to get you, would agree with all of the above and would even go further in so far as i use no irish bulls whatsoever as I simply think they don't suit my system and much rather spend money on high type/production daughter proven bulls that I know will do 8000 plus litres and last

freedominacup

Dawggone wrote: »

Didn't one of the Irish processors try making a Dutch Edam/Leerdammer/Maasdammer at some stage?
The liquid milk market in Cont EU is very small but cheese is a large market. As you say the quality of milk is not available from the Montys and Normandys and the whole forage system would have to change. Wouldn't fancy having to make hay in Ireland. But there are 500mill people to sell to...
The price of French dairy produce is under constant pressure from German 'French' type cheeses on the shelves.

That was Waterford foods around 20 years ago. Experienced cheesemakers in kilmeaden just could not get the process to work with our milk. Brought in expertise from Holland, no joy. Abandoned after a couple of expensive years.

greysides

Dawggone wrote: »

Since when is a tasteless product that lacks in provenance European? Grow up. Ya thic

Dawggone wrote: »

At the risk of repeating myself, and I hate repeating myself, what's your point? Your a European? Good for you...so am I.

Are we special because we're European?
Wake up. My cows will spend more time at pasture than yours. Should I get a medal, a bun? Grow up..
Your cows are no better than mine. Think up of a better way of marketing their product.

Mod: I'm 'sure' those comments were meant in the nicest possible way but just in case they weren't...
Grow up, ya thick, ya!

Sam Kade

Pacoa wrote: »

I've been trying to get DG to remove my IFA/ICMSA levy from my milk cheque but keep getting put through to some fella that never answers the phone. Should I just write them a letter instead?

Get onto your milk advisor, they'll tell you what to write and where to send it.

blackdog1

Farmer Ed wrote:

Not sure why Dairygold lost the Danone contract. As far as I know they still take some bit of product in to Danone. Just trucks from other Co ops seem to be in and out of there also. I thought that they just lost the exclusive supply agreement they had with Danone and the 40m premium that went with that. If your correct that fertiliser that was brought on special offer on the o4 account, could have been the most expensive fertiliser ever.

That's the rumour. It's not just dairygold that would have had that problem. It's an Irish problem....I've seen lots of farmers spread fertilizer even where the cows are grazing. On my farm we spread each paddock after grazing and last year I even put a nitrogen blocker in the feed during breeding season and short rotation. Found it excellent for breeding . If I was buffer feeding I wouldn't need that.

Milked out

blackdog1 wrote: »

Farmer Ed wrote:

Not sure why Dairygold lost the Danone contract. As far as I know they still take some bit of product in to Danone. Just trucks from other Co ops seem to be in and out of there also. I thought that they just lost the exclusive supply agreement they had with Danone and the 40m premium that went with that. If your correct that fertiliser that was brought on special offer on the o4 account, could have been the most expensive fertiliser ever.

That's the rumour. It's not just dairygold that would have had that problem. It's an Irish problem....I've seen lots of farmers spread fertilizer even where the cows are grazing. On my farm we spread each paddock after grazing and last year I even put a nitrogen blocker in the feed during breeding season and short rotation. Found it excellent for breeding . If I was buffer feeding I wouldn't need that.

If dg would test for.milk urea we could solve that issue

Milked out

blackdog1 wrote: »

Farmer Ed wrote:

Not sure why Dairygold lost the Danone contract. As far as I know they still take some bit of product in to Danone. Just trucks from other Co ops seem to be in and out of there also. I thought that they just lost the exclusive supply agreement they had with Danone and the 40m premium that went with that. If your correct that fertiliser that was brought on special offer on the o4 account, could have been the most expensive fertiliser ever.

That's the rumour. It's not just dairygold that would have had that problem. It's an Irish problem....I've seen lots of farmers spread fertilizer even where the cows are grazing. On my farm we spread each paddock after grazing and last year I even put a nitrogen blocker in the feed during breeding season and short rotation. Found it excellent for breeding . If I was buffer feeding I wouldn't need that.

If dg would test for.milk urea we could solve that issue

Farmer Ed

Milked out wrote: »

If dg would test for.milk urea we could solve that issue

It should not be a problem for them Arrabawn do that as standard as a managment tool to help suppliers. Apparently it's not that difficult to do.

pedigree 6

blackdog1 wrote: »

That's the rumour. It's not just dairygold that would have had that problem. It's an Irish problem....I've seen lots of farmers spread fertilizer even where the cows are grazing. On my farm we spread each paddock after grazing and last year I even put a nitrogen blocker in the feed during breeding season and short rotation. Found it excellent for breeding . If I was buffer feeding I wouldn't need that.

I have the ho/fr type of cow.
I'd be spreading N after the cows come out of the paddock. Since glanbia started testing for milk urea my mu has been 12 - 14 for this time of year and the last test was 14. According to glanbia helpsheet this is too low but the cows are in good condition, milking well and going back in calf.
On grass and 4 kgs meal.
Edit: no N blocker in the meal that I'm aware of (don't know what it is) but the low Pr meal itself will bring down the mu anyway and get them back in calf.
High energy, low protein.

blackdog1

pedigree 6 wrote:

I have the ho/fr type of cow. I'd be spreading N after the cows come out of the paddock. Since glanbia started testing for milk urea my mu has been 12 - 14 for this time of year and the last test was 14. According to glanbia helpsheet this is too low but the cows are in good condition, milking well and going back in calf. On grass and 4 kgs meal.

Any system that works is a good system.

WheatenBriar

Got word there of glanbias co op special dividend of 25c subject to approval of an sgm Saturday, its welcome but is it on top of the normal 10c dividend?

I've not seen the bps balancing 3% payment yet,whens that coming?

whelan2

WheatenBriar wrote: »

Got word there of glanbias co op special dividend of 25c subject to approval of an sgm Saturday, its welcome but is it on top of the normal 10c dividend?

I've not seen the bps balancing 3% payment yet,whens that coming?

Could be doing with the balancing payment alright. Sent a few calves to wicklow calf company 3 weeks ago tomorrow still no payment. Sent 2 cows to factory last Wednesday still no payment. ... Could be using the Euro saver menu at mc Donald's for young lads communion if the money doesn't come

20silkcut

Dawggone wrote: »

I'm not talking from both sides of my mouth.
Anyone that's profitable in milk over the next few years will have big opportunities come their way.

The lands east of the Danube are15/20yrs away from kicking into top gear. There's huge investment to be made in infrastructure and facilities. However it's now well under way. KWS, DECALB, MONSANTO etc are now establishing themselves there. France's position of being one of the top producers of seeds in the world won't last long...

100 years after the mechanisation of agriculture would make you wonder why they are only kicking into gear now.
I know they were under soviet influence but surely they always strived to get the most out of the land and their machinery was not much different to ours.

It could not be anything like the impact mechanisation had on the American plains over 100 years ago. That put farming completely in the hind tit in Britain.

pedigree 6

blackdog1 wrote: »

Any system that works is a good system.

Does that mean that the milk from my cows would make good cheese?
There would be a base of Monty breeding back in them as well.

Farmer Ed

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Does that mean that the milk from my cows would make good cheese?
There would be a base of Monty breeding back in them as well.

Possibly. All I know is most cheese makers don't like milk from silage I'm not sure how much of a difference the breed makes.i know of a lot of good cheese makers using milk from black and white cows also.

kowtow

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Possibly. All I know is most cheese makers don't like milk from silage I'm not sure how much of a difference the breed makes.i know of a lot of good cheese makers using milk from black and white cows also.

A lot depends on what cheese you are making.

If you are feeding silage, quality is vital as there is a risk of blown cheese (butyric fermentation) with poorly made forage.

kowtow

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Fair point about the comte but you'll have to admit that the average Irish milk is Far closer to that than milk produced from cows kept indoors on maize silage all year round. Surely then if comte milk is making 55c our price could be somewhere between that and and maize fed indoor milk? In reality grass fed milk, rotational grazed or not. Dose have different properties. Why does Irish butter have a yellow golden colour? Yes that's how kerrygold got its name. If our cows were kept indoors all year round it could be called kerrywhite. But it's the carotene in the grass that allows us to command a premium on that product. After that our marketeers and product developers seem to have hit a wall
Ask any coffee expert about the problems they can encounter in the winter months foaming silage fed milk As a cheese maker you are aware that most cheese makers won't touch silage fed milk. Even the infant formula people want grass fed milk. I doubt if Danone could get enough of it in France they would be investing here. The question is. Apart from the fact that we live on an island of the mainland of Europe. Why are we not getting a premium for our product? Instead of a premium. We get paid less.
I suspect the answer to that question has more to do with product mix than anything else.

Agreed - problem is that factory made "farmhouse cheese" is a contradiction in terms and we don't have much of a historical terroir here (well we probably do, but nobody seems to be able to find it..)

25EUR / kg in the shops = say 1.20 litre for milk with a really good premium small scale cheese sold wholesale.

Take the cheese down to premium factory levels and you are much nearer 30c, I'd be surprised if a factory cheese of any scale except perhaps very small organic co-operative would pay 60c for milk.

Farmhouse cheese / dairy products are a ground up, family farm industry. If the direction came from above the product wouldn't be fit for pigs and nobody would pay a premium for it anyway. You need lots of farmers to be producing a few tonnes (and no more than that) and tourists coming to taste all the subtle differences from the land. Think wine and vineyards, not coca-cola. And (to certain Irish cheesemakers) stop dousing it in f***cking ash and putting glitter on it and whiskey in it or cider around it and stop and trying to add 10 different flavours in one cheese. It doesn't need gimmicks, it needs wonderful Irish milk and a phenomenal amount of hard, careful, loving physical labour. Nature does the rest.

Of course we are nearer the perfect starting point than any other country in Europe, our milk is fantastic - we are spoilt in fact - but the question is where do we take things from here. The energy has to come from every individual farm, not from the processors or Teagasc or Bord Bia...

Farmer Ed

kowtow wrote: »

Agreed - problem is that factory made "farmhouse cheese" is a contradiction in terms and we don't have much of a historical terroir here (well we probably do, but nobody seems to be able to find it..)

25EUR / kg in the shops = say 1.20 litre for milk with a really good premium small scale cheese sold wholesale.

Take the cheese down to premium factory levels and you are much nearer 30c, I'd be surprised if a factory cheese of any scale except perhaps very small organic co-operative would pay 60c for milk.

Farmhouse cheese / dairy products are a ground up, family farm industry. If the direction came from above the product wouldn't be fit for pigs and nobody would pay a premium for it anyway. You need lots of farmers to be producing a few tonnes (and no more than that) and tourists coming to taste all the subtle differences from the land. Think wine and vineyards, not coca-cola. And (to certain Irish cheesemakers) stop dousing it in f***cking ash and putting glitter on it and whiskey in it or cider around it and stop and trying to add 10 different flavours in one cheese. It doesn't need gimmicks, it needs wonderful Irish milk and a phenomenal amount of hard, careful, loving physical labour. Nature does the rest.

Of course we are nearer the perfect starting point than any other country in Europe, our milk is fantastic - we are spoilt in fact - but the question is where do we take things from here. The energy has to come from every individual farm, not from the processors or Teagasc or Bord Bia...

You make some very valid points. Just it dose seem like selling ourselves short, taking all this great quality milk and drying it
In to powder. There surely must be other niches that could and should be examined

kowtow

Farmer Ed wrote: »

You make some very valid points. Just it dose seem like selling ourselves short, taking all this great quality milk and drying it
In to powder. There surely must be other niches that could and should be examined

I think there is universal agreement about that among farmers at least (although not perhaps among the IFA, ICSMA, etc. etc.)

The question isn't whether we want to profit from high value niches... but they are niches, you can't turn them on like taps. It needs a whole new level of self confidence and respect for quality, actually we need to rediscover our love of farming & the land. We need to stop trying to farm money and start remembering how to produce beautiful food.

And that is something that most definitely can be controlled inside the farm gate.

yosemitesam1

20silkcut wrote: »

100 years after the mechanisation of agriculture would make you wonder why they are only kicking into gear now.
I know they were under soviet influence but surely they always strived to get the most out of the land and their machinery was not much different to ours.

It could not be anything like the impact mechanisation had on the American plains over 100 years ago. That put farming completely in the hind tit in Britain.

They were the worlds biggest supplier for most of the 19th century, I think it was when communism finished you had lads with small holdings and no money, land wasnt able to be sold either afaik so it wasnt used to potential or abandoned.

Bass Reeves

If we look at the last 40 years of Irish agriculture processing there are only a few really good food brands. Kerrygold butter is often the most quoted another is cream Bailey's Cream liquer and a few spins off of it. We have failed to brand our lamb and beef.

Within 24 hours we could deliver fresh milk to 50%+ of the UK and 36 hours we can deliver it into 40% of France. Yes we have not even attempted it. There is no mountain lamb brands instead we try to sell a generic spring lamb product that is discounted from early to mid summer every year. There is no pasture beef or milk brand which we could develop with set criteria. Niche markets will only take a small percentage of our produce. However generally what happens is that when a market is developed (eg AA beef) processors take over and make it a generic wholesale product. Instead of paying a premium price they only pay a small premium over there normal base. Our biggest issue is we have a small local consumer base and because of this we cannot develop farmers markets.

I am not sure that Eastern Europe will become the agri powerhouse that some imagine. there is still a lot of political instability. While labour costs are low and mechanization will remove some of these cost as production rises so will there costs. They will have to start increasing the use of fertlizers, chemicals and the added cost of storing produce. In no time scale will be the only advantage they have left.

Milked out

kowtow wrote: »

Farmer Ed wrote: »

You make some very valid points. Just it dose seem like selling ourselves short, taking all this great quality milk and drying it
In to powder. There surely must be other niches that could and should be examined

I think there is universal agreement about that among farmers at least (although not perhaps among the IFA, ICSMA, etc. etc.)

The question isn't whether we want to profit from high value niches... but they are niches, you can't turn them on like taps. It needs a whole new level of self confidence and respect for quality, actually we need to rediscover our love of farming & the land. We need to stop trying to farm money and start remembering how to produce beautiful food.

And that is something that most definitely can be controlled inside the farm gate.

One issue with that is doing it on an exportable scale. It will have to be done in a plant(s) not on farm in order to support the majority of farmers. Not saying it shouldn't be tried but the cost and risks shouldn't be underestimated. AFAIK dg are after getting a contract to supply milk for some norweigian cheese but aside from that in order to get out these value added products they would be looking at acquiring a brand as building from scratch and marketing etc will take years.

Milked out

Looks like supply of grain won't be helping us anyway unless mother nature does some serious wreck
http://theglobaldairy.com/noticias/2016-2017-corn-prices-projected-lower-by-usda-46766/

Waffletraktor

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I am not sure that Eastern Europe will become the agri powerhouse that some imagine. there is still a lot of political instability. While labour costs are low and mechanization will remove some of these cost as production rises so will there costs. They will have to start increasing the use of fertlizers, chemicals and the added cost of storing produce. In no time scale will be the only advantage they have left.

Again, your more than a little out of your depth on large acre grains production.

Farmer Ed

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Again, your more than a little out of your depth on large acre grains production.

This is a milk price thread

Waffletraktor

Farmer Ed wrote: »

This is a milk price thread

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