Unpaid Fare Court Summons and fine

L1011

HotP0pp3r wrote: »

Where can someone like me even get the kind of legal consultant I need?

Any solicitors office. You're going to have to pay though

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

HotP0pp3r

I didn't think an issue like this would require legal representation in court. Is this a criminal legal matter?

corktina

the summons is on it's way though, for first fine. Damn good idea to pay the second one!

Solair

It'd definitely be worth asking IE if they'd drop it if you pay now and apologise for the 'confusion' about your address.

I would however at least consult a solicitor to see where to go from here. It's probably not as expensive as you'd think to just go in and get some basic advice.

You can make up your mind how to proceed from there.

Whatever you do though, do not ignore any more summonses - some judges can get really narky about that kind of thing and see it as not taking the court seriously.

You're unlikely to be excluded from anywhere for non-payment of a public transport ticket, but you might have to keep declaring it on visa applications and ensuring you've documentation to prove that it was just that and it was an oversight / mix up rather than some kind of serious criminal matter.

Just don't ignore it, and whatever you do, don't get 'stroppy' with the judge if you are in court.
Your best bet at this stage is to probably to swallow your pride and just be quite apologetic and hope they'll be nice enough to understand it's a big mix up on your behalf.

You might even get away with a donation to charity in the court.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_trial/court_poor_box.html

This is why you'd need to be looking at getting proper legal help.

If I were you I'd get a few quid together to visit a solicitor and at least have a chat about what the options are and how to go about it.

Proper legal advice is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL if there's any risk of going to court.

lucernarian

+1.

Good post, Solair. It's imperative that the likes of a court summons is taken seriously if anyone wants to avoid a serious problem on their hands or if there is a risk of a massive fine or conviction.

Terrontress

Was the fake address entirely made up? Could you contact IE and tell them that you had moved and ask them to settle on the fines outstanding without court action.

Obviously less possible if you picked a street name off the top of your head.

If you do pay for a solicitor, make sure it's someone who understands the nuances of railway offences. Otherwise you'll pay more than the fine in legal fees and end up with the same anecdotal advice you'll receive here. That's for sure! The solicitor wouldn't even tell you he has no clue.

HotP0pp3r

Terrontress wrote: »

Was the fake address entirely made up? Could you contact IE and tell them that you had moved and ask them to settle on the fines outstanding without court action.

Obviously less possible if you picked a street name off the top of your head.

If you do pay for a solicitor, make sure it's someone who understands the nuances of railway offences. Otherwise you'll pay more than the fine in legal fees and end up with the same anecdotal advice you'll receive here. That's for sure! The solicitor wouldn't even tell you he has no clue.

Its not completely made up, the street name was wrong as its one around the corner from me. The postcode, area and house were all the same

Victor

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It would most likely be Irish Rail prosecuting, using CIÉ Group Solicitors.

HotP0pp3r wrote: »

Is this a criminal legal matter?

Yes. The usual criminal law firms might have someone in that court on the day.

Terrontress

HotP0pp3r wrote: »

Its not completely made up, the street name was wrong as its one around the corner from me. The postcode, area and house were all the same

So there's no reason to say you weren't staying there temporarily and didn't get the documents. I presume a summons would come registered post so the issuing authority will be aware you didn't get it but not why.

Send them in a letter and, as they always say in England, tell them that you have learned your lesson, are ashamed, that such a misunderstanding is reckless and offer to pay the fine and any reasonable costs incurred by them. It will end up costing less than a solicitor.

You'll find that the office based staff will be more reasonable than those on the gateline.

goingnowhere

Just wait under oath and the prosecution asks, why did you give a false address, did you ever reside at this address...

Then this thread will be entered into evidence,

Enjoy Mountjoy...

schnitzelEater

Your attitude I'd very disappointing, OP.

Hopefully you won't be blocked from going to Australia or where ever though.

Next time give you proper address...

juice1304

set your alarm five minutes earlier go to bed earlier and then you will have enough time to get a ticket.

charlemont

Some of ye should be ashamed of yourselves, The OP is asking for advise and half the thread is full of half truths and judgemental rubbish, People trying to frighten the OP with ridiculous tales of outcomes than are unlikely to ever happen. I doubt ye would be as judgemental to ye'r corrupt politicians and paedophile priests..But sure yea go on and pick on the little guy...:cool:

Hilly Bill

markpb wrote: »

This kind of inconsistent behaviour from Irish Rail only serves to undermine their own processes and rules. Why is it so hard for them to be consistent in how they deal with their passengers. Why do individual station staff feel they have the authority to change the rules?

I'm not trying to justify your actions at all but it's easy to understand how people can be caught out when some IR staff let people pay at their destination and others fine you for doing it. Luas/Veoila have a much better approach - if you don't have a ticket, you get fined. There's a single message and it's conveyed well. There's no confusion, no schizophrenic staff sending mixed messages and no passengers wondering who is right and who is wrong.

Its really not that difficult to understand. Luas dont have booking offices on their platforms. They dont have easy going station staff who sometimes might let you away with the few cents if you are short or turning the occasional blind eye when they shouldnt when you arrive at your destination without a ticket. These guys are not the RPU , they are 2 different departments withing the same company. Would you prefer a zero approach from all staff ? I know that it should be like that but there are some within the company that have a heart and are on your side .

Terrontress

goingnowhere wrote: »

Just wait under oath and the prosecution asks, why did you give a false address, did you ever reside at this address...

Then this thread will be entered into evidence,

Enjoy Mountjoy...

Nobody has advised him to lie under oath.

All the advice here is to either try to stop it before it gets to court or else employ a solicitor.

The judge will have too many cases to start asking questions and if the solicitor begins to bring up threads from boards, the judge will kick him out of the courtroom.

Finally, be aware that the OP has maintained his willingness to have bought a ticket. It's all the self-appointed judges on here who have decided otherwise. This thread may go in his favour.

Hilly Bill

HotP0pp3r wrote: »

I was caught without a ticket back in November of last year but at the time I had no job and was attending full time college with no money. I had rushed to the station but didn't have time to get a ticket. Luckily an Irish-rail employee got on the train and fined me 102.80 even though I told him why I hadn't paid and had the fare with me. When he asked for my details I gave the wrong address as I couldn't afford the fine and I was so annoyed at the time, then nothing came of it.

However; now doing work experience, on my way in this morning to the Docklands station, where the guy who usually works there lets you pay at the machine when you get off, there was an army waiting behind the barriers ready to pounce on any passenger avoiding the 2.80 train fare. I told them I've never had an issue here before and he told me to stand aside and then fined me and rang "his" office as he called it. The previous fine showed up but with the wrong address and this time I'd given the right one so he confirmed it. He told me the fines increased to 152.84 which I completely agree with but he then tells me he's resending the court summons out to my house.

This sounds like a world of crap for me but I want to know does anyone have any advice or has anyone gone through a similar proceeding and just give me an idea of what these involve. I do not want to lose the chance to go to America or Austrailia for a year over an unpaid train fare...

Thanks

All Irish Rail care about is that you pay the money owed. Pop into them with the payment and that should be the end of it.

Hilly Bill

charlemont wrote: »

Some of ye should be ashamed of yourselves, The OP is asking for advise and half the thread is full of half truths and judgemental rubbish, People trying to frighten the OP with ridiculous tales of outcomes than are unlikely to ever happen. I doubt ye would be as judgemental to ye'r corrupt politicians and paedophile priests..But sure yea go on and pick on the little guy...:cool:

I'll leave that to After Hours.

pipie

charlemont wrote: »

Some of ye should be ashamed of yourselves, The OP is asking for advise and half the thread is full of half truths and judgemental rubbish, People trying to frighten the OP with ridiculous tales of outcomes than are unlikely to ever happen. I doubt ye would be as judgemental to ye'r corrupt politicians and paedophile priests..But sure yea go on and pick on the little guy...:cool:

I don't think the posters here are attacking the "little guy".
I think everyone is a little bemused that he does not seem to have coped himself on....he has been told clearly early on the importance of getting legal advice but now he appears to try and see if it is possible to dodge the solicitors.
So like me, I guess other posters here guess this "little guy" still takes the chances, and he could be back here moaning of his problems again.
Obviously he is young, so hopefully for the he will be grown up before it can happen again, and he will be at least neutral in the community and not taking away from it.

markpb

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its really not that difficult to understand. Luas dont have booking offices on their platforms. They dont have easy going station staff who sometimes might let you away with the few cents if you are short or turning the occasional blind eye when they shouldnt when you arrive at your destination without a ticket. These guys are not the RPU , they are 2 different departments withing the same company. Would you prefer a zero approach from all staff ? I know that it should be like that but there are some within the company that have a heart and are on your side .

The few that have a heart and are on "my" side are doing no one any favours. They lead me to believe that it's okay to buy my ticket at my destination until the day comes that I'm fined by RPU for doing just that.

This isn't about the staff who let people off a few cents, it's about staff who undermine their company's rules and regulations and who let people into a situation which they'll be penalised for.

pipie

markpb wrote: »

The few that have a heart and are on "my" side are doing no one any favours. They lead me to believe that it's okay to buy my ticket at my destination until the day comes that I'm fined by RPU for doing just that.

This isn't about the staff who let people off a few cents, it's about staff who undermine their company's rules and regulations and who let people into a situation which they'll be penalised for.

I'm reminded of this thread from a few days ago......

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056926414

Hilly Bill

markpb wrote: »

The few that have a heart and are on "my" side are doing no one any favours. They lead me to believe that it's okay to buy my ticket at my destination until the day comes that I'm fined by RPU for doing just that.

This isn't about the staff who let people off a few cents, it's about staff who undermine their company's rules and regulations and who let people into a situation which they'll be penalised for.

You have missed the point that its the RPU staff that fine you not the chap in say Docklands in the booking office. Do you want him to hold you there whilst he calls the RPU for you so that you can pay a fine? Or do you want him to just let you pay there instead ?

LXFlyer

I think what markpb would like is station staff to be given the same powers as the RPU and a consistent approach be applied. In other words - no ticket = fine (except where not possible to purchase a ticket).

Frankly that would eliminate any confusion.

TheChrisD

schemingbohemia wrote: »

It is an issue, you should never be paying at your destination.

From what you've stated I would doubt this is only the second time you haven't paid your fare, you seem to always wait until you get to Docklands to pay, why? Are you always late or are you chancing your arm that there might be open gates, no-one looking at Docklands?

Do you not realise that most of the stations on the M3 Parkway line are generally unmanned and the gates are open? I for one, haven't seen Dunboyne manned anytime I've gone through in about 3 months now.

AlekSmart

pipie wrote: »

I don't think the posters here are attacking the "little guy".
I think everyone is a little bemused that he does not seem to have coped himself on....he has been told clearly early on the importance of getting legal advice but now he appears to try and see if it is possible to dodge the solicitors.
.

Not for the first time,am I prompted to enquire what educational course the OP has pursued,as it is somewhat baffling to note the numbers of similar threads involving Students.

It does point a rather quivering finger in the direction of our Education System,when so many of it's output appear to suffer from similar levels of inability to adapt to Public Transport.

partyatmygaff

AlekSmart wrote: »

Not for the first time,am I prompted to enquire what educational course the OP has pursued,as it is somewhat baffling to note the numbers of similar threads involving Students.

It does point a rather quivering finger in the direction of our Education System,when so many of it's output appear to suffer from similar levels of inability to adapt to Public Transport.

The vast majority of problems result from either their ridiculous Student Travelcard and/or inconsistencies.

schemingbohemia

TheChrisD wrote: »

Do you not realise that most of the stations on the M3 Parkway line are generally unmanned and the gates are open? I for one, haven't seen Dunboyne manned anytime I've gone through in about 3 months now.

And all the ticket machines are broken all the time?

HotP0pp3r

AlekSmart wrote: »

Not for the first time,am I prompted to enquire what educational course the OP has pursued,as it is somewhat baffling to note the numbers of similar threads involving Students.

It does point a rather quivering finger in the direction of our Education System,when so many of it's output appear to suffer from similar levels of inability to adapt to Public Transport.

I don't see what difference it makes what educational course any student is pursuing in any cases similar to this. Maybe they don't adapt because of the fact that ticket prices are so high now and there are no student discounts on train fares

lucernarian

AlekSmart wrote: »

Not for the first time,am I prompted to enquire what educational course the OP has pursued,as it is somewhat baffling to note the numbers of similar threads involving Students.

It does point a rather quivering finger in the direction of our Education System,when so many of it's output appear to suffer from similar levels of inability to adapt to Public Transport.

Sadly it's not the first time that logical fallacies like "our education system must be questionable if regular fare evasion crops up among students" creep their way onto boards...

Losty Dublin

HotP0pp3r wrote: »

I don't see what difference it makes what educational course any student is pursuing in any cases similar to this. Maybe they don't adapt because of the fact that ticket prices are so high now and there are no student discounts on train fares

The point Alek is making here is that it's how supposedly educated student type are often stopped on elementary mistakes such as buying tickets for friends on their own ID, not carrying or having any student ID, buying/using children tickets, carrying out of date college/student ID's etc. As these same issues come up for Luas, Irish Rail and Dublin Bus we can only conclude that it can't always be the fault of the transport company.