Unpaid Fare Court Summons and fine

HotP0pp3r · 17-04-2013 10:15am #1

I was caught without a ticket back in November of last year but at the time I had no job and was attending full time college with no money. I had rushed to the station but didn't have time to get a ticket. Luckily an Irish-rail employee got on the train and fined me 102.80 even though I told him why I hadn't paid and had the fare with me. When he asked for my details I gave the wrong address as I couldn't afford the fine and I was so annoyed at the time, then nothing came of it.

However; now doing work experience, on my way in this morning to the Docklands station, where the guy who usually works there lets you pay at the machine when you get off, there was an army waiting behind the barriers ready to pounce on any passenger avoiding the 2.80 train fare. I told them I've never had an issue here before and he told me to stand aside and then fined me and rang "his" office as he called it. The previous fine showed up but with the wrong address and this time I'd given the right one so he confirmed it. He told me the fines increased to 152.84 which I completely agree with but he then tells me he's resending the court summons out to my house.

This sounds like a world of crap for me but I want to know does anyone have any advice or has anyone gone through a similar proceeding and just give me an idea of what these involve. I do not want to lose the chance to go to America or Austrailia for a year over an unpaid train fare...

Thanks

goingnowhere · 17-04-2013 10:24am

You didn't buy a ticket, you got caught twice.

If you can't afford it, walk. If you arrive too late to get a ticket, wait for the next train.

You gave false details, and got caught out

100 euro for no ticket
50 euro for giving false details
2.80 fare owed

As the summons for November will now be issued to the correct address, the game is up and you will end up in court.

Conviction up to 1000 euro and/or 3 months in jail.

Given you gave false details and have been caught twice it doesn't look good.

Duckjob · 17-04-2013 10:26am

Advice ?

Stop dodging fares and pay your way. Problem solved.

corktina · 17-04-2013 10:32am

you wont get much sympathy on here! (not from me anyway)

HotP0pp3r · 17-04-2013 10:41am

goingnowhere wrote: »

You didn't buy a ticket, you got caught twice.

If you can't afford it, walk. If you arrive too late to get a ticket, wait for the next train.

You gave false details, and got caught out

100 euro for no ticket
50 euro for giving false details
2.80 fare owed

As the summons for November will now be issued to the correct address, the game is up and you will end up in court.

Conviction up to 1000 euro and/or 3 months in jail.

Given you gave false details and have been caught twice it doesn't look good.

Yeah the fine is perfectly grand and I'm willing to pay but conviction for unpaid train fare is going to ruin my life and I'd just like to find out if there's anyone that has been in court over an issue like this and has some clue of what happens

goingnowhere wrote: »

Stop dodging fares and pay your way. Problem solved.

Perfect thanks. It's not an issue at the docklands station to pay there except for today

HotP0pp3r · 17-04-2013 10:41am

corktina wrote: »

you wont get much sympathy on here! (not from me anyway)

Not looking for sympathy looking for someone who has been through the same court process....

corktina · 17-04-2013 10:44am

the trouble is , it IS an issue, there are signs everywhere "no ticket, no travel"

edit...sensible advice...get a solicitor

pclive · 17-04-2013 10:54am

Its good to hear that the revenue protection unit are out in force:)

schemingbohemia · 17-04-2013 10:59am

HotP0pp3r wrote: »

Yeah the fine is perfectly grand and I'm willing to pay but conviction for unpaid train fare is going to ruin my life and I'd just like to find out if there's anyone that has been in court over an issue like this and has some clue of what happens

Perfect thanks. It's not an issue at the docklands station to pay there except for today

It is an issue, you should never be paying at your destination.

From what you've stated I would doubt this is only the second time you haven't paid your fare, you seem to always wait until you get to Docklands to pay, why? Are you always late or are you chancing your arm that there might be open gates, no-one looking at Docklands?

HotP0pp3r · 17-04-2013 11:12am

Wow useless advice from useless people. I'm really just curious about what the court process involves

corktina · 17-04-2013 11:13am

told you so....

Fred Swanson · 17-04-2013 11:13am

This post has been deleted.

the groutch · 17-04-2013 11:15am

if you pay the fine in full literally straight away, you might get lucky and have them not issue the summons.
the courts don't really want to waste time on relatively minor cases like this.

markpb · 17-04-2013 11:16am

HotP0pp3r wrote: »

It's not an issue at the docklands station to pay there except for today

This kind of inconsistent behaviour from Irish Rail only serves to undermine their own processes and rules. Why is it so hard for them to be consistent in how they deal with their passengers. Why do individual station staff feel they have the authority to change the rules?

I'm not trying to justify your actions at all but it's easy to understand how people can be caught out when some IR staff let people pay at their destination and others fine you for doing it. Luas/Veoila have a much better approach - if you don't have a ticket, you get fined. There's a single message and it's conveyed well. There's no confusion, no schizophrenic staff sending mixed messages and no passengers wondering who is right and who is wrong.

Con Logue · 17-04-2013 11:17am

What did the OP expect? Soothing murmurs of sympathy and a cast iron method of avoiding a criminal record? I often wonder is learned helplessness and evasion of responsibility is a result of being carted around in Mammy's Taxi right up to going to college and beyond.

Best advice I can give is contact a solicitor, pronto.

Solair · 17-04-2013 11:19am

HotP0pp3r wrote: »

Wow useless advice from useless people. I'm really just curious about what the court process involves

It would be the District Court, so a little bit Judge Judy style and by that I mean it wouldn't be a jury trial or anything like that.

You need to consult a solicitor ASAP. It's not something you should go in unprepared for.

Also if you've missed a court summons due to a false address that's kinda complicating matters further and may go against you.

Get a speaking solicitor this morning!

I would also refrain from incriminating yourself further by posting online about an impending case!!

schemingbohemia · 17-04-2013 11:21am

markpb wrote: »

This kind of inconsistent behaviour from Irish Rail only serves to undermine their own processes and rules. Why is it so hard for them to be consistent in how they deal with their passengers. Why do individual station staff feel they have the authority to change the rules?

You're accepting the word of a fare dodger that it's ok to pay at destination at Docklands? He might be telling the truth, remember though this is Ireland where rules aren't the final word on anything and everything can be an exception......just look at the Gardai having a word with people driving in bus lanes or parking illegally or speeding, how many points have been quashed etc, we don't do rules in Ireland which has led us to the sorry state we find ourselves in today......of course i'll be renting out the other 2 bedrooms in my house, of course I always get a bonus of 30k a year, thanks I'll have that huge mortgage now please.....

schemingbohemia · 17-04-2013 11:22am

Solair wrote: »

It would be the District Court, so a little bit Judge Judy style and by that I mean it wouldn't be a jury trial or anything like that.

You need to consult a solicitor ASAP. It's not something you should go in unprepared for.

Also if you've missed a court summons due to a false address that's kinda complicating matters further and may go against you.

Get a speaking solicitor this morning!

I would also refrain from incriminating yourself further by posting online about an impending case!!

Yeah cause the name is hotpopper on the summons....

Fred Swanson · 17-04-2013 11:24am

This post has been deleted.

Solair · 17-04-2013 11:26am

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Yeah cause the name is hotpopper on the summons....

From the circumstances of the case anyone with half a brain could figure out who he/she is and just use all the stuff posted!

Station names, dates, missed summons, false address, a student etc

It's not like there are thousands of cases or something ! Ireland's a small place

I mean, all it would take is a state solicitor to say (and I remind you you're under oath) are you "insert username"?

I wouldn't suggest posting details of anything that might end up in court online, ever!

the groutch · 17-04-2013 11:27am

markpb wrote: »

Luas/Veoila have a much better approach - if you don't have a ticket, you get fined. There's a single message and it's conveyed well. There's no confusion, no schizophrenic staff sending mixed messages and no passengers wondering who is right and who is wrong.

unless you're an alco, druggie, or look like you might kill someone.
Veoila are even more inconsistent.

HotP0pp3r · 17-04-2013 11:49am

schemingbohemia wrote: »

You're accepting the word of a fare dodger

Yeah, those darn fare dodgers. Always up to no good. You make it sound as if I'm a serious criminal......

HotP0pp3r · 17-04-2013 11:51am

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Would you know what the punishment is usually for an offense like this??

Solair · 17-04-2013 11:51am

HotP0pp3r wrote: »

Yeah, those darn fare dodgers. Always up to no good. You make it sound as if I'm a serious criminal......

Given that you missed a summons, I would really take this more seriously!

You're not going for a chat with the school principal. A district court judge can quite easily throw someone in jail for really minor stuff.

Solicitor ASAP!!

You need a damage limitation strategy from someone who is a legal professional and proper legal advice.

These really minor things like unpaid fines, TV licenses etc can end up turning nasty if left too long!

Whether you think the law is reasonable or not is irrelevant at this stage. That's something you need to complain to politicians about.

Your situation at the moment is you have to deal with what is there and you absolutely need to take it seriously and get legal advice.

Nobody can advise you about likely outcomes on here. It depends on how the cases are presented in court on the day etc

Absolutely 100% definitely get legal advice ASAP though!
It's the only way you'll know exactly what your options are and if a court appearance could be avoided at this stage.

pclive · 17-04-2013 12:07pm

Oh and do let us know how you get on OP:)

mtjm · 17-04-2013 12:20pm

HotP0pp3r wrote: »

Wow useless advice from useless people. I'm really just curious about what the court process involves

What did u expect? you broke the law, thought you could get away with it, and calling us useless?

MrDerp · 17-04-2013 12:29pm

Here fella, relax about the 'ruining your life thing' - this is a minor offense.

Don't believe what you hear about the States and Australia.

As a guideline, Australia care about offenses where either:
1. You were sentenced to a year or more in prison, or
2. The offense carries a one year prison punishment in Australia

In the US, you must be convicted of a felony (a crime considered a felony in the US) to have an issue (so it's a similar situation), with some exceptions
e.g. DUIs are not a felony, but repeated DUIs can lead to exclusion
Any conviction for drug possession will cause you issues

Unpaid parking fines / train fines are misdemeanor offenses, so don't worry. However, it's better to declare any convictions on entry. I've heard of people being denied entry for not declaring an offense, usually ignorant of the facts and hiding something small because like you they thought something like a conviction unpaid fines could deny them entry.

Edit: I'm not saying be casual about having to go to court, I'm just telling you to forget about the US/OZ thing and concentrate on the issue at hand, a summons to an Irish court.

oisindoyle · 17-04-2013 12:57pm

HotP0pp3r wrote: »

Yeah, those darn fare dodgers. Always up to no good. You make it sound as if I'm a serious criminal......

There's no point coming on here asking for advice and people telling you what you did was wrong and then calling them "useless".

The reality is you didn't pay for a train journey ,gave a wrong address and now you are looking for some sort of sympathy.

You STOLE from Irish Rail ,that's the reality of the situation.Why should everyone else whp takes the train pay and you think it's ok to dodge the fare?

You also said you are a full time student and havn't got the money ,well if you havent got the money walk.

I bet you have enough money to go for a few drinks with your mates during the week and weekend though !

partyatmygaff · 17-04-2013 1:02pm

The thing is he asked a very specific question and most of the posts he's gotten back in the reply are from people who almost seem to be relishing in his predicament.

Which is what happens in most threads about fines, for some strange reason. Even fines that aren't deserved (not that that applies to this thread) get the same response from people on this forum.

I'd send off an email to railusers.ie, they're pretty knowledgeable when it comes to situations like this.

Victor · 17-04-2013 1:32pm

Folks, guilt has already been admitted, so lay off the judgemental stuff.

HotP0pp3r wrote: »

Wow useless advice from useless people. I'm really just curious about what the court process involves

You need these people to help you. Abusing them isn't going to get you what you want

Moderator

HotP0pp3r · 17-04-2013 2:12pm

Where can someone like me even get the kind of legal consultant I need?

Unpaid Fare Court Summons and fine

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