Young Pregnant Woman murder-suicide

Chemical Burn

Steve O wrote: »

No gender war starting meant here, but would we be talking about the Dad in the same way if it was him? Do men get to blame depression or hormones etc?

Absolutely reprehensible thing to do either way, plenty of people that suffer from depression don't go murdering their kids. The kids should've been taken off her after that facebook message.

yes but when a gentleman is homicidal / mentally ill he must be removed from society

when a female is mentally ill, let's all help her get over it

Madam_X

Chemical Burn wrote: »

When that guy in America ran amok and killed kids, his mother then himself everyone said how much of scumbag he was and how bad he was

No, "everyone" didn't. It seemed highly likely to me he was insane.

Chemical Burn wrote: »

if it was her boyfriend that did this, and killed himself, would you be so sympathetic ?? that's what I though

How is that what you "though" when you didn't actually let her answer?

Steve O wrote: »

No gender war starting meant here, but would we be talking about the Dad in the same way if it was him?

I did in me last post to this thread. Insanity is gender-blind.

Of course it's just speculation that this woman was having a breakdown, but it seems highly unlikely that she was sane.

Chemical Burn wrote: »

yes but when a gentleman is homicidal / mentally ill he must be removed from society

when a female is mentally ill, let's all help her get over it

Who says that?

Chemical Burn

Madam_X wrote: »

Who says that?

Everyone, society in general. Look at the unfair sentencing in Irish courts. Look at the state of gentlemen's Prison in Comparison to the womens

Steve O

Madam_X wrote: »

I did in me last post to this thread. Insanity is gender-blind.

Of course it's just speculation that this woman was having a breakdown, but it seems highly unlikely that she was sane.

Insanity is gender Neutral I agree, but Gender bias when it comes to crime is a societal issue that must be tackled as we all face the same hurdles when it comes to depression. Perhaps a subject for another thread.

The biggest issue for me is why the kids weren't taken off her after that facebook post.

Czarcasm

Chemical Burn wrote: »

Everyone, society in general.

Ahh Jesus, come on!

Look at the unfair sentencing in Irish courts.

So many individual cases we could be here all night, this would be going way off topic though.

Look at the state of gentlemen's Prison in Comparison to the womens

There's fcukall in the difference CB tbh.

Chemical Burn

Czarcasm wrote: »

Ahh Jesus, come on!




So many individual cases we could be here all night, this would be going way off topic though.




There's fcukall in the difference CB tbh.

men have concrete cells with matress

women have proper beds with private en suites and pets and children can be brought in

PizzamanIRL

It's a pity she didn't survive the fall and live with pain for the rest of her life, the selfish cow.

Depression or not, why kill the kids too?

Madam_X

Chemical Burn wrote: »

Everyone, society in general.

You don't, I don't, plenty don't.

Look at the unfair sentencing in Irish courts.

Yeh, like Anthony Lyons.
I'm not denying there's a bias, but the way it gets brought up in such a non constructive way by people who have no intention of doing anything to address it, even though they're also part of the society they blame it on... it's like they're trying to start a gender war tbh.

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

Depression or not, why kill the kids too?

Well depression (and it seems more like a severe breakdown) was likely the cause of it.

Steve O

Madam_X wrote: »

I'm not denying there's a bias, but the way it gets brought up in such a non constructive way by people who have no intention of doing anything to address it, even though they're also part of the society they blame it on... it's like they're trying to start a gender war tbh.

Oh there have been, not on boards where a lot of people spend their time though.

The thing is, you'd be labelled a sexist fairly quick if you tried to bring this issue up. Politicians wouldn't touch it with a barge pole due to various womens groups protesting it. Fathers 4 justice in the UK is a perfect example, they are frequently made fun of for their efforts for fair and equal treatment in the courts.

Also, you made a great example of how impartial you are by saying "it's like they're trying to start a gender war tbh". Which is typical of people that try to dismiss people in a haze of sexist and misogynist accusations.

Chemical Burn

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

It's a pity she didn't survive the fall and live with pain for the rest of her life, the selfish cow.

Depression or not, why kill the kids too?

hear hear

clairefontaine

She was a single mother with three kids under three years old and pregnant with another one?

Well, that is depressing and stressful. And only 23 years old.

Jesus Christ. That is a picture that needs a lot of prozac.

Why did she kill the kids too? Maybe in her irrational mind death was better than abandonment. Maybe she didn't know who she could leave them with, a life of foster care? Maybe she thought death was better?

Beautiful kids and just so unnecessary. Very very sad.

Chemical Burn

Steve O wrote: »

Oh there have been, not on boards where a lot of people spend their time though.

The thing is, you'd be labelled a sexist fairly quick if you tried to bring this issue up. Politicians wouldn't touch it with a barge pole due to various womens groups protesting it. Fathers 4 justice in the UK is a perfect example, they are frequently made fun of for their efforts for fair and equal treatment in the courts.

Also, you made a great example of how impartial you are by saying "it's like they're trying to start a gender war tbh". Which is atypical of people that try to dismiss people in a haze of sexist and misogynist accusations.

yes. this. gent

Madam_X

Steve O wrote: »

The thing is, you'd be labelled a sexist fairly quick if you tried to bring this issue up.

You would? By whom?

Politicians wouldn't touch it with a barge pole due to various womens groups protesting it.

For certain?

Fathers 4 justice in the UK is a perfect example, they are frequently made fun of for their efforts for fair and equal treatment in the courts.

By whom?

Also, you made a great example of how impartial you are by saying "it's like they're trying to start a gender war tbh". Which is atypical of people that try to dismiss people in a haze of sexist and misogynist accusations.

I defended two fathers who did similar, despite the claim that "everyone" would castigate fathers more. And I said insanity is gender-blind. And I said I'm aware of a bias.
Is there dismissal of people on this thread in a haze of sexist and misogynist accusations?
Starting a gender war could apply to men or women - it's not particular to one gender.

All I'm saying is "And if it was a man who did it, people would be up in arms" is too vague. Which people? Why? Wouldn't examining it be more constructive? I'm not applying this to you, but some blame women. Gotta disappoint them though and say it ain't all down to women - by a long shot. Chemical Burn was the one who told someone they'd castigate the father for it without even waiting for an answer as to whether they would or not, which looked pretty inflammatory and gender-war starting to me.

Czarcasm

Chemical Burn wrote: »

men have concrete cells with matress

women have proper beds with private en suites and pets and children can be brought in

Here CB, a rather unique perspective on the UK prison system, since it IS the UK we're talking about here, she went in as a man and came out as a woman, some 21 years later-

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jailed-as-a-man-released-as-a-woman-robert-hilton-becomes-rebecca-hilton-in-prison-8496049.html

Chemical Burn

Madam_X wrote: »

You would? By whom?

Feminists

Madam_X wrote: »

For certain?

Definitely

Chemical Burn

clairefontaine wrote: »

She was a single mother with three kids under three years old and pregnant with another one?

Well, that is depressing and stressful. And only 23 years old.

Jesus Christ. That is a picture that needs a lot of prozac.

Why did she kill the kids too? Maybe in her irrational mind death was better than abandonment. Maybe she didn't know who she could leave them with, a life of foster care? Maybe she thought death was better?

Beautiful kids and just so unnecessary. Very very sad.

There is no justification. If a man murdered his kids would you feel the same sympathy? Well, would you ??

Madam_X

Chemical Burn wrote: »

There is no justification. If a man murdered his kids would you feel the same sympathy? Well, would you ??

Why do you keep ****ing asking that? Totally looks like you hope they wouldn't.

Chemical Burn wrote: »

Feminists



Definitely

First one ok. Second one... possibly just something you assume.

Chemical Burn

Madam_X wrote: »

Why do you keep ****ing asking that? Totally looks like you hope they wouldn't.

You haven't answered me straight, that's why

clairefontaine

Chemical Burn wrote: »

There is no justification. If a man murdered his kids would you feel the same sympathy? Well, would you ??

I beg your pardon. I am not on trial here and I do not have to answer to YOU about whom I feel sympathy for.

Who annointed you bishop of after hours?

Chemical Burn

clairefontaine wrote: »

I beg your pardon. I am not on trial here and I do not have to answer to YOU about whom I feel sympathy for.

Who annointed you bishop of after hours?

Exactly, you're one of those "people" who would bash a gentleman for doing it but feel sorry for a female who did it

Steve O

Madam_X wrote: »

You would? By whom?

For certain?

By whom?

Not sure what you mean here - there is absolutely nothing in my posts to this thread indicating I'm impartial. I defended two fathers who did similar actually, despite the claim that "everyone" would castigate fathers more. And I said insanity is gender-blind. And I said I'm aware of a bias.
When you say "atypical" do you mean "typical"? If so, can't see where I've tried to dismiss people in a haze of sexist and misogynist accusations.
Starting a gender war could apply to men or women - it's not particular to one gender.

All I'm saying is "And if it was a man who did it, people would be up in arms" is too vague. Which people? Why? Wouldn't examining it be more constructive? I'm not applying this to you, but some blame women. Gotta disappoint them though and say it ain't all down to women - by a long shot. Chemical Burn was the one who told someone they'd castigate the father for it without even waiting for an answer as to whether they would or not, which looked pretty inflammatory to me.

Typo on my part.

I know as much as anyone that women aren't the sole reason. Which is why I said it was a societal issue not a "blame women" issue, I also said I wasn't trying to start a gender war so I don't know why you said that.

Madam_X

Chemical Burn wrote: »

You haven't answered me straight, that's why

Now now stop pretending stuff.
As I've made clear, I would, and gave examples - inconvenient for ya? Are you asking any male posters who have sympathy for her whether they'd feel the same re men?

Does it make you sad that there are plenty of people, more specifically women, who would have the same sympathy for a man who did the same?

Steve O wrote: »

Typo on my part.

I know as much as anyone that women aren't the sole reason. Which is why I said it was a societal issue not a "blame women" issue, I also said I wasn't trying to start a gender war so I don't know why you said that.

I didn't say you were - I made that clear by saying that I wasn't accusing you of blaming women, just that some do unfortunately. Chemical Burn clearly is doing so - and is clearly trying to start a gender war.
Look at his posts ffs - he's even resorting to accusing people of thinking things he has no proof of, and pretending people haven't answered him when they have.

Whatsernamex33

No one doesn't and won't ever know how that lady felt when that she took her own life and the lives of her children and her unborn child. She was 23, a single mother, hormones going wild because of the pregnancy. I'm not justifying her taking the kids lives, but in her mental state, she obviously saw differently. She considered suicide, she committed suicide. She didn't want to be without her children. In her mental state, of course it made sense to her.

When you're suffering from depression, you think about and see life differently. When you're suicidal, you see no way out. You feel trapped and death seems like the best answer. To escape it all. In this lady's situation, no one knows how she was suffering. She sent messages on Facebook looking for help. No one took it seriously enough. She could've looked at those children, and thought that death was the best for those poor kids too, extremely sad as it sounds. Maybe she had money problems. Maybe she felt she couldn't provide efficiently for them, being a single mother. Maybe she worried about their futures. In her mental state as I said, maybe she saw no way or solution for the family. You, I, her family don't know her situation or what was her mental state. People can hide depression well.
I think it's very unfair to call her a murderer. It wasn't right, yes, but don't label someone when you don't and won't ever know their story. Speculation is only ever, speculation. Hear say.

I feel for the children's dad, their family, and also for the lady and her poor children.

Czarcasm

Chemical Burn wrote: »

Exactly, you're one of those "people" who would bash a gentleman for doing it but feel sorry for a female who did it

Nice use of words there CB, if you were going to say female, would you not also need to have said male, instead of gentleman?

I'm a guy and if a guy had done exactly the same thing, I'd have had no sympathy for him either. What this girl did was chose to die by suicide after she had committed pre-meditated murder.

We can speculate all we like as to her mental state, but like I said before- there's an awful lot of information we're not privy to, and chances are we never will be.

Is it necessary to start some silly equality war of words over the issue- absolutely not.

Da Shins Kelly

What in the actual fcuk is going on here?

Steve O

Madam_X wrote: »

I didn't say you were - I made that clear by saying that I wasn't accusing you of blaming women, just that some do unfortunately. Chemical Burn clearly is doing so - and is clearly trying to start a gender war.
Look at his posts ffs - he's even resorting to accusing people of thinking things he has no proof of, and pretending people haven't answered him when they have.

I never said I agreed with him.

Chemical Burn

Whatsernamex33 wrote: »

No one doesn't and won't ever know how that lady felt when that she took her own life and the lives of her children and her unborn child. She was 23, a single mother, hormones going wild because of the pregnancy. I'm not justifying her taking the kids lives, but in her mental state, she obviously saw differently. She considered suicide, she committed suicide. She didn't want to be without her children. In her mental state, of course it made sense to her.

When you're suffering from depression, you think about and see life differently. When you're suicidal, you see no way out. You feel trapped and death seems like the best answer. To escape it all. In this lady's situation, no one knows how she was suffering. She sent messages on Facebook looking for help. No one took it seriously enough. She could've looked at those children, and thought that death was the best for those poor kids too, extremely sad as it sounds. Maybe she had money problems. Maybe she felt she couldn't provide efficiently for them, being a single mother. Maybe she worried about their futures. In her mental state as I said, maybe she saw no way or solution for the family. You, I, her family don't know her situation or what was her mental state. People can hide depression well.
I think it's very unfair to call her a murderer. It wasn't right, yes, but don't label someone when you don't and won't ever know their story. Speculation is only ever, speculation. Hear say.

I feel for the children's dad, their family, and also for the lady and her poor children.

If she truly cared about her kids and their welfare she could have entrusted them to a family member. The news article said she missed her ex boyfriend, if she loved him so much would ha not have been a suitable parent for them?

Czarcasm

Chemical Burn wrote: »

If she truly cared about her kids and their welfare she could have entrusted them to a family member. The news article said she missed her ex boyfriend, if she loved him so much would ha not have been a suitable parent for them?

CB don't believe everything you read and see in the newspapers and the media either. How many times in just the last year alone have they flip flopped over child kidnapping cases and child murders when it turned out their original story was wrong?

bodice ripper

Chemical Burn wrote: »

There is no justification. If a man murdered his kids would you feel the same sympathy? Well, would you ??

I would. Any parent who suddenly kills their kids and themselves is clearly deeply unwell.

Da Shins Kelly

This has nothing to do with her being a woman.