Sad Tales Of Emigration

Anynama141

SeanW wrote: »

And that's the problem. The banks should never have been nationalised or guaranteed. In a civlised country, like what the US was before the financial crash, gov't involvment in the banking sector was broadly limited to the FDIC or Federal Deposit Insurance Corportation. So a bank either made its way on their own, or they failed, in which case the FDIC stepped in, took over the bank and sold its assets to pay off retail depositors (who were insured up to $100,000 anyway) and everyone else (equityholders, bondholders etc) were told to go sling their hook.

Yup, I totally agree.

SeanW wrote: »

It's not the emigrants fault in the OP that this was not done here.

Agreed.

SeanW wrote: »

Besides, look at it from their POV they may have had two choices.
With perhaps €10,000 in savings and maybe 10+ times that in debt they could either.

1. Pay the 10,000 to the bank but still never be able to pay the mortgage, continue to slide into bankruptcy and extreme poverty through what might be years of unemployment. So they file for insolvency protection, which results in them having to get rid of their car, rarely if ever do anything fun (since it would cost money) and have a bank overseer watching every cent they spend for the next 11 years to make sure they're not spending money on anything that could be used to pay down a debt they would never be able to pay anyway. Oh and BTW if they were offered a job in the 'States or somewhere they couldn't take it because they could never get the money to finance the move, i.e. their savings are gone.
2. Get the hell out with what little money they have left and try to pick up the pieces of their lives.

Any sane person would choose option 2.

A sane person with no compunction about leaving their debts to the Irish taxpayer, yeah, I suppose so. And of course if they are going to walk into well-paid jobs like the poster suggested, there's no reason why they shouldn't resume making their mortgage payments from the USA. But apparently the plan is to just leave us with the tab for their mistake.

UCDVet

Anynama141 wrote: »

Yup, I totally agree.

Agreed.

A sane person with no compunction about leaving their debts to the Irish taxpayer, yeah, I suppose so. And of course if they are going to walk into well-paid jobs like the poster suggested, there's no reason why they shouldn't resume making their mortgage payments from the USA. But apparently the plan is to just leave us with the tab for their mistake.

If I owe money to X and I don't pay X - I'm cheating X out of money. If X and I have an agreement that says I'll either pay him X or he'll keep Y and reclaim Z (like keep Y - my down payment and Z - my house) then, if I don't pay him, I'm just exercising one of my legal options (to pay him or to not pay him). In that case, neither is right or wrong, they are simply options. I had a mortgage and there was no 'I promise to try hard to repay this' clause. It was 'either I will do this or failing that, this other thing will happen'.

Anyway, if I owe money to X and the government says, 'Okay - all the tax payers are going to cover debts owed to X' - I'm sorry, that's not on me. If you are a tax payer and don't like it, talk to your elected officials, not me.

Anynama141

UCDVet wrote: »

If I owe money to X and I don't pay X - I'm cheating X out of money. If X and I have an agreement that says I'll either pay him X or he'll keep Y and reclaim Z (like keep Y - my down payment and Z - my house) then, if I don't pay him, I'm just exercising one of my legal options (to pay him or to not pay him). In that case, neither is right or wrong, they are simply options. I had a mortgage and there was no 'I promise to try hard to repay this' clause. It was 'either I will do this or failing that, this other thing will happen'.

The other thing being that the bank repossesses the house and chases you for the rest of the money you borrowed. If you do a runner to avoid that debt when you are able to pay (even some of) it, that looks a lot like theft/fraud to me.

UCDVet wrote: »

Anyway, if I owe money to X and the government says, 'Okay - all the tax payers are going to cover debts owed to X' - I'm sorry, that's not on me. If you are a tax payer and don't like it, talk to your elected officials, not me.

Yes, I agree with that in the case where people do their best and can't pay. It's people who can pay but choose not to who grind my gears. Well, them and the Fianna Failure f*ckers who put us here.

anncoates

Emigration isn't all bad.

Half the pictures I see of mongos in bars in Australia wearing GAA shirts means at least some net benefit has accrued to Ireland surely?

Anynama141

anncoates wrote: »

Emigration isn't all bad.

Half the pictures I see of mongos in bars in Australia wearing GAA shirts means at least some net benefit has accrued to Ireland surely?

But they will come home as international mongos.

Gloomtastic!

I'm a childrens entertainer and last Christmas I was hired to entertain some kids at a wedding reception.

Six kids aged 4 - 10, all nieces and nephews of the Irish bride and groom, turned up and none of them could speak a word of english.

That to me was quite sad. :rolleyes:

Anynama141

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

I'm a childrens entertainer and last Christmas I was hired to entertain some kids at a wedding reception.

Six kids aged 4 - 10, all nieces and nephews of the Irish bride and groom, turned up and none of them could speak a word of english.

That to me was quite sad. :rolleyes:

So these were Irish expatriates who were raising their kids without English? That sounds bizarre.

Is this how Americans go on when their kids move across that country in their early 20s to start their own lives?

Gloomtastic!

Anynama141 wrote: »

So these were Irish expatriates who were raising their kids without English? That sounds bizarre.

Indeed. Longest 90 minutes of my life!

Anynama141

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Indeed. Longest 90 minutes of my life!

Crikey. That flies in the face of everything that is known about language acquisition and indeed common sense. You speak to the child in their parent's language at home, and whatever the native language outside. Doing anything else is nuts.

anncoates

Was in a boozer in skiberreen last year and got talking to a nice aul fella who had a few kids that lived in Australia. He said that every sunday night, it was like an informal gathering of parents on the pub who had kids that had emigrated and they sat round the fire remembering them and having a drink and song.

Made me really sad for them.

Einhard

This is a sad tale of immigration to Ireland. A few years ago, a family member passed away. A little while after, whilst visiting the grave, we noticed that there was a tiny little grave beside her one. It was a full size plot, but the actual grave was tiny, as was the headstone. It was covered in marble chippings, and I think there was one or two flowers too. The inscription on the stone was in an Eastern European language, and it was dedicated to Tomasz. It was very sad to think that someone had left home and come all those miles for a better life, and had to bury a baby son born in Ireland.

We never saw the parents at the grave, but they must have tended it because there were always some fresh flowers.

After a few months, I turned up one day to find that the entire grave had disappeared. The marble chippings, the stone; and the disturbed soil raked back into place. I'm not exactly an emotional person, but it broke my heart to think of thse people going back to wherever they had hailed from in order to bury their son on home soil, and all the dreams and hopes and aspirations that had crumbled for them. Still gets me when I think of it.

Einhard

Seriously, isn't there enough threads about the economy and the banks and who's to blame without completely derailing this one? In the last three pages, there's been maybe 3 posts that have been on topic.

GobblyNob

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

Titanic.

Fail.