Sad Tales Of Emigration

ColeTrain

Tonight I was thinking of a few of my friends and family who have gone abroad to seek out a better life for themselves.

Years ago I was in New York with my Mother and Father. We spent a week there. My Mother told me that her Grandfather was buried in Queens. So we set off to visit his grave. Anyways, we went to the cemetery where he was buried. It was huge, think of the graveyards we have here but multiply it by 100+.
Eventually we found it. My great Grandfather was only in his 40's when he passed on and was only in America for a few weeks, my Mother told me it was a stroke that killed him. Back in them times it was obviously too expensive to send him home.
It really was a lonely experience, considering we were probably the only people to ever visit his grave.

I really hope we can turn things around here, so that the next generations won't have similar tales.

R.I.P my Great Grandfather, he set off to make for himself a decent life. My only consolation is that he has a family back in Ireland that know who he was.

3ndahalfof6

Titanic.

Sponge Bob

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

Titanic.

On a technicality most of them didn't emigrate as they never lived in the USA.

My sad story is that it cost as much to ring the mammy from England for 3 minutes as it cost to buy a pint and I was often faced with hard choices. Nowadays there's Skype thank God.

ColeTrain

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

Titanic.

What about it?

WayneMolloy

Get in touch with one of the Irish organisations based in ny, coletrain. They will tend to the grave for you if you ask them nicely (or even make a small donation). Keep it looking well.

ColeTrain

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Get in touch with one of the Irish organisations based in ny, coletrain. They will tend to the grave for you if you ask them nicely (or even make a small donation). Keep it looking well.

Thankfully the grave was maintained. I'm nearly sure my late Grandmother paid for it but I'll have to ask my Mother, I'm not 100% sure.

Stinicker

My aunt, her husband and two teenage children are returning to New York next month having returned to Ireland in 1999 to raise their kids here and enjoy the new so-called prosperous Ireland.

They will most likely never return to Ireland (other than a summer Holiday) having being burned here not once but twice, they left in the early 1980's and she spent 18 years in America before getting married and having two kids and then they returned here for a better future. Both of them have been unemployed with close to two years and they are walking away, the bank will probably foreclose on their house and they said it is not worth repaying the mortgage as there is nothing here for them or their children, they are not poor but like they said why should they live off the dole and erode their savings to repay the banks when the fraudsters who caused the mess gets away scott free.

Together they will earn more in their first month in American than several months of the dole here. They are honest hardworking people who want to work and luckily for them they are all American citizens having become citizens before coming to Ireland for fear something like this would eventually happen.

My mum is very sad as my aunt (father's sister) is one of my mothers dearest friends and she will miss her alot.

Ireland is in a very sad place right now and I'd love to leave myself but personal commitments are holding me here for the time being.

DEFTLEFTHAND

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

Titanic.

So many souls fleeing this desperate isle for a better life in the States. Harland and Wolf cutting corners, weak workmanship all round especially after her sister ship Olympic was brought into dry dock the week after the sinking and was found to have the same faults.

However in history Ismay (White Star Line Boss) her Captain and Officers take the blame.

omicron

Stinicker wrote: »

My aunt, her husband and two teenage children are returning to New York next month having returned to Ireland in 1999 to raise their kids here and enjoy the new so-called prosperous Ireland.

They will most likely never return to Ireland (other than a summer Holiday) having being burned here not once but twice, they left in the early 1980's and she spent 18 years in America before getting married and having two kids and then they returned here for a better future. Both of them have been unemployed with close to two years and they are walking away, the bank will probably foreclose on their house and they said it is not worth repaying the mortgage as there is nothing here for them or their children, they are not poor but like they said why should they live off the dole and erode their savings to repay the banks when the fraudsters who caused the mess gets away scott free.

Together they will earn more in their first month in American than several months of the dole here. They are honest hardworking people who want to work and luckily for them they are all American citizens having become citizens before coming to Ireland for fear something like this would eventually happen.

My mum is very sad as my aunt (father's sister) is one of my mothers dearest friends and she will miss her alot.

Ireland is in a very sad place right now and I'd love to leave myself but personal commitments are holding me here for the time being.

Nice of them to leave here with their savings intact to go earn a fortune in the states and leave the rest of us to pick up the tab.

People may think not paying their mortgage is hurting the people who caused this, but the bank will never lose, the taxpayer will have to pick up their tab.

DEFTLEFTHAND

April O Neill wrote: »

Very few of the Titanic victims were Irish, most were from the UK.

It doesn't change anything, people died because of that Belfast's crowd's incompetence. H & W felt the wrath eventually, in the final age of Ocean Liners nobody would give them a tender. Apps for oil rigs is all they're good for these days.

Oh how the mighty have fallen Billy.

SeanW

Sponge Bob wrote: »

On a technicality most of them didn't emigrate as they never lived in the USA.

Emigration is AFAIK the act of leaving one country. Immigration occurs on the other side, entering and settling in the host country.
So the poor buggers that boarded the Titanic emigrated from Ireland, continental Europe etc. but never immigrated to the U.S.

April O Neill

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

It doesn't change anything, people died because of that Belfast's crowd's incompetence. H & W felt the wrath eventually, in the final age of Ocean Liners nobody would give them a tender. Apps for oil rigs is all they're good for these days.

Oh how the mighty have fallen Billy.

I was actually wrong, never mind.

cartell_best

Finished my LC, June 1989. I was 16, the most innocent and naïve thing I knew from life was that I knew I needed to prepare. Not for the exams, but that I would have to join 5 of my brothers and 6 of my sisters in London. Hindsight? Great thing? It sure is. My Mam and Dad worked all their lives, my Mam cleaning the primary school and my dad working on building a factory. I spent 4 years in London, working and saving, just so I could put enough money together so as I could attend college (took me those years). Out of all of my brothers and sisters (14 in all), I was the first and only one to do the Leaving Cert. I was the first and only one to go to College. My Mam and Dad had fook all, let alone send one of their own to college.

I left Ireland, I remember getting on board a Slattery Bus, for the first time. I couldn't let on to my Mam as I boarded that bus, that I just wanted to cry my eyes out and head the fook back home and to school. The fact I had 5 brothers and 6 sisters in London, made me realise that I needed to move away, as they did, and watch this lady lower her head, yet again. She was after watching soo many of her son's and daughters take that journey to Rosslare and then on to Victoria station. I remember arriving in London, and to this day, the brother I look up to the most, picking me up in the Bus station. Those happy days, even leaving Ireland, and arriving in London, were Happy days, simply because, in order for us to make a life, we had to move abroad.

When I look back, I realise, it wasn't a choice to move away. Like now, a result of circumstance. My heart goes out to all the people that have had to move abroad to make something, of their lives. . I lost precious years with people I love dearly. Nobody moves away from their surroundings, unless it is essential.

rusheen

Quote:
Originally Posted by April O Neill
Very few of the Titanic victims were Irish, most were from the UK

11 young Victims were from a tiny village Lahardane County Mayo . 11 young men and women , neighbours , family members , childhood friends died in the titanic diaster .Their bodies lost at sea.

Lahardane proportionately lost more lives in the 1912 disaster than anywhere else in the world.

FTA69

cartell_best wrote: »

Nobody moves away from their surroundings, unless it is essential.

Or because they're bored and want to see what else life has to offer.

I'm not belittling your experience but it's important to remember that while emigration is a sad thing for a family, community or country it's often a positive thing for the individual involved. It would be a far greater tragedy for a hard working and ambitious young person to waste away at home doing f*ck all. I moved to London in my late teens back when the boom was going strong. I left because I wanted to, because I was sick sh*t of Cork City and doing the same thing every single week. Nowadays I stay here because I've a great job and a standard of living I never had at home.

cartell_best

FTA69 wrote: »

Or because they're bored and want to see what else life has to offer.

I'm not belittling your experience but it's important to remember that while emigration is a sad thing for a family, community or country it's often a positive thing for the individual involved. It would be a far greater tragedy for a hard working and ambitious young person to waste away at home doing f*ck all. I moved to London in my late teens back when the boom was going strong. I left because I wanted to, because I was sick sh*t of Cork City and doing the same thing every single week. Nowadays I stay here because I've a great job and a standard of living I never had at home.

Each to their own.... did you even grasp what the thread was about?? If we were all "sick" of where we live, then where would we be? I wish to God "I was sick of where | lived" and not through necessity.

FTA69

I did grasp what he thread was about, my point is that a subject like emigration isn't necessarily straight-forward. I get homesick, I miss my family and my friends. I miss where I'm from and I regret not being part of those people's lives the same way I was when I lived in Ireland. However, I also am very happy in England and have no desire to return this side of 40. Emigration can be a sad and positive thing in equal measure, that's my point.

MadsL

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

Titanic.

My grandfather (and quite a few others) built the anchor and chain. Tragic it never was used...

DEFTLEFTHAND

MadsL wrote: »

My grandfather (and quite a few others) built the anchor and chain. Tragic it never was used...

It was used they dropped it at Cherbourg and Cobh.

IceFjoem

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

her sister ship Olympic was brought into dry dock the week after the sinking and was found to have the same faults.

An iceberg in its side?

DEFTLEFTHAND

IceFjoem wrote: »

An iceberg in its side?

They used the wrong rivets, time in construction was an issue. Titanic was supposed to be able to float with four compartments full of sea water, that's why these people at H&W claimed she was unsinkable.

The Berg they hit that night tore apart into the fifth compartment, it was game over then, there was no way the ship could stay a float. If these Belfast boys had used the right material this tragedy would never have occurred. Ships of that era used to glide by and occasionally make contact with bergs.

MadsL

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

It was used they dropped it at Cherbourg and Cobh.

The main sea anchor?

DEFTLEFTHAND

MadsL wrote: »

The main sea anchor?

Full anchor was dropped twice while she was in service at her only two calling ports. The water is too shallow to dock at Cobh.

IvySlayer

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

They used the wrong rivets, time in construction was an issue. Titanic was supposed to be able to float with four compartments full of sea water, that's why these people at H&W claimed she was unsinkable.

The Berg they hit that night tore apart into the fifth compartment, it was game over then, there was no way the ship could stay a float. If these Belfast boys had used the right material this tragedy would never have occurred. Ships of that era used to glide by and occasionally make contact with bergs.

Except H+W never advertised it as being unsinkable...

Titanic was sunk, with the tragic loss of life, was because of a whole catalog of errors. From the lookouts in the crows nest leaving their binoculars in port, no moon so vision was reduced, calm sea so no-one could see waves crash against an iceberg, the first officer deciding to do his port-a-round maneuver instead of just turning the ship and gone left, to the captain transmitting the wrong co-ordinates when another ship was nearby...

DEFTLEFTHAND

IvySlayer wrote: »

Except H+W never advertised it as being unsinkable...

Titanic was sunk, with the tragic loss of life, was because of a whole catalog of errors. From the lookouts in the crows nest leaving their binoculars in port, no moon so vision was reduced, calm sea so no-one could see waves crash against an iceberg, the first officer deciding to do his port-a-round maneuver instead of just turning the ship and gone left, to the captain transmitting the wrong co-ordinates when another ship was nearby...

The port around was the wrong decision, there wasn't time to make such a maneuver.The Chief Officer should have hit the berg head on as protocol suggested, he panicked. The Officers on the Bridge that night however weren't aware that this Belfast ship was structurally unsound.

IvySlayer

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The port around was the wrong decision, there wasn't time to make such a maneuver.The Chief Officer should have hit the berg head on as protocol suggested, he panicked. The Officers on the Bridge that night however weren't aware that this Belfast ship was structurally unsound.

It was, port round meant stopping the engines and putting them in reverse and the rudder was basically useless then. Just turning left would've seen him miss the iceberg. Hitting it straight on would of worked too.

DEFTLEFTHAND

IvySlayer wrote: »

It was, port round meant stopping the engines and putting them in reverse and the rudder was basically useless then. Just turning left would've seen him miss the iceberg. Hitting it straight on would of worked too.

A Full Stop was called followed by the hard of port with the engines in astern. At that distance it was suicide, the correct decision was Full Stop and let her hit head on, minimising damage to the ship, that could apparently stay afloat with 4 compartments flooded.

CaraMay

Stinicker wrote: »

. Both of them have been unemployed with close to two years and they are walking away, the bank will probably foreclose on their house and they said it is not worth repaying the mortgage as there is nothing here for them or their children, they are not poor but like they said why should they live off the dole and erode their savings to repay the banks when the fraudsters who caused the mess gets away scott free.
.

You are kidding right? So they have savings and they won't pay their mortgage? They are dumping the house and skipping off to America to leave their debt behind.

If you were a but smarter, you would realise that the tax payers and people left in the country will end up paying for this house through increased bank charges and interest rate hikes. The reason the banks were bailed out in the first place was because people could or would not pay their loans. Your aunt is one of these people even if at a smaller level. She has a cheek talking about developers when she is as bad if not worse.

They are burning us!! total Scumbags.

clairefontaine

CaraMay wrote: »

You are kidding right? So they have savings and they won't pay their mortgage? They are dumping the house and skipping off to America to leave their debt behind.

If you were a but smarter, you would realise that the tax payers and people left in the country will end up paying for this house through increased bank charges and interest rate hikes. The reason the banks were bailed out in the first place was because people could or would not pay their loans. Your aunt is one of these people even if at a smaller level. She has a cheek talking about developers when she is as bad if not worse.

They are burning us!! total Scumbags.

There are a lot of people doing this, not just walking away from mortgages, but personal debts, you name it.

Perhaps if Ireland smartenned up with its insolvency laws, and the people weren't so supine about what the government does, you might have a different set of circumstances. I don't blame anyone for walking away from this crap.

There are lots of people who never bought and are still getting whacked out of their paychecks to cover the fraud of the banks and there has been ZERO consequences for the bankers.

In fact I hope the whole country emigrates. Leave these blood suckers with nothing.

dxhound2005

There must be some sad tales too from the people who are coming into Ireland in their thousands every year.

http://cso.ie/en/newsandevents/pressreleases/2012pressreleases/pressreleasethisisireland-highlightsfromcensus2011part1/

Born abroad

The number of Irish residents who were born outside Ireland continues to increase and stood at 766,770 in 2011 an increase of 25 per cent on 2006, and accounting for 17 per cent of the population.

The groups which showed the largest increase were those already well established in Ireland. The fastest growing groups were Romanians (up 110%), Indians (up 91%), Polish (up 83%), Lithuanians (up 40%) and Latvians (up 43%).

Legs.Eleven

I'm the youngest of 5 kids and 3 of them emigrated in the late 80s/early 90s to the States as my parents couldn't afford to send them to college and there were no job prospects at home. They were all only in their late teens (but seemed so much older to me then) and I was from the ages of 9-12. It was so tough to see them go and I remember at that time not really getting it. I couldn't understand why they'd leave when they'd everything in Ireland (or so I thought) and I think part of me resented them for it. I was very close to them all and it took a lot of getting used to. From having a busy house full of people to 3 of us (my mam had died around that time too).

My brother has carved a great life for himself out there and is happily married with a little kid but we haven't lived in the same country for about 23 years. When I meet him now, it's like talking to a stranger. We're not really in contact and I don't really know who he is or what kind of person he is and visa versa. That's a killer tbh. I feel I miss him the most when he stands in front of me.

My sister's job brought her to Japan where she met her husband. She was always a home bird and she came home about 10 years ago, which I'm so grateful for. Her husband is American but he's very settled now in Ireland and there's no chance they'll ever go back there (I hope).

The other sister, the oldest, moved home the year before I left the country in 2004, so we got to spend one year in Ireland together (the only one in 23 years). She had two kids there but the economy changed and they had to move back to the States. Last year we did the Camino De Santiago together and it was like getting to know my sister again as adults. Twas a mad one but great.

I've been away from Ireland now myself about 8 years and although I play with the idea of going home, I know that realistically won't be the case for a long time and I'm okay with that. I'm happy.

I suppose the saddest part for me is the distance between myself and my two siblings in the states, one of which I barely know and not seeing my nieces and nephews growing up but I'm so grateful I've two siblings at home in Ireland still. I'm also sad for my dad; his own dad emigrated and died in NY in the 50s as well as 3 of his own siblings (and cousins, aunties etc.). I hate to say goodbye to him at Dublin airport as I know it kills him and he misses us terribly. Dublin airport has been almost like a second home to my family with the amount of comings and goings over the years.

Saying that, emigration is so much part of my family that it's probably not as traumatic for us as other families. Before I left it was almost expected that I would. We've all built lives for ourselves elsewhere and my dad knows we're all happy where we are and I know this gives him comfort. I don't see our emigration as a tragedy. We have live we never could have at home. I can't see us all living in the same country again but I'd prefer not to think about that. Such is life in Ireland right now.

clairefontaine

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I'm the youngest of 5 kids and 3 of them emigrated in the late 80s/early 90s to the States as my parents couldn't afford to send them to college and there were no job prospects at home. They were all only in their late teens (but seemed so much older to me then) and I was from the ages of 9-12. It was so tough to see them go and I remember at that time not really getting it. I couldn't understand why they'd leave when they'd everything in Ireland (or so I thought) and I think part of me resented them for it. I was very close to them all and it took a lot of getting used to. From having a busy house full of people to 3 of us (my mam had died around that time too).

My brother has carved a great life for himself out there and is happily married with a little kid but we haven't lived in the same country for about 23 years. When I meet him now, it's like talking to a stranger. We're not really in contact and I don't really know who he is or what kind of person he is and visa versa. That's a killer tbh. I feel I miss him the most when he stands in front of me.

My sister's job brought her to Japan where she met her husband. She was always a home bird and she came home about 10 years ago, which I'm so grateful for. Her husband is American but he's very settled now in Ireland and there's no chance they'll ever go back there (I hope).

The other sister, the oldest, moved home the year before I left the country in 2004, so we got to spend one year in Ireland together (the only one in 23 years). She had two kids there but the economy changed and they had to move back to the States. Last year we did the Camino De Santiago together and it was like getting to know my sister again as adults. Twas a mad one but great.

I've been away from Ireland now myself about 8 years and although I play with the idea of going home, I know that realistically won't be the case for a long time and I'm okay with that. I'm happy.

I suppose the saddest part for me is the distance between myself and my two siblings in the states, one of which I barely know and not seeing my nieces and nephews growing up but I'm so grateful I've two siblings at home in Ireland still. I'm also sad for my dad; his own dad emigrated and died in NY in the 50s as well as 3 of his own siblings (and cousins, aunties etc.). I hate to say goodbye to him at Dublin airport as I know it kills him and he misses us terribly. Dublin airport has been almost like a second home to my family with the amount of comings and goings over the years.

Saying that, emigration is so much part of my family that it's probably not as traumatic for us as other families. Before I left it was almost expected that I would. We've all built lives for ourselves elsewhere and my dad knows we're all happy where we are and I know this gives him comfort. I don't see our emigration as a tragedy. We have live we never could have at home. I can't see us all living in the same country again but I'd prefer not to think about that. Such is life in Ireland right now.

This is what makes me so angry about this recession- the families being ripped apart.

THe celtic tiger was their once chance for familial continuity in a long history of poverty and emigration, and they blew it.

Both of my parents were emigrants. Out of my mother's seven siblings, one remains. The rest have gone to the US, the UK, and the continent.

We all grew up without contact with our grandparents, aunts and uncles, and cousins, the ties to blood relations were tenuous. This one brief flash of light in economic sustanance was a new chance for Irish generations to have some real contact with their families, aunts, uncles, grandparents etc, instead of dramatic reunions and separations at the airport alongside the occasional letter and brief phone call to people who are for the most part strangers.

I know people say with SKYPE and the internet, this all changes somewhat, and with cheaper flights, but does it really change all that much? We all know LDRs are tough and often fail, so I wonder if the SKYPE is just a small tokenistic illusion that makes us feel a little better about it all.

Perhaps some people can shed some light on this, but I have asked people who went through the Irish education system if they learn about the history of emmigration in schools, what happenned to all those people once they landed, the conditions that led to emmigration etc, because it seems too important to leave out.

I feel bad for the mothers who are raising their families knowing that one day they are just going to leave. It must inhibit your investments in your own family to know of impending departures.

EazyD

Great story OP, which many here I'm sure can in some way relate to. What bugs me is the fact that so little has been done to minimise emigration yet the government can siphon off annual tax takings without question. After watching the Kaiser report, discussing AIB and it's antics, I was genuinely disgusted when it was revealed that should insolvency occur, the bank can and may dip into depositor accounts, much like the case in Cyprus. Making a life for yourself in this country has become difficult enough for the majority, I just hope come next election we can get a government in who actually have a backbone and will cease to allow this madness to go further.

Legs.Eleven

clairefontaine wrote: »

This is what makes me so angry about this recession- the families being ripped apart.

THe celtic tiger was their once chance for familial continuity in a long history of poverty and emigration, and they blew it.

Both of my parents were emigrants. Out of my mother's seven siblings, one remains. The rest have gone to the US, the UK, and the continent.

We all grew up without contact with our grandparents, aunts and uncles, and cousins, the ties to blood relations were tenuous. This one brief flash of light in economic sustanance was a new chance for Irish generations to have some real contact with their families, aunts, uncles, grandparents etc, instead of dramatic reunions and separations at the airport alongside the occasional letter and brief phone call to people who are for the most part strangers.

I know people say with SKYPE and the internet, this all changes somewhat, and with cheaper flights, but does it really change all that much? We all know LDRs are tough and often fail, so I wonder if the SKYPE is just a small tokenistic illusion that makes us feel a little better about it all.

Perhaps some people can shed some light on this, but I have asked people who went through the Irish education system if they learn about the history of emmigration in schools, what happenned to all those people once they landed, the conditions that led to emmigration etc, because it seems too important to leave out.

I feel bad for the mothers who are raising their families knowing that one day they are just going to leave. It must inhibit your investments in your own family to know of impending departures.

I do agree with everything you're saying but this is an issue I have to just suck up. It's not going to change. If I think about it, I get upset and angry and that doesn't do anyone any good. I feel sorry for those who didn't want to go like my siblings originally who were scared out of their wits getting on the plane to the States (all only 18 or 19 and without Visas or jobs). I never thought things would work out this way when I was a kid. My brother, the one I've lost touch with, was my favourite and we used to hang out so much together. It's like a dream. I can't believe things have worked out the way they have through no fault of our own. But we are happy and he has his own family now. It's a mad one. It's something I always presumed as the norm but when you think about it, it's not.

I live in Spain where families are so close and emigration is still relatively low considering the situation here and they seem so happy. I used to scoff at how dependent they were on each other but I think that partly came from jealousy. It hit home that having bits of family all over the globe with little or no contact between them isn't how it was supposed to be.

clairefontaine

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I do agree with everything you're saying but this is an issue I have to just suck up. It's not going to change. If I think about it, I get upset and angry and that doesn't do anyone any good. I feel sorry for those who didn't want to go like my siblings originally who were scared out of their wits getting on the plane to the States (all only 18 or 19 and without Visas or jobs). I never thought things would work out this way when I was a kid. My brother, the one I've lost touch with, was my favourite and we used to hang out so much together. It's like a dream. I can't believe things have worked out the way they have through no fault of our own. But we are happy and he has his own family now. It's a mad one. It's something I always presumed as the norm but when you think about it, it's not.

I live in Spain where families are so close and emigration is still relatively low considering the situation here and they seem so happy. I used to scoff at how dependent they were on each other but I think that partly came from jealousy. It hit home that having bits of family all over the globe with little or no contact between them isn't how it was supposed to be.

You know Irish emigration seems to stand out in one way. You have several member of the same family emigrating to different places. In other cultures, like they all pick a spot and emigrate together.

And no it's not normal. It's disconcerting for me how people assume this recession is going to end, how it's a brief period of time and it will eventually be over, but from my perspective, the country was always in permanent recession and it was the boom years that were the anomoly. Now we have returned to normal. Well, normal for Ireland.

Where are the Spanish going to go? It's not like they have the natural english language skills that the Irish do? Or as many links to the Anglophone world either and Spanish isn't in demand as a second language either.

dxhound2005

Stinicker wrote: »

My aunt, her husband and two teenage children are returning to New York next month having returned to Ireland in 1999 to raise their kids here and enjoy the new so-called prosperous Ireland.

They will most likely never return to Ireland (other than a summer Holiday) having being burned here not once but twice, they left in the early 1980's and she spent 18 years in America before getting married and having two kids and then they returned here for a better future. Both of them have been unemployed with close to two years and they are walking away, the bank will probably foreclose on their house and they said it is not worth repaying the mortgage as there is nothing here for them or their children, they are not poor but like they said why should they live off the dole and erode their savings to repay the banks when the fraudsters who caused the mess gets away scott free.

Together they will earn more in their first month in American than several months of the dole here. They are honest hardworking people who want to work and luckily for them they are all American citizens having become citizens before coming to Ireland for fear something like this would eventually happen.

My mum is very sad as my aunt (father's sister) is one of my mothers dearest friends and she will miss her alot.

Ireland is in a very sad place right now and I'd love to leave myself but personal commitments are holding me here for the time being.

Put figures on that. How much will their combined salary be for the month and how many months of dole here will that equate to? They must have some good connections to be able to arrive in the US and both get immediate employment, even as honest hard workers and as American citizens.

The US has 7.6% of it's labour force unemployed and actively seeking work. Have they have some specialised skills not likely to be possessed by any the unemployed locals? What line of work will they be going into?

Anynama141

Stinicker wrote: »

They will most likely never return to Ireland (other than a summer Holiday) having being burned here not once but twice, they left in the early 1980's and she spent 18 years in America before getting married and having two kids and then they returned here for a better future. Both of them have been unemployed with close to two years and they are walking away, the bank will probably foreclose on their house and they said it is not worth repaying the mortgage as there is nothing here for them or their children, they are not poor but like they said why should they live off the dole and erode their savings to repay the banks when the fraudsters who caused the mess gets away scott free.

So let me get this straight: they are not repaying their mortgage even though they still have savings in the bank. Then they are going to boot off to America with their savings and leave the Irish taxpayer to pick up the tab for their house.

Perhaps they would rather be working and sticking around, but I can't work up too much sympathy for them when the debts they are leaving will be paid out of money that should be spent on schools and hospitals and public services while they live it up in New York.

clairefontaine

Anynama141 wrote: »

So let me get this straight: they are not repaying their mortgage even though they still have savings in the bank. Then they are going to boot off to America with their savings and leave the Irish taxpayer to pick up the tab for their house.

Perhaps they would rather be working and sticking around, but I can't work up too much sympathy for them when the debts they are leaving will be paid out of money that should be spent on schools and hospitals and public services while they live it up in New York.

The injustice is not that they re leaving.

The injustice is that the government is stealing people's money via the revenue service to pay the bank.

Legs.Eleven

And no it's not normal. It's disconcerting for me how people assume this recession is going to end, how it's a brief period of time and it will eventually be over, but from my perspective, the country was always in permanent recession and it was the boom years that were the anomoly. Now we have returned to normal. Well, normal for Ireland.

Yes, I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that we'll never all come home. Those two in the States definitely won't anyway.

Where are the Spanish going to go? It's not like they have the natural english language skills that the Irish do? Or as many links to the Anglophone world either and Spanish isn't in demand as a second language either.

Mainly Germany, the UK (for those with English), Argentina and Chile. Mostly to Germany, apparently as they've a relatively healthy economy. The lingo is definitely a handicap for them but they're spending huge amounts of money on English classes hence why I'm here and am never short of work (although I didn't know that before moving here). It's one industry that's booming.


Even with good English though as many of my students have, they see their future here. They'd rather rely on family support than leave but many don't have that choice and have to leave as the dole is 2 years max here then you're completely on your own.

Anynama141

clairefontaine wrote: »

There are a lot of people doing this, not just walking away from mortgages, but personal debts, you name it.

Perhaps if Ireland smartenned up with its insolvency laws, and the people weren't so supine about what the government does, you might have a different set of circumstances. I don't blame anyone for walking away from this crap.

There are lots of people who never bought and are still getting whacked out of their paychecks to cover the fraud of the banks and there has been ZERO consequences for the bankers.

In fact I hope the whole country emigrates. Leave these blood suckers with nothing.

Claire, you need to understand how this stuff works. Take a look at the banks:

1. Owned by the shareholders (usually pensions funds, investment funds, and ordinary small shareholders)
2. Run by senior management
3. Staffed by normal folk

During the bubble, the senior management lost the run of themselves and took excessive risks. They are supposed to be working for the shareholders. They did a lousy job, but you can't be jailed for being bad at your job. You can, however, be fired.

So let's look at the consequences of the bank collapse for the different categories:

1. Shareholders lost nearly all of their money
2. Senior management lost their jobs (albeit with ludicrous golden handshakes in some cases)
3. Large numbers of normal staff have been/will be let go.

Here's the current situation in the banks:

1. Owned by the taxpayer (except for BOI, which we own a minority of)
2. Run by new senior management
3. With a slimmed down normal staff, and more to go.

So - what consequences would you like to see for 'the bankers'? Which 'bankers' are you talking about? Who do you think gets hurt now every time someone defaults on a loan?

Anynama141

clairefontaine wrote: »

The injustice is not that they re leaving.

The injustice is that the government is stealing people's money via the revenue service to pay the bank.

But you don't understand: they owe the banks, and we OWN the banks. They owe US, and if they don't pay, WE PAY MORE.

crockholm

I remember having resentment towards some of my relatives at one stage, we were just after burying an elderly aul coot, when I got the call that I was given a job on the continent,and to be ready in 3 days time,when I told them of this I recieved congratulations all round, before they collectively began to start poormouthing (they are primary school teachers) about how sh!t their situations were, "they give with one hand and take with the other", and I'm in the room listening to this crap when I have to leave family and friends behind and work a 62 hour week!!!

I now have my own family abroad,and I am coming home for a 3 week holiday soon, but, I still yearn to return,with family in tow back to Ireland,hopefully thing will be better in 2-3 years.

clairefontaine

Anynama141 wrote: »

But you don't understand: they owe the banks, and we OWN the banks. They owe US, and if they don't pay, WE PAY MORE.

You dont own the banks. You have no say in how the banks are run. You will get no return for the money they are taking out of YOUR paycheck.

And when Anglo crashed, what did you get? Nada. What would you get if they succeeded and made hug profits? Also nada.

Anynama141

clairefontaine wrote: »

You dont own the banks. You have no say in how the banks are run. You will get no return for the money they are taking out of YOUR paycheck.

Wrong on all points aside from the say in how it is run. The Irish government, our representatives, have a say in how they are run however.

clairefontaine wrote: »

And when Anglo crashed, what did you get? Nada. What would you get if they succeeded and made hug profits? Also nada.

We didn't own Anglo when it went bust, did we?

Would you like to address the long post I wrote to you? It's annoying when you invest time to try to explain something and someone ignores the post because it challenges their preconceived view.

Legs.Eleven

Jaysus there's been a million threads on this already. Can we not just stick to the topic? Maybe some people would like to share their stories and vent a bit.

6541

This makes me sad, we need to stand up together, organise and get this great country back on track, We need to create a strong Irish Network across the world, lets have an Irish mafia in every city in the world and look out for our brothers and sisters and stop this fighting among ourselves!!!

Anynama141

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Jaysus there's been a million threads on this already. Can we not just stick to the topic? Maybe some people would like to share their stories and vent a bit.

Sorry Legs. You are right, there are loads of threads on it but people don't seem to be absorbing any of the information. I must have tried to explain this stuff 50 times already and you keep hearing the same bullsh!t about banks and the evil government and nasty austerity.

Economics should be a compulsory subject in school.

Paramite Pie

clairefontaine wrote: »

The injustice is not that they re leaving.

The injustice is that the government is stealing people's money via the revenue service to pay the bank.

The injustice is that they borrowed money from the bank and are now refusing to pay it back since they lost their jobs. But they're not bankrupt.

If I borrowed 400,000 quid to by a Ferrari, I wouldn't refuse to pay back the loan once the car devalues....

dxhound2005

6541 wrote: »

This makes me sad, we need to stand up together, organise and get this great country back on track, We need to create a strong Irish Network across the world, lets have an Irish mafia in every city in the world and look out for our brothers and sisters and stop this fighting among ourselves!!!

A good start would be to bring the campaign against property tax to foreign countries. Why should Irish people have to pay a family home tax anywhere?

Anynama141

dxhound2005 wrote: »

A good start would be to bring the campaign against property tax to foreign countries. Why should Irish people have to pay a family home tax anywhere?

Good point. Irish people everywhere should be exempt from property tax, yet in almost every civilised country they will be expected to pay it when they emigrate. How unfair is that?

CaraMay

clairefontaine wrote: »

The injustice is that the government is stealing people's money via the revenue service to pay the bank.

They are stealing from the Irish people by choosing not to repay the loan they borrowed for their house. Total toe rags.