Why these jobs??

Gongoozler

syklops wrote: »

Your attitude f&^king stinks. I don't find it at all hard to believe you can't find work.

Don't bother reacting, I'm out of this thread.

My attitude stinks because I answer back to you, and don't back down when you think I should? Right.

Well, my attitude doesn't stink. I don't take kindly to being insulted, as you have done, so I've stood up for myself.

I merely pointed out you are not in the position to tell me why employers have not taken me on - which is true. Also I pointed out that Very few other jobs require you to work in your spare time, unpaid, purely just to get that job - which is also true. I also said that working more does not mean that you're better - again true.

FYI, and anybody elses, I don't apply for programming jobs, because even though I worked my ass off through college to get my grade, it made me feel almost suicidal to keep hearing nothing back, to not be able to get a job that I worked so hard to get. I am currently designing, researching, writing and coding a website for an EU department, so obviously somebody thought enough of me to let me do that.

jester77 wrote: »

It's the same for anyone working in IT. Any IT contract I've ever had was salary based which required a minimum of 35-40 hours. You will have many weeks where you will just work the minimum but you will also have many weeks where you will work a lot more. If you have a large system upgrade, software release, system not working, etc then you don't just stand up and walk out once your minimum hours are up. If this is not how you want to work then you really should re-evaluate if IT is the industry where you want to work. IT people are well paid for what they do and there are lots of opportunities to move up with your career.

That's not what I'm talking about, I thought that was clear.
I'm talking about working your ass off in your spare time on projects, just so you can get an entry level programming job. That's what I don't think is acceptable. Of course when you're in a job, especially programming, you'll need to be flexible.

SeventySix

My experience is that you dont have to be coding day and night, if you are good. If you are mediocre then it would help.

Does your cv have anything on it bar your degree?
Did you do any work experience as part of your degree?
Did you do a final year project and was it in something that can be make to look useful?
Did you not even make a website or an app just for fun?
Do you talk a good game?
If most of the answers to the questions above is 'No' then you will struggle to find work. Its not about doing loads of code at home. Its also about knowing your industry and showing a bit of interest.

Gongoozler

SeventySix wrote: »

My experience is that you dont have to be coding day and night, if you are good. If you are mediocre then it would help.

Does your cv have anything on it bar your degree?
Did you do any work experience as part of your degree?
Did you do a final year project and was it in something that can be make to look useful?
Did you not even make a website or an app just for fun?
Do you talk a good game?
If most of the answers to the questions above is 'No' then you will struggle to find work. Its not about doing loads of code at home. Its also about knowing your industry and showing a bit of interest.

As it happens, my answers to all except the last one would be yes. But this thread isn't about me and what I am/am not applying for.

Tiddlypeeps

Gongoozler wrote: »

Or ....just maybe businesses are looking for perfect candidates that already know everything.

I'm not making excuses, and I'm not lazy. I've no reason to make excuses, I don't have to prove to anybody I'm applying for these jobs, and not getting them, so I have no reason to make any excuses. And, well no I'm not lazy.

If a business can hire somebody that knows everything then they are obviously going to hire that person. But sadly that is unrealistic and people that know everything don't exist. The software companies here are hiring, and they are filling the positions, often with people from outside of the country, but they are still being filled so your assumption that they are waiting for the perfect person that knows everything is very flawed.

You are making excuses, that is exactly what you are doing. The only person stopping you from getting a job is you. You may not be lazy but you are doing a very good job of making it seem like you are.

Your attitude stinks btw, I am not surprised at all that you can't find a job. Regardless of your technical expertise I wouldn't hire you with that attitude.

EDIT: Snap Skylops beat me to it >_<

Gongoozler wrote: »

They want people who code 18 hours a day, who want to stay till 8pm every night at work just to get something finished, who code in their spare time so they know they'll do crazy hours.

That's not what I'm after, no matter what job I take on. And that's why I couldn't get a programming job.

I only know if 1 Irish company that do this. They are (or maybe were, not sure if they are still going) a start up of a few people and anyone they hired was worked like a dog, the staff never stuck around long. They couldn't keep any staff. Companies that treat their staff that way don't keep them for very long, so most don't do it. I think it might still be a trend for some games companies in the UK, but it's very quickly dying out.

All a company wants is a person that can do that job well.

If you aren't getting job offers then either you don't know how to do the job well or your crappy attitude is coming across in the interviews.

Gongoozler wrote: »

Except I'm just trying to do a job I like, for reasonable money so I can live... not be one of the richest people in the country.

People on call, junior doctors, people working weekends... these people get paid for that. Argument is invalid.

I would've seen your post sooner if it had quoted me properly.

Programmers get paid very well, entry level salaries are much higher than average. They get paid to keep on top of ever changing technology.

Shenshen

Gongoozler wrote: »

I am reasonably motivated when I've a project to work on.
As I pointed out several times, and ye all seem to be ignoring, just about no other job requires you to work in your spare time, in order to get a job. So why should this be different?
I know I wouldn't be the greatest coder, but I've a lot of skills and talents that are useful to the area, so I am still valuable as a programmer. But that's not what they're interested in. They want people who code 18 hours a day, who want to stay till 8pm every night at work just to get something finished, who code in their spare time so they know they'll do crazy hours.

That's not what I'm after, no matter what job I take on. And that's why I couldn't get a programming job.

In all fairness, I'm a simple little admin person, and while my job description certainly doesn't say that I need to work in my spare time, the reason for me having the position I do now and getting the money I get is because I do anyway.
I would usually work on process improvements and the like during my free time, either evenings or weekends.

And there is absolutely nothing special about this at all. If you want to get a decent job, you need to be able to show your employer that you're willing and happy to get the job done, working hours or non working hours. It's in no way just IT.

And the fact of the matter is, there are plenty of people out there with exactly that attitude, and they will always get the job before you do.

westies4ever

discus wrote: »

Love it, he sounds like my dad. A proper grafter, like. Good to hear he's doing well.

thank you, im very proud of him. he's really loving his job and already very popular. he always has a smile on his face and no query or request is a problem. his boss caught him cleaning the toilets the other day and couldnt believe it - hubbie just shrugged, they needed doing and the cleaners wouldnt be in for a few hours. i honestly believe its that sort of attitude to have if you want to get on.