Why these jobs??

youcancallmeal

Getting into IT (Software Engineering in particular) can be difficult if you are just doing it for the money, most decent employers will pick up on someone who doesn't have a genuine interest in IT and probably not hire them.

syklops

sfwcork wrote: »

Im in IT sales and even though the loons in charge say its theveuropen(?) hub of IT its all bullsh!t

No its not bullsh!t as you so eloquently put it. There are _alot_ of engineering companies big and small here and they cannot get local good staff. About 70% of Googles employees in Barrow street are foreigners. Even the company I work in, about 40% of the engineers are foreign because they could not get Irish staff.

syklops

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Any software grad in this country that can't find a job because of lack of experience is just lazy tbh. Working on solo projects at home or taking part in open source projects is often just as valid as a real life position. It wouldn't be too difficult to get a job without a degree if you had a reasonable amount of those kind of projects behind you.

Someone posted in Work and Jobs about how they were a software graduate and they could not find work. It was suggested they take part in some Open Source projects and their reaction was "Why should I have to take part in other projects to get work? I already have a degree". I suspect that is a common attitude among many graduates and it is why they don't get jobs.

Most companies want people with passion and drive. People who love to code, and who code in their spare time even if they are not getting paid. They don't want people who will code from 9-5 because that is their work hours.

SeventySix

syklops wrote: »

Most companies want people with passion and drive. People who love to code, and who code in their spare time even if they are not getting paid. They don't want people who will code from 9-5 because that is their work hours.

My company seems to be taking anyone and everyone. Lots of recruitment from Portugal at the moment as cant get c# developers in Cork it seems. They took on a good few graduates recently too.

I feel its a myth about the coding at home thing. I never have, and never had a problem getting a coding job.

Tiddlypeeps

syklops wrote: »

Someone posted in Work and Jobs about how they were a software graduate and they could not find work. It was suggested they take part in some Open Source projects and their reaction was "Why should I have to take part in other projects to get work? I already have a degree". I suspect that is a common attitude among many graduates and it is why they don't get jobs.

Most companies want people with passion and drive. People who love to code, and who code in their spare time even if they are not getting paid. They don't want people who will code from 9-5 because that is their work hours.

That attitude is surprisingly common.

It's sad too because if their motivation is money then they are really losing out. For the sake of a few months of doing some free work in their spare time they are missing out on getting jobs that are often quite well paid. It's an investment really.

Tiddlypeeps

SeventySix wrote: »

My company seems to be taking anyone and everyone. Lots of recruitment from Portugal at the moment as cant get c# developers in Cork it seems. They took on a good few graduates recently too.

I feel its a myth about the coding at home thing. I never have, and never had a problem getting a coding job.

I don't believe you have to want to code all the time. It's fine to only want to do it in work. The comments made about working on open source projects were aimed at grads that can't find work. The reason they can't find work is not because of a tick box on their CV, I've never heard of a software grad that couldn't get an interview. They don't know enough at the end of college so they need to learn more to get a job.

That can be down to either doing a college course that isn't very good (there are many) or just not applying themselves in college (just doing enough to pass), or both.

The best way to catch up is to code, if you can do that while working with others you can learn form then even better. That's why open source projects are recommended. It also proves you have a good work ethic at the same time which always helps.

Ray Palmer

Am I the only one who is not surprised a glorified security guard can't get a job?

I can't imagine there are many barriers for entry into the field.

syklops

SeventySix wrote: »

My company seems to be taking anyone and everyone. Lots of recruitment from Portugal at the moment as cant get c# developers in Cork it seems. They took on a good few graduates recently too.

I feel its a myth about the coding at home thing. I never have, and never had a problem getting a coding job.

I used to work for a company who used to snap up c# developers, and they had an office in Cork. I wonder is it the same one. Does it begin with an 'S'?

SeventySix

syklops wrote: »

I used to work for a company who used to snap up c# developers, and they had an office in Cork. I wonder is it the same one. Does it begin with an 'S'?

No. A 'D'. There seems to be a pretty stagnant pool of c# developers in Cork and they rotate around the same few companies. See the same faces over and over.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

burgermasters wrote: »

I know, i think sometimes your better off on the dole in this country?

I would disagree in most cases, but it can be more appealing if you are in the right category.

smash wrote: »

"the sales people hide the job type and play on the fact you need the money then have work twelve hours a day for little or nothing and you don't have time to look for the real jobs"

There's always time to look for a job if you make time. And working straight 12 hour days in sales for no money? please...

I think he/she means the door to door sales jobs are presented incorrectly.

Shenshen wrote: »

If you speak German and one other European language, my company here in Cork is desperately looking for Customer Service agents.

Blizzard? :P

There are jobs out there, there has always been jobs out there, but there's not 450,000 jobs out there. A lot of places are just looking for experience which people don't have. It's not easy to get started, but once you get into the right job it gets a LOT easier to move on and start a career.

There are some unskilled jobs you could start doing yourself while searching for the right job. 3 years ago I was cleaning chimneys, filthy awful job with the rods, but I managed to do something. I was also going door to door cleaning windows and i'm scared shítless of heights.

There's more jobs out there than what you will find on Jobs.ie and the likes.

Madam_X

burgermasters wrote: »

ok so i have been looking on line at jobs,

and suppose my question is WHY is it only door to door sales that are hiring in this country? all you see is sales reps wanted or better yet they dont say anything about door to door sales but hide what they want you to do untill they get you in there???

Where are all the jobs the government say are here??

The ones that are announced on the news might not necessarily be advertised on jobs websites. You need to go into the company's Vacancies page. I wouldn't depend on jobs websites at all.
The reason there are so many sales reps jobs advertised is because there are a lot of those jobs! High turnover.

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Any software grad in this country that can't find a job because of lack of experience is just lazy tbh. Working on solo projects at home or taking part in open source projects is often just as valid as a real life position. It wouldn't be too difficult to get a job without a degree if you had a reasonable amount of those kind of projects behind you.

Would that really be deemed as good as actual work experience though? I'm under the impression that an employer is going to want to see evidence of at least one actual job on the CV as opposed to stuff the person does at home. I don't think lack of experience is a poor excuse at all. It's a valid reason IMO.

There are of course jobs out there, but are there enough to meet the demand? For every one job, there are going to be several applicants. It's a lottery - and it could even take a while before the person who's deemed suitable for the job is actually hired.

Gongoozler

I was one of the people in Work & Jobs that said I feel I shouldn't have to work in my spare time at home to get a job already having a degree. My motivation in getting a SD job wasn't at all to do with money. I wanted to do it because I like it. I don't love it. I'm not fantastic at it. I don't work well when I have no direction, therefore working on a project or two in my spare time isn't going to happen. Does this mean I'm not a good programmer? Not necessarily.

My point was how many jobs/professions out there require you to work at home in your spare time in order to get a job? Nothing else does. I worked my ass off in college, and I did very well. I would work very hard at a job, any job that I do. So I still say that it's bollix to say there aren't enough qualified IT people here to do the jobs.

Anyway, back on topic, OP I feel your pain. I've the same bother scrolling through pages of jobs every day, trying to see past all the sales etc. What bugs me about a certain site too is that every day about 90% of yesterdays jobs will be relisted as having being entered today, so you've to scroll through the same jobs over and over.

IrishExpat

These jobs have extremely high turnover rate of employees, so it's really just recycling the same positions.

I wouldn't mind but some really go out of their way to hide the true nature of the job until you call to ask for further details.

Generally any job title with 'no experience needed', 'energetic' or 'opportunity' in the one sentence is more than likely this door-to-door or chugger shite.

This is first hand experience talking.

Tiddlypeeps

Madam_X wrote: »

Would that really be deemed as good as actual work experience though? I'm under the impression that an employer is going to want to see evidence of at least one actual job on the CV as opposed to stuff the person does at home. I don't think lack of experience is a poor excuse at all. It's a valid reason IMO.

It absolutely is deemed valid work experience. Sometimes it's more valuable on a CV than some actual positions. Say for example a person spent 6 months working on an open source project that does something interesting, like a game engine or something. They then get a job doing basic database entry stuff. If 6 months later they apply for a different job in the interview the topic discussed in more detail is going to be the game engine.

Or if a person works on and releases an app on their own in their spare time. That is as good as having worked for another company. Why wouldn't it be, you are doing the same work, just not getting paid.

Gongoozler wrote: »

I was one of the people in Work & Jobs that said I feel I shouldn't have to work in my spare time at home to get a job already having a degree. My motivation in getting a SD job wasn't at all to do with money. I wanted to do it because I like it. I don't love it. I'm not fantastic at it. I don't work well when I have no direction, therefore working on a project or two in my spare time isn't going to happen. Does this mean I'm not a good programmer? Not necessarily.

My point was how many jobs/professions out there require you to work at home in your spare time in order to get a job? Nothing else does. I worked my ass off in college, and I did very well. I would work very hard at a job, any job that I do. So I still say that it's bollix to say there aren't enough qualified IT people here to do the jobs.

You are never going to get a software job with that attitude.

If you can't get a job with just your degree then you obviously don't know enough to fill the job positions you are looking for. It's up to you to fix that, no employer is obliged to hire a person that doesn't know enough to do the job. It doesn't mean you aren't a good programmer, but it either means that you didn't learn as much as you think you did in collage or you are very unlucky.

The "I don't work well without direction" bit is just an excuse to be lazy.

steddyeddy

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Ya, makes you wonder what the 450.000 are doing with themselfs.

FFS. Ronald Reagan would be proud of the welfare recipient scapegoating. Why not use the phrase welfare queen and have done with.

Duggy747

With a lot of jobs in IT, a degree will more than likely only get you an interview and does not mean you automatically should be entitled to a job. I say that because a lot of people have that mentality when studying IT, that when they leave college somebody will snap them right up.

You have to show you have the knowledge / experience / drive to do the job or else you'll sink against the 1st guy also going for it who shows these traits.

On top of that, especially if you're working with systems & networks, then you need to get yourself Comptia / Microsoft / CCNA certs because those guys are very valuable and are recognised around the world.

The FÀS internship / volunteer work is a haven for experience. I was out of work so I applied for a volunteer job and was contracted for 9 months. The company put an advert in the paper and I was only 1 of 4 people who applied for it.

Learnt more in those 9 months, covering 60 sites, than I did in my previous IT jobs which kept me within my safe zone.

BuzzFish

BTW its not just software engineering that see's the shortage right now, IT support / admin are booming too. Last company I was working for was recruiting actively in Portugal, Spain and Germany to find people as there are no Irish for these jobs. I decided I wanted to move on, updated my details on linkedin and my phone nearly exploded.
There is a valid point that the government has been saying for the last 5 years that we need more people qualified in the sciences, in IT and and BIO-Tech. The business in these industries were also saying this. Those who listened are now qualified / re-trained are being rewarded with working in booming industries.
You can't just sit hand out the same ol' CV. People need to identify what skills are in demand and re-train..... or the only realistic option is to emigrate and find a country where your skill is in demand.
It can't be expected that the government can create jobs in every area to suit every skill-set.

jester77

Gongoozler wrote: »

I was one of the people in Work & Jobs that said I feel I shouldn't have to work in my spare time at home to get a job already having a degree. My motivation in getting a SD job wasn't at all to do with money. I wanted to do it because I like it. I don't love it. I'm not fantastic at it. I don't work well when I have no direction, therefore working on a project or two in my spare time isn't going to happen. Does this mean I'm not a good programmer? Not necessarily.

My point was how many jobs/professions out there require you to work at home in your spare time in order to get a job? Nothing else does. I worked my ass off in college, and I did very well. I would work very hard at a job, any job that I do. So I still say that it's bollix to say there aren't enough qualified IT people here to do the jobs.

Anyway, back on topic, OP I feel your pain. I've the same bother scrolling through pages of jobs every day, trying to see past all the sales etc. What bugs me about a certain site too is that every day about 90% of yesterdays jobs will be relisted as having being entered today, so you've to scroll through the same jobs over and over.

You are looking at it all wrong. Employers want motivated employees. Your post makes you sound lazy, I'm not saying you are though. In 5 years nearly everything you have learned will no longer be relevant. If you don't put in the effort in your spare time to keep up with evolving technologies and languages then you will get left behind and be totally unemployable.

westies4ever

husband is in his mid forties. left school at 16 with no qualifications and became a carpenter. worked in construction for years and worked his way up to site manager. earned over €70k but worked mental hours and was away a lot.

he was made redundant in 2009. he used some of the money (about €3k i think) to do a diploma in facilities management. in the meantime he took on any contract site managmeent jobs he could get his hands on. money was dreadful, had to pay for digs etc but he did it.

it took a couple of years and he applied for god knows how many jobs but last year he got a full time permanent position as a facilities manager for an investment bank in dublin. he works 9-5 in a lovely office. money isnt brilliant but we pay the bills and he'll get there. hes never been happier.

in his first week in his new job, 3 construction companies phoned him asking him to do contracts for them.

i have no time for people saying there are no jobs out there. work hard, take whats going, retrain, be polite and presentable, go the extra mile.

nothing is going to land in your lap. you have to go out and get it.

syklops

MadamX wrote:

Would that really be deemed as good as actual work experience though? I'm under the impression that an employer is going to want to see evidence of at least one actual job on the CV as opposed to stuff the person does at home. I don't think lack of experience is a poor excuse at all. It's a valid reason IMO.

With an Open Source project, you are contributing to a real life and in many cases professional application, and everything is transparent. A potential employer can see the code you have contributed, the bug fixes you have done, etc. Even only a few contributions to Open Source projects can create an online CV much richer than a three line description of the first job you did out of college. Also, unlike casual employment where references can be fudged, if you write crap code, people will point that out. It will be in a comments box of a git repository somewhere.

I know numerous people who have been employed based on their contributions to Open Source projects. Some straight out of college, one or two straight out of high school.

Gongoozler wrote:

My point was how many jobs/professions out there require you to work at home in your spare time in order to get a job? Nothing else does.

I'm not sure I agree with that. For starters, if you look at something like the Sunday Times Rich List, you won't find many people who got there by just working 40 hours a week.

Them aside, how much spare time do you think junior doctors get? Anyone who works on-call, has weekends where the spent the weekend working. That doesn't just cover IT work. Technology is changing all the time in all industries and so to stay on top of things lots of people have to learn in their own time to stay relevant.

Gongoozler

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

You are never going to get a software job with that attitude.

If you can't get a job with just your degree then you obviously don't know enough to fill the job positions you are looking for. It's up to you to fix that, no employer is obliged to hire a person that doesn't know enough to do the job. It doesn't mean you aren't a good programmer, but it either means that you didn't learn as much as you think you did in collage or you are very unlucky.

The "I don't work well without direction" bit is just an excuse to be lazy.

Or ....just maybe businesses are looking for perfect candidates that already know everything.

I'm not making excuses, and I'm not lazy. I've no reason to make excuses, I don't have to prove to anybody I'm applying for these jobs, and not getting them, so I have no reason to make any excuses. And, well no I'm not lazy.

jester77 wrote: »

You are looking at it all wrong. Employers want motivated employees. Your post makes you sound lazy, I'm not saying you are though. In 5 years nearly everything you have learned will no longer be relevant. If you don't put in the effort in your spare time to keep up with evolving technologies and languages then you will get left behind and be totally unemployable.

I am reasonably motivated when I've a project to work on.
As I pointed out several times, and ye all seem to be ignoring, just about no other job requires you to work in your spare time, in order to get a job. So why should this be different?
I know I wouldn't be the greatest coder, but I've a lot of skills and talents that are useful to the area, so I am still valuable as a programmer. But that's not what they're interested in. They want people who code 18 hours a day, who want to stay till 8pm every night at work just to get something finished, who code in their spare time so they know they'll do crazy hours.

That's not what I'm after, no matter what job I take on. And that's why I couldn't get a programming job.

discus

westies4ever wrote: »

husband is in his mid forties. left school at 16 with no qualifications and became a carpenter. worked in construction for years and worked his way up to site manager. earned over €70k but worked mental hours and was away a lot.

he was made redundant in 2009. he used some of the money (about €3k i think) to do a diploma in facilities management. in the meantime he took on any contract site managmeent jobs he could get his hands on. money was dreadful, had to pay for digs etc but he did it.

it took a couple of years and he applied for god knows how many jobs but last year he got a full time permanent position as a facilities manager for an investment bank in dublin. he works 9-5 in a lovely office. money isnt brilliant but we pay the bills and he'll get there. hes never been happier.

in his first week in his new job, 3 construction companies phoned him asking him to do contracts for them.

i have no time for people saying there are no jobs out there. work hard, take whats going, retrain, be polite and presentable, go the extra mile.

nothing is going to land in your lap. you have to go out and get it.

Love it, he sounds like my dad. A proper grafter, like. Good to hear he's doing well.

syklops

Gongoozler wrote:

As I pointed out several times, and ye all seem to be ignoring, just about no other job requires you to work in your spare time, in order to get a job. So why should this be different?

Read my post.

Gongoozler

syklops wrote: »

I'm not sure I agree with that. For starters, if you look at something like the Sunday Times Rich List, you won't find many people who got there by just working 40 hours a week.

Them aside, how much spare time do you think junior doctors get? Anyone who works on-call, has weekends where the spent the weekend working. That doesn't just cover IT work. Technology is changing all the time in all industries and so to stay on top of things lots of people have to learn in their own time to stay relevant.

Except I'm just trying to do a job I like, for reasonable money so I can live... not be one of the richest people in the country.

People on call, junior doctors, people working weekends... these people get paid for that. Argument is invalid.

I would've seen your post sooner if it had quoted me properly.

tiger55

Lars1916 wrote: »

Loads of telesales jobs as well, afaik

I thought they were all being outsourced to India now?

copeyhagen

too many over educated, under experienced individuals here

syklops

Gongoozler wrote: »

Except I'm just trying to do a job I like, for reasonable money so I can live... not be one of the richest people in the country.

Which is why your not getting any work. There are people ahead of you who are willing to work a little harder, and be a little better for the same money.

Gongoozler wrote: »

People on call, junior doctors, people working weekends... these people get paid for that. Argument is invalid.

According to this article in the Irish Times Junior Doctors don't get paid or if they do it is a very small amount. This is after 8 years minimum of college. Regularly expected to do 36 hour shifts.

Gongoozler wrote: »

I would've seen your post sooner if it had quoted me properly.

Fixed now. Sorry for inconveniencing you.

Gongoozler

syklops wrote: »

Which is why your not getting any work. There are people ahead of you who are willing to work a little harder, and be a little better for the same money.

I didn't realise you were every employer in IT in Ireland. Working more != better.

syklops wrote: »

According to this article in the Irish Times Junior Doctors don't get paid or if they do it is a very small amount. This is after 8 years minimum of college. Regularly expected to do 36 hour shifts.

Just as well I didn't study to be a doctor then.

syklops wrote: »

Fixed now. Sorry for inconveniencing you.

Didn't mention an inconvenience, you're the one that demanded I read your post, I was simply pointing out how it could easily have been missed.

syklops

Gongoozler wrote: »

I didn't realise you were every employer in IT in Ireland. Working more != better.




Just as well I didn't study to be a doctor then.


Didn't mention an inconvenience, you're the one that demanded I read your post, I was simply pointing out how it could easily have been missed.

Your attitude f&^king stinks. I don't find it at all hard to believe you can't find work.

Don't bother reacting, I'm out of this thread.

jester77

Gongoozler wrote: »

Except I'm just trying to do a job I like, for reasonable money so I can live... not be one of the richest people in the country.

People on call, junior doctors, people working weekends... these people get paid for that. Argument is invalid.

I would've seen your post sooner if it had quoted me properly.

It's the same for anyone working in IT. Any IT contract I've ever had was salary based which required a minimum of 35-40 hours. You will have many weeks where you will just work the minimum but you will also have many weeks where you will work a lot more. If you have a large system upgrade, software release, system not working, etc then you don't just stand up and walk out once your minimum hours are up. If this is not how you want to work then you really should re-evaluate if IT is the industry where you want to work. IT people are well paid for what they do and there are lots of opportunities to move up with your career.