Mind Our Men !

Ruudi_Mentari

Tearwave wrote: »

He's saying there are some genuinely absolutely out of their mind, on another planet altogether, mental patients in psychiatric institutions... I think

not necaserrily... if even just wards for the perceivedly depressed, but that and suicide really shouldn't be misconstrued or spoken as alike in my view -

and neither should be admitted to a looney bin, that just compounds that shìt.. well suicidals maybe.

token101

Duzzer wrote: »

Tell you the truth "mind our men" sounds a bit patronising or something. Unpopular,thing to say but i know there are others out there that might agree

I think it's a great idea to encourage people to seek professional help for mental illness. I think it's a very, very bad idea to encourage people to talk to family and friends about those problems. It could make it exponentially worse.

Duzzer

token101 wrote: »

I think it's a great idea to encourage people to seek professional help for mental illness. I think it's a very, very bad idea to encourage people to talk to family and friends about those problems. It could make it exponentially worse.

Mind our men sounds like something someone with too much time on twitter or Facebook would,make up. Pure middle class nonsense

Ruudi_Mentari

Yeah I don't need minding, I'm a stone cold killer on the prowl!

Duzzer

Ruudi_Mentari wrote: »

Yeah I don't need minding, I'm a stone cold killer on the prowl!

Zoiks!

Aoifums

While I like the idea and I really hope that it helps people, I'm not sure if there's help available. Obviously some friends will be better than others at listening but I've had some really awful experiences with the psychiatric services here. They were able to do fvck all and there was a 7 month waiting list for therapy. I knows that's only my area but I hate the thought that someone would actually turn to their friends and then realise there's not much help for them beyond that.
I wasn't trying to be that much of a downer. Hard to stay upbeat given the topic.

UCDVet

I was sick back in Jan. sore throat and that darn thing in the back of my throat was so big it was touching my tongue. I flipped out and went to a doctor. Paid 60 euro...got an antibiotic.

Took that, got better-ish. But my throat was still swollen, making it hard to sleep at night. I go back in again in Feb after it wasn't getting any better....

New doc at the same place, looks at it and goes, 'ahhh yeah - well, you were sick. That's normal. Give it a week or two and it'll be fine'. As if I were crazy to think I shouldn't have my uvula touching my tongue 24/7. He writes me the same prescription as before, and tells me to wait two weeks, then take the prescription again.

I do. Nothing improves.

I go back again, in March. 3rd time. Paid 180 euro so far. Same doc as last time, looks at me and says, 'Oh - you have a deviated septum from sports' (wtf? I don't play sports and I didn't have it before?). He tells me to spray water up my nose for a week and if it isn't better he'll send me to a specialist.

I'm still waiting on the referral.

And this is for a problem anyone can visibly see. I can't imagine what it would be like trying to get medical treatment for something the doc couldn't see. At this point, I wish I'd never went. I'd still be sick, but I'd have 180 euro more.

suicide_circus

All for suicide prevention measures but not sure if the gender focus is helpful?

In many cases the pressure to be a "man" and to fulfil "man roles" is a contributing element.

Sure **** it, if it saves one life its all worth it.

HondaSami

suicide_circus wrote: »

All for suicide prevention measures but not sure if the gender focus is helpful?

''Even though awareness of suicide has increased, the number of people who take their own lives in Ireland continues to grow. Most of them are men. Despite this, our figures show that 53% of people who use our services are women and 47% are men. Deeper analysis shows that it is mainly women who make the appointments for men''.

''Men’s typical characteristics are of strength, logical thinking and protectiveness. They don’t usually seek help for themselves and if they do it’s at the point of crisis. The reasons for their reluctance are because they believe that they can fix the situation or that it will pass''


It's not about gender, it's a fact men are not as good at seeking help as women are.

suicide_circus

HondaSami wrote: »

''Even though awareness of suicide has increased, the number of people who take their own lives in Ireland continues to grow. Most of them are men. Despite this, our figures show that 53% of people who use our services are women and 47% are men. Deeper analysis shows that it is mainly women who make the appointments for men''.

''Men’s typical characteristics are of strength, logical thinking and protectiveness. They don’t usually seek help for themselves and if they do it’s at the point of crisis. The reasons for their reluctance are because they believe that they can fix the situation or that it will pass''


It's not about gender, it's a fact men are not as good at seeking help as women are.

You give quotes about a gender and its characteristics and then say its not about gender?

HondaSami

suicide_circus wrote: »

You give quotes about a gender and its characteristics and then say its not about gender?

suicide_circus wrote: »

All for suicide prevention measures but not sure if the gender focus is helpful?

Sorry if i misunderstood you, what did you mean by this?

suicide_circus

I said suicide prevention is good but the gender focus is slightly questionable.

HondaSami

suicide_circus wrote: »

I said suicide prevention is good but the gender focus is slightly questionable.

Why is it questionable ?

Temptamperu

suicide_circus wrote: »

I said suicide prevention is good but the gender focus is slightly questionable.

The Gender focus is because of the amount of young men who have depression with suicidal tendancies.

The Road Runner

For most people all you can offer is an ear and hope that they find a way out. Sometimes people have just had enough of life. I wish people considering suicide would just talk to at least one person before following through. I think this is a great song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjVQ36NhbMk

starlings

I almost started a thread on Mind Our Men! after hearing a representative from Pieta House speak about it on the radio. I didn't because my thoughts were a bit tangled and tbh I knew they'd be unpopular. Reading this thread is good for sorting that out.

I don't like the gender focus on recruiting women as helpers. I understand the figures of male suicide are far greater than female, but this is just telling women that on top of the care we already give to family and friends, on top of the nagging sh1t society will throw at you about anything from child-rearing fads to cellulite, you are now responsible for men's mental health. What does this campaign propose to do to help a woman who signed up and now blames herself because her care was not enough to stop her loved one from killing himself?

But that's not even my unpopular opinion. All of the suicides I have known have been different. One was a young man, so badly injured in a car crash that his quality of life was ruined. It was sad, terribly sad, but I thought - fair enough, xxxx, rest in peace. Another was a family member whose illness manifested itself in cruelty to everyone around him. I was actually relieved.

It's not just the people committing suicide who are unique; the people around them each have individual relationships with them and with each other, of varying degrees of trust and love, so I don't see how it will help to burden these people with the task of preventing a suicide. Especially not when the person at risk of suicide will always have the final say, and the people around them will always look to themselves for reasons that do not apply to the troubled, clouded or sick mind.

HondaSami

starlings wrote: »

I don't like the gender focus on recruiting women as helpers. I understand the figures of male suicide are far greater than female, but this is just telling women that on top of the care we already give to family and friends, on top of the nagging sh1t society will throw at you about anything from child-rearing fads to cellulite, you are now responsible for men's mental health. What does this campaign propose to do to help a woman who signed up and now blames herself because her care was not enough to stop her loved one from killing himself?

Everyone will see it differently, for me it's a way of saying men need tlc as well. I don't see it as telling women they are responsible for the men in their lives but a reminder we are all vulnerable and to look out for each other. Men are seen as tough and it can be difficult for them to ask for help.

It's human nature to feel responsible and to blame ourselves if someone you love takes their own life, there is help for families.
No one should blame themselves because sometimes even with all the help in the world some people make a choice and it is their choice at the end of the day.

starlings

HondaSami wrote: »

Everyone will see it differently, for me it's a way of saying men need tlc as well. I don't see it as telling women they are responsible for the men in their lives but a reminder we are all vulnerable and to look out for each other. Men are seen as tough and it can be difficult for them to ask for help.

It's human nature to feel responsible and to blame ourselves if someone you love takes their own life, there is help for families.
No one should blame themselves because sometimes even with all the help in the world some people make a choice and it is their choice at the end of the day.

In the RTÉ radio interview, the Pieta House representative referred to women's capacity for nurture. It sounded to me that they were hoping to harness this reputed capacity to fill the gaps in professional counselling and psychiatric services, which is both patronising and dodgy.

Anyone who signs up with a particular loved one in mind is already very vulnerable to feelings of inadequacy and guilt. They'd better have an iron-clad training and backup system in place because "tlc" is not easy to prescribe, administer or monitor.

Many double drownings occur when someone goes into the water to save someone else, without a lifeline, so I think we should be very careful here.

Ruudi_Mentari

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_LRqO2kaVQ

DarkJager

Ruudi_Mentari wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_LRqO2kaVQ

Wow, that might be the worst attempt at music I've heard in a long time.

HondaSami

starlings wrote: »

Many double drownings occur when someone goes into the water to save someone else, without a lifeline, so I think we should be very careful here.

I'm not sure what you mean by this or the relevance of it.

starlings

starlings wrote: »

Many double drownings occur when someone goes into the water to save someone else, without a lifeline, so I think we should be very careful here.

HondaSami wrote: »

I'm not sure what you mean by this or the relevance of it.

that encouraging people to actively help their loved ones who may be at risk of suicide is putting them in a dangerous position.

VinLieger

suicide_circus wrote: »

I said suicide prevention is good but the gender focus is slightly questionable.

Why? i think the current figure is sometimng like 7/8 out of 10 sucides being male. I agree that it shouldnt be completely one dimensional as far as gender goes but when the figures are that stacked surely something has gone wrong somewhere and the larger emphasis needs to be on men?

HondaSami

starlings wrote: »

that encouraging people to actively help their loved ones who may be at risk of suicide is putting them in a dangerous position.

I'm not sure i agree with you, is it not natural to want to help loved ones? Are you talking about drowning in particular?

Would you not help a stranger in distress?

starlings

HondaSami wrote: »

I'm not sure i agree with you, is it not natural to want to help loved ones? Are you talking about drowning in particular?

Would you not help a stranger in distress?

Of course it's natural to want to help a loved one. But it's dangerous to assume that it's within your power to fix them. You run the risk of further alienating them (if they start to see themselves as a burden on you, or that you are nagging), and of hurting yourself by taking on an impossible responsibility if your efforts turn out to be in vain.

The drowning analogy is to say that you shouldn't rush to someone's aid without first figuring out your way back.

BrokenArrows

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I often wonder, question for the guys, if a friend came to you and confided in you that he was depressed and/or suicidal, would you know hwat to say?

Pints?

HondaSami

starlings wrote: »

Of course it's natural to want to help a loved one. But it's dangerous to assume that it's within your power to fix them. You run the risk of further alienating them (if they start to see themselves as a burden on you, or that you are nagging), and of hurting yourself by taking on an impossible responsibility if your efforts turn out to be in vain.

The drowning analogy is to say that you shouldn't rush to someone's aid without first figuring out your way back.

I don't think anyone has the power to fix someone and this is not about that, it's simply asking people to look out for the men in their lives who may need help.
Telling one person can give people the confidence to talk with other people and then there will be a network of family/friends involved who can share the load.

Circling the Drain

This talking to people doesn't always work.
I attempted suicide some years ago by exhaust fumes. It took an awful long time and it was quite hard to maintain my courage for the time required so I failed. I should have chosen a quicker option. Eventually one night when I had drink taken I admitted it to my wife and my only brother and his wife. Nobody was supportive in any way. Soon after my brother broke off our business partnership and actively set out to destroy the part I was left with. I haven't spoken to him or her in a long long time now. It wasn't long before I was financially ruined. Some time later my wife and I had an argument and in a fit of anger she deliberately blurted the whole thing out in front of our two sons. She said they had the right to know what kind of a coward their father really was. I now have no brother, no money, a wife that despises me, I don't know what my sons think of me they never spoke of it again. I have no confidence, pride or personal dignity left. My life is a day to day hell. I don't even have the courage any more to attempt to end it. I would not be the first to advise anybody to talk things out. People will judge you and they will never forget. There will always be a doubt. There will always be a cloud over you. The best you can hope for is that either you will find a way through it under your own steam or that at least your end will be quick and painless. That's just my experience, make of it as you will.

Ilik Urgee

These are all failings on others' behalf Circle The Drain,not yours!
You owe them nothing,only to yourself,and that is to give yourself the chance to approach your sons someday when it hurts a lot less.

Ava_e

Ilik Urgee wrote: »

These are all failings on others' behalf Circle The Drain,not yours!
.

Well said.

Circle The Drain you are not a failure the attitude of others failed you. You are still here fighting, please remember there is hope, there is help and there is change.

"Sometimes even to live is an act of courage ".

Stay strong, buddy.