The Ladies Lounge. Whats in an name?

Kettleson

With respect, the title "Ladies Lounge" suggests to me the acceptance of traditional sexist roles where females where expected to wait excluded in a side room in relative public view, whilst males were hidden behind closed doors in the private "Gentlemans Club", smoking cigars and talking men talk and "doing" whatever else they did, their wives waiting dutifully until the "Gentlemans business" was concluded.

I suggest that a name change might be long overdue? Perhaps a poll to members?

From Wiktionary

"A room in a pub or hotel, separate from the main drinking area, in which drinks are served; originally a place for women to drink in when not welcome or not comfortable in the traditionally male-oriented public bar, and latterly a more genteel area than the public bar".

Honey-ec

Three... two...

Kettleson

Honey-ec wrote: »

Three... two...

I presume you are suggesting that this thread is going to be locked? Why so? Its a reasonable observation.

Lyaiera

I suggest the insertion of a comma after "ladies."

B0jangles

This is what I imagine its really like.




(If we were victorian suffragettes of course.)

Ice Storm

Remember when it was going to be called the Patsy forum? :pac:

Heh, that auto corrected to pasty!

SarahBeep!

I like it, it takes the original meaning of lounge tongue in cheek. God forbid a play on words might be sexist.

Honey-ec

SarahBeep! wrote: »

I like it, it takes the original meaning of lounge tongue in cheek. God forbid a play on words might be sexist.

Or, you know, a pleasing bit of alliteration...

username123

I imagine it with the word About at the end.

Pepe LeFrits

I suggest The Wimin's Gaff.

The Big Red Button

It annoys me how it's Ladies' for the main forum, but Ladies for the private forum.

username123

chatterpillar wrote: »

It annoys me how it's Ladies' for the main forum, but Ladies for the private forum.

Theres a private forum?

Lyaiera

username123 wrote: »

Theres a private forum?

It's for organising meet ups without the general public knowing and crashing them. When people want some privacy. I'm not in it as I don't plan on going to a meet up so I think that's what it's about.

Princess Peach

chatterpillar wrote: »

It annoys me how it's Ladies' for the main forum, but Ladies for the private forum.

It also annoys me how it's The ladies' lounge, but ladies lounge private.

They need to be together alphabetically on my forum list :pac:

In fairness to the topic, nowadays gentleman's clubs have a different connotation than men smoking cigars and drinking scotch.

username123

Lyaiera wrote: »

It's for organising meet ups without the general public knowing and crashing them. When people want some privacy. I'm not in it as I don't plan on going to a meet up so I think that's what it's about.

How do you know its there at all? I cant see it - or can I?

username123

username123 wrote: »

How do you know its there at all? I cant see it - or can I?

It's in the charter
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056884565

username123

bluewolf wrote: »

It's in the charter
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056884565

Ah - that explains it, sorry off topic but because I cant see all the menus and sub menus under Soc because they dont display in my browser, I just wondered if me not seeing it was a symptom of that. Now I get it. Cheers.

RoundyMooney

Wasn't it called Lipstick and Control Pants for a while?

Or am I imagining things again?

Dravokivich

Funnily enough, there is an alternative for men, called "The Gentleman's Club," so would you be looking for a change there as well?

Kettleson

Dravokivich wrote: »

Funnily enough, there is an alternative for men, called "The Gentleman's Club," so would you be looking for a change there as well?

Yes, I was aware of that, and consideration could also be given to that to if anyone could be bothered.

I'm not out to cause a fuss, but I am surprised at the apparent unchallenged acceptance of such negative stereotyping.

From Counter Currents.org:


"Stereotypes occur when individuals are classifieds by others as having something in common because they are members of a particular group or category of people. Gender stereotypes are a psychological process which illustrates structured sets of beliefs about the personal attributes of men and women. An awareness of the contents of gender role stereotypes begins in the preschool years and is rather well-developed by the time children enter first grade. Parents are among the more important socializing agents for children in shaping values, beliefs and behaviors related to gender. Furthermore knowing the sex of the baby conjures up all kinds of personality characteristics and physical attributes even when these factors are not present in the child. Parents communicate their stereotypes to children in numerous ways. Boys are given building blocks, sports equipment and model vehicles. Girls, on the other hand, are encouraged to play with dolls, dolls houses and miniature household appliances.

The Big Red Button

Kettleson wrote: »

Yes, I was aware of that, and consideration could also be given to that to if anyone could be bothered.

I'm not out to cause a fuss, but I am surprised at the apparent unchallenged acceptance of such negative stereotyping.

From Counter Currents.org:


"Stereotypes occur when individuals are classifieds by others as having something in common because they are members of a particular group or category of people. Gender stereotypes are a psychological process which illustrates structured sets of beliefs about the personal attributes of men and women. An awareness of the contents of gender role stereotypes begins in the preschool years and is rather well-developed by the time children enter first grade. Parents are among the more important socializing agents for children in shaping values, beliefs and behaviors related to gender. Furthermore knowing the sex of the baby conjures up all kinds of personality characteristics and physical attributes even when these factors are not present in the child. Parents communicate their stereotypes to children in numerous ways. Boys are given building blocks, sports equipment and model vehicles. Girls, on the other hand, are encouraged to play with dolls, dolls houses and miniature household appliances.

The name is meant in a tongue-in-cheek way.

It's not stereotyping, because the forum isn't actually used to chat about ironing and laundry, etc. And the forum isn't a place for women to hide away from 'male only' areas of the website - women are perfectly welcome to post in After Hours, The Gentlemens Club, wherever else. Same as men are perfectly welcome to post here.

If this forum was used to promote gender stereotypes, I'd be opposed to the forum itself - not just the name. As it is, it's a place where such stereotypes are unwelcome. So I've no problem with the name.

Kettleson

Putting it into context, when I was a student in the North East of England in the early 90's, we as a mixed group, would often visit Working Mens Clubs and the local Catholic Clubs (basically an Irish social club) to meet friends and have a cheap beer.

Most if not all of these clubs had "Ladies Lounges" where women had to stay, they were not allowed into the Men Only main bar under any circumstances, the one exception was for them to clean the floors and tables.

On a couple of occasions, we politely challenged this by going into the main men only bar as a mixed group, and you can imagine the commotion it caused. But to put in bluntly we were run out of the place.

I'm sure that fewer of these "Ladies Lounges" exist nowadays, but they are still there. I don't like the association with the name, and I'm sure that if any one has had any such experience, they might appreciate where I'm coming from on this.

Posy

What kind of name would you suggest, Kettleson?

Kettleson

Posy wrote: »

What kind of name would you suggest, Kettleson?

A good question Posy, I'll throw that one open to the floor for now. But it would obviously be one that reflects gender in a positive way.

Are you male or female kettleson?

Dravokivich

Kettleson wrote: »

Yes, I was aware of that, and consideration could also be given to that to if anyone could be bothered.

I'm not out to cause a fuss, but I am surprised at the apparent unchallenged acceptance of such negative stereotyping.

To be honest, I don't see how this can be anything other than causing a fuss by imposing the stereotype yourself, when no predominant signs of the stereotyping you infer exist here. Other than what appears to be basing it on the names of the forums.

They are just quick titles that people can associate with at a glance, where they'd post about a particular range of topics and expect them to be handled in a certain way.

Lyaiera

The name of the last chat thread was "Loungers who Lunch" (or one of the ones before.) That's presumably based on the Ladies Who Lunch, well to do wives who would meet for lunch in the club house while their husbands were playing golf. And that too was a joke. The difference being it's a joke made by ourselves at stereotypical notions of ourselves. You could brand it reclaiming the word, you could brand it irony, you could brand it sarcasm. Whatever way you brand it it's the women of this forum who own it, and I think you'd be seriously devaluing our experiences if you think anyone here would tolerate it being used negatively.

Kettleson

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you male or female kettleson?

Male. Is that of any significance?

Look I'm not going to change anything here, as well we all know. I am just airing my opinion that the "Ladies Lounge" and "The Gentlemens Club" are titles with negative stereotyping connotations.

Silverfish

Kettleson wrote: »

Putting it into context, when I was a student in the North East of England in the early 90's, we as a mixed group, would often visit Working Mens Clubs and the local Catholic Clubs (basically an Irish social club) to meet friends and have a cheap beer.

Most if not all of these clubs had "Ladies Lounges" where women had to stay, they were not allowed into the Men Only main bar under any circumstances, the one exception was for them to clean the floors and tables.

On a couple of occasions, we politely challenged this by going into the main men only bar as a mixed group, and you can imagine the commotion it caused. But to put in bluntly we were run out of the place.

I'm sure that fewer of these "Ladies Lounges" exist nowadays, but they are still there. I don't like the association with the name, and I'm sure that if any one has had any such experience, they might appreciate where I'm coming from on this.

In naming the forum the Ladies(') Lounge, we're taking the phrase back, on OUR terms.

Kettleson

Silverfish wrote: »

In naming the forum the Ladies(') Lounge, we're taking the phrase back, on OUR terms.

Excellent, a small yet positive change!

Kettleson

Kettleson wrote: »

Male. Is that of any significance?

Look I'm not going to change anything here, as well we all know. I am just airing my opinion that the "Ladies Lounge" and "The Gentlemens Club" are titles with negative stereotyping connotations.

It just seems a little odd that your first post in this forum, is a thread about the ladies of the ladies' lounge being somehow sexist by allowing such a name without argument. Infact, it seems quite trolly to be honest.

Kettleson

Deleted User wrote: »

It just seems a little odd that your first post in this forum, is a thread about the ladies of the ladies' lounge being somehow sexist by allowing such a name without argument. Infact, it seems quite trolly to be honest.

I was wondering when someone would pull out the Troll card.

Kettleson

Kettleson wrote: »

I was wondering when someone would pull out the Troll card.

Ah, so you were fully aware that you would look like you were trolling. That says a lot really.

I'm going to lock this thread now. Here's an idea, seeing as you have never posted in tLL before this thread, why not hang around a while, get a feel for the place, you'll soon see that sexism isn't taken kindly to around here

When you've contributed and are comfortable in the forum, your feedback would be very welcome in our feedback thread which is stickied on the front page.

In the mean time, please don't troll the ladies' lounge, you won't last long here if you do.

Enjoy!