Bioshock Infinite - 'The Ending' Discussion Thread (Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers!)

Branoic

Finished it last night, absolutely loved the ending, and everything that led up to it. Everything from the moment that Songbird takes Elizabeth just before Comstock House onwards was just masterfully designed.

I loved the explanation for everything at the end also, but then, I'm just a sucker for these types of many world stories.

I'm pretty sure I understood everything - only one Booker needing to die to close off all the other possible alternate realities where Comstock lives etc, makes sense. There were just two things I'm not 100% on, and I'm not sure if theres an explanation or if they're just plot holes we're meant to ignore -

1) The tears and altered memories
It's pretty clear that going through a tear messes with your brain and your subconscious has to struggle to cope. We see at the end when our Booker is first brought through the tear by Robert to the boat that he blacks out and as he comes around he makes up the back story about what he's doing - retrieving the girl etc. Robert also says he went through it, and we can see the effect that it had on the various soldiers that we killed when we encounter them again after a tear.

So...what effect, if any, does the tear travel have on Comstock's memory when he travels to Bookers world to take Elizabeth and then back to his own world? And during the course of the game, our Booker makes multiple tear jumps with Elizabeth but doesn't appear to be knocked out or have his memory completely messed up. Is there a proper reason for this or is it just ignored for the sake of gameplay?

2) Our Booker drowning at the end - why?
I get the ending. I get that the baptism is a singular branching point from which all the other Comstock realities spring, so by stopping that baptism once, the entire Comstock line is closed off.

But...what we actually see doesn't make any sense to me. Our Booker being drowned by loads of Elizabeths at the baptism site which is empty of other people.

Logically, what should have happened was that our Booker and Elizabeth travel back to the baptism event in the universe where the Comstock decision originates, and once there they would have seen the scene about to unfold as it did - that universe's Booker surrounded by the pastor and the group of men, about to be baptised and emerge as the future Comstock. At that point, our Booker should have attacked and killed future-Comstock Booker.

Instead, there's no one there except a load of Elizabeths, who kill our Booker, who isn't even the version of Booker which becomes Comstock.

Am I missing something here? I've just chalked it up to that whole sequence being metaphorical / symbolic etc, and not a literal showing of what has to happen, and I can live with that explanation, but its not 100% satisfying.

BizzyC

Branoic wrote: »

Am I missing something here? I've just chalked it up to that whole sequence being metaphorical / symbolic etc, and not a literal showing of what has to happen, and I can live with that explanation, but its not 100% satisfying.

By drowning Booker before he can become Comstock, they avoid the different versions of his future involving Comstock.

Essentially ensuring that the only possible future is one where Booker never gave her up in the first place.

spankmaster2000

For the first hour or so; I was convinced that not only had I found my personal favourite game of 2013; but a new entry into my all-time top 5 games ever. That ranking dipped a little bit; particularly during the middle section; but for me, one of my main gripes is all the praise that's heaped on Elizabeth.

As a plot device / character; she works well; but technically she's not that revolutionary, is she? I mean; rather than having superb pathfinding / combat AI; she essentially has none. The enemies in the game literally ignore her. For that matter; she's the one who uses lockpicks; not Booker, so why can't she pick them up herself?

Also; at one stage, I started getting pretty frustrated with her constantly saying "Huh?", "Oh.", "Hmmmm.", "Oh.". I felt like grabbing her by the shoulders and shaking her and saying "Just spit it out Liz!! If you've got something interesting to tell me, just say it!!!".

Again though; just to stress; I'm talking about Elizabeth as a "technnical achievement" rather than a character.


As for the plot; I'm cool with the ending and the relevant twists. Frankly, I'm a bit of a dunce, so I wasn't over-thinking the plot before the relevant twists were revealed to me. As such; I probably had quite a dopey look of shock on my face when Booker shouted "Give me back my daughter!!".

One thing I'm not quite so clear on however; is the significance of the 123 coin-flips at the start of the game. I assume it's implied that this is the 123rd Booker that the Lutece's have spoken with; but, were all 123 Bookers dropped into the same "Universe X"? If so; wouldn't those 123 attacks be fairly suspicious to the citizens of Columbia?

If not; then did it follow the below?:

Booker taken from Universe A; brought to Columbia in Universe X (dies)
Booker taken from Universe B; brought to Columbia in Universe Y (dies)
Booker taken from Universe C; brought to Columbia in Universe Z (succeeds; but is then killed)

At what point do all the Elizabeth's appear in all the other universes?

Sarky

Finally got round to finishing the last fight. The vigour combos make things much easier. Bucking Bronco followed by a charge gets rid of almost anything.

Anyway: Masterful ending. Very clever. I really liked Songbird, it had way more personality than any of the Big Daddies. Well so did just about everyone else in the game too, especially the protagonist. The illusion of choice theme was very nicely done. Sublime game, far superior to the other Bioshocks.

Branoic

BizzyC wrote: »

By drowning Booker before he can become Comstock, they avoid the different versions of his future involving Comstock.

Essentially ensuring that the only possible future is one where Booker never gave her up in the first place.

Yeah, I get that, but that's not what's happening. The version of the Booker that they drown at the end, ie the player character, is never and was never the version of Booker which became Comstock. The point was that they had to go back to kill the future-Comstock version of Booker. I fail to see how drowning our Booker achieves this.

sulc84

I tried game on max ,and then set to normal Graphic is amazing !

marco_polo

Branoic wrote: »

Yeah, I get that, but that's not what's happening. The version of the Booker that they drown at the end, ie the player character, is never and was never the version of Booker which became Comstock. The point was that they had to go back to kill the future-Comstock version of Booker. I fail to see how drowning our Booker achieves this.

What I took from it was that in the Bioshock Infinate multiverse, multiple Boolers/Comstocks can co-exist as they move between alternative realities (universes on separate branches of the tree), but as you move backwards in time (along your own branch) you 'become' the past version of yourself.

That said I personally try not to over analyse things like this I have really enjoyed (be it a book film etc), partially in case I think of massive plot holes in retrospect, and partially so my head doesn't explode :P.

Barlett

The real outcome of this game is that I now find myself regularly listening to and humming Girls Just Wanna Have Fun

SeantheMan

Barlett wrote: »

The real outcome of this game is that I now find myself regularly listening to and humming Girls Just Wanna Have Fun

I immediately went and learned God Only Knows on guitar, always loved that song...but was stuck in my head for days after

sulc84

Also friend told me that game is short

Sarky

It's not. Well, not really. I got a good 15 hours out of my first playthrough, and I'm certain to play through again on 1999 because a whole load of things are likely to take on new meaning in light of the ending, so that's at least 30 hours for me.

Either way, games this good don't come along often, so even if you just play it the once, it's well worth it.

johnny_ultimate

Someone says every game is 'too short'. If anything, there are one or two sections in this that could have easily been trimmed (like the bits where you have to fight an enemy two or three times) to help the game flow a little better.

If you rush through the game from fight to fight without exploring the abandoned buildings and eerie alleways you're not playing right anyway.

TimeToShine

Branoic wrote: »

Yeah, I get that, but that's not what's happening. The version of the Booker that they drown at the end, ie the player character, is never and was never the version of Booker which became Com
stock. The point was that they had to go back to kill the future-Comstock version of Booker. I fail to see how drowning our Booker achieves this.

If they didn't drown Booker there and then he would have gone on to either become Comstock or become the protagonist of the storyline you just played through. By drowning him there and then they prevent the development of Comstock and hence the development of Booker DeWitt as having to rescue Elizabeth. The version of Booker than remains is the one that never gave his daughter away in the first place and forced the baptism choice to be made.

C14N

TimeToShine wrote: »

If they didn't drown Booker there and then he would have gone on to either become Comstock or become the protagonist of the storyline you just played through. By drowning him there and then they prevent the development of Comstock and hence the development of Booker DeWitt as having to rescue Elizabeth. The version of Booker than remains is the one that never gave his daughter away in the first place and forced the baptism choice to be made.

But the game goes with the multiverse theory that every time something happens, the universe splits into different universes with different outcomes. So based on this, there should be a lot more than one Comstock, just like there was more than one Booker who refused the baptism and therefore, there should be an infinite number of Bookers in various other worlds who did not get drowned.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

yeah it's a small turn your brain off moment for the sake of the story but they're entitled to it I think

Kiith

Finally got around to starting this yesterday...and finished it at 2am last night :P

Absolutely loved it i have to say. I started to suspect Booker was Comstock towards the end, but it never dawned on me that Elizabeth was Anna for some reason. Was a bit of a shock, and as someone else said, almost veered into

Oldboy

territory. And I definitely had a few minutes after the last scene of just staring at the screen, trying to get my head around everything. I loved the ending though, and the scene at the end was a nice touch

Fair play to Irrational for trying, and for the most part, succeeding in creating such a detailed and deep story.

C14N

^might want to fix that spoiler tag there

ionapaul

Just finished this last night, my favourite game of the year for sure. 9.5/10 for me! I really, really enjoyed the story, the setting and the ending. Don't have enough free time to think of playing it through again (not for a few years anyhow), but thoroughly enjoyed the 13 hours I spend in Columbia.

noodler

More thoughts!

Okay, so I had the same criticism as others that killing one Booker wouldn't change but if people feel it is implied that because there are many Elizabeths - that this is happening in every world then fair enough!



Another thought though:

Booker and Elizabeth go through tears at least twice in the game.

The world you knew when the game started is gone - that kind of plays complete havoc with making any sense of the plot in a way, no? Okay, we know Booker is dead in Vox Martyr world but where is that world's Elizabeth? Why does that world's Comstock still know about Booker and consider him a threat if he died already in the Vox fight?

The fact, you switch worlds once or twice in the middle of the game kind of throws everything off for me.

iColdFusion

noodler wrote: »

Booker and Elizabeth go through tears at least twice in the game.

The world you knew when the game started is gone - that kind of plays complete havoc with making any sense of the plot in a way, no? Okay, we know Booker is dead in Vox Martyr world but where is that world's Elizabeth? Why does that world's Comstock still know about Booker and consider him a threat if he died already in the Vox fight?

The fact, you switch worlds once or twice in the middle of the game kind of throws everything off for me.

I only just passed Infinite and this bit doesn't make alot of sense, you go through tears to try and get the weapons but your jumping into worlds where Booker doesn't have a deal with Daisy, surely they should have just pulled the tools or gunsmith into their own universe!

Overall I really liked the game and I love they way they don't spoon feed you the story but instead leave it up to you to figure it out, about halfway through I worked out that AD on your hand was Anna DuWitt but I thought this was his wifes name and then near the end one of the Comstock voices speakes in Bookers voice.


The ending has alot of similarities to the main story arc of Fringe too, Comstock jumps to a parallel universe damaging the time/space continuum to take a child from a version of himself who then wants revenge and the Luteces are like Observers.

Potatoeman

They should just do the next one in space. The open environment in this one and the enemies really didnt have the same tense atmosphere.

marco_polo

Potatoeman wrote: »

They should just do the next one in space. The open environment in this one and the enemies really didnt have the same tense atmosphere.

Space was already rather well done in SS2

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

http://www.gog.com/game/system_shock_2

it's also 1.99 dollars for the next 3 hours....

Cravez

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

http://www.gog.com/game/system_shock_2

it's also 1.99 dollars for the next 3 hours....

Such a gem of a game, still scares the sh!t out of me while playing it.

*skulking around desolate dark corridors then hearing in the distance* " We are.... WE ARE..... "

Potatoeman

marco_polo wrote: »

Space was already rather well done in SS2

Yeah I played that recently. Bioshock 1 & 2 and Systemshock 1 & 2 had that same trapped and alone atmosphere. Its just not there in this game, as a standalone game it would be fine but I had different expectations of this series. Its time to remake systemshock.