€3750 for per year for house tax...

WilyCoyote

Thank your lucky stars boys and girls. We pay just over $5000 per annum. Every fecking year 'til we croak. Even when you just buy a house, the property tax is factored into your mortgage repayments. A couple just two miles away pay $19,700 per annum. Their nice house overlooks the valley and local town. The payment includes a "view tax" - where you're taxed on scenic locations. If you fall behind with your taxes, your house is foreclosed by Uncle Sam.

Antar Bolaeisk

How do you even assess a view for taxation?

Inspector: Okay so you can see three trees, the lake is 50% visible, the wind turbine is a bit of a detractor, oh but you've got a partial on the mountain peak. That'll be €1,000 view tax please.
Me: But I don't even like trees!
Inspector: Tough, I do.

WilyCoyote

I bet you're from Gortahurk?

heyjude

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Thank your lucky stars boys and girls. We pay just over $5000 per annum. Every fecking year 'til we croak. Even when you just buy a house, the property tax is factored into your mortgage repayments. A couple just two miles away pay $19,700 per annum. Their nice house overlooks the valley and local town. The payment includes a "view tax" - where you're taxed on scenic locations. If you fall behind with your taxes, your house is foreclosed by Uncle Sam.

And you pay a sales tax of what 6-8%,the standard rate of VAT(sales tax) here is 23%. So if you factor in the extra 15-17% on many of your purchases over a year that runs into possibly thousands. Sales taxes here are usually included in the price tags on products, not added on at the checkout as in the US, so its harder to see how much you've paid in sales tax(vat).

Having a quick look at fuel taxes, I see that gasoline tax across the United States averaged 48c per US gallon in Jan this year. Last December, the Automobile Association here found that taxes accounted for 54.5% of the pump price of gasoline(petrol) here. Currently petrol is about 1.59 Euro per litre(so assuming an exchange rate of 1 Euro = $1.31 and 3.78541 Litres per US gallon),that means a US gallon of gas(petrol) here costs $7.88 of which at least $3.94 is tax. So you pay 48c tax per gallon and we pay $3.94 tax per gallon. I won't get into the rates of tax on purchasing new cars either. But if you can't afford the high fuel taxes, you don't drive.

So yes, while property taxes might be higher in the US, if you add 15-17% extra sales tax(VAT) on most non-food purchases here and add in fuel taxes that can be 8 times as high as the US, plus other government taxes and charges(for example the compulsory TV Licence which must be purchased annually by every household with a TV and which currently costs 160 Euro ($209)), we might actually end up paying more in total. They just spread the taxes out more here, so you pay a bit here and a bit there, but its harder to see what your overall total is.

WilyCoyote

Hey heyjude! I understand. But you can opt to pay as few of these purchase taxes if you like. Just spend less. However here, there is no respite. Pay your property tax or the Government will take your house.

Slick50

Phoebas wrote: »

I doubt that comes into it.

I'd say it does come into it, because the property price register doesn't tell them who owns what, so they are sending out assessments blindly.

Phoebas wrote: »

I'd say its a self assessment tax because homeowners are better placed to assess the value of their houses than the Revenue are.

So why are they sending them out at all, especially considering they haven't even reached the deadline date yet. Are they worried about the numbers that won't comply?

WilyCoyote wrote:

If you fall behind with your taxes, your house is foreclosed by Uncle Sam.

WilyCoyote wrote:

Pay your property tax or the Government will take your house.

Which is a very good reason to defeat it now... it is only a matter of time before this becomes the case here too.

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Hey heyjude! I understand. But you can opt to pay as few of these purchase taxes if you like. Just spend less. However here, there is no respite. Pay your property tax or the Government will take your house.

What an absolute crock... that's almost as good as "sell your house, so you won't be liable"

lomb

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Hey heyjude! I understand. But you can opt to pay as few of these purchase taxes if you like. Just spend less. However here, there is no respite. Pay your property tax or the Government will take your house.

But income taxes are alot lower. The income taxes here approach half of labour, addionally out of whats left there is 23% vat, massive excise taxes on Petrol, new cars etc. Frankly the US system encourages work. If you want a nice house, you pay for it and keep paying which means you need to work. Stop working and they take it away or you move down. Lazy people need not apply. Probably the right way:pac:.

Phoebas

Slick50 wrote: »

I'd say it does come into it, because the property price register doesn't tell them who owns what, so they are sending out assessments blindly.
So why are they sending them out at all, especially considering they haven't even reached the deadline date yet. Are they worried about the numbers that won't comply?

Yeah. They've been very clear that they don't have a fully comprehensive database. Raising assessments based on their best information is a really good way of getting the information they need because if you fail to respond to them they'll just start collecting tax from you.

So I don't think they are worried so much about non compliance - you don't need to 'comply' to pay the tax they assess.

ZeroThreat

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Hey heyjude! I understand. But you can opt to pay as few of these purchase taxes if you like. Just spend less. However here, there is no respite. Pay your property tax or the Government will take your house.

well the money to support your massive military, dozens of carriers, hundreds of warships, thousands of nukes doesn't come out of thin air, now does it

Slick50

Phoebas wrote: »

Raising assessments based on their best information is a really good way of getting the information they need because if you fail to respond to them they'll just start collecting tax from you.

So like I said, sending them out willy-nilly, and the only information they'll be getting back is they are wrong.

lomb wrote:

If you want a nice house, you pay for it and keep paying which means you need to work. Stop working and they take it away or you move down.

And when you retire???? What happened to property rights?, which is always being cited as the reason we "can't touch the pensions" of the chief culprits in this economic mess.

UCDVet

SamHall wrote: »

Didn't I read on a different thread that the LPT wasn't applicable to you as you still live with your parents?

Didn't I read on a different thread that the LPT wasn't applicable to you as your mamma is sooooo ugly that the government declared your house a hazard zone?

(I think it's safe to assume the answer to both questions is 'no', but what do I know?)

Slick50

UCDVet wrote: »

Didn't I read on a different thread that the LPT wasn't applicable to you as your mamma is sooooo ugly that the government declared your house a hazard zone)

I think that may be deemed as baiting!

Banjo String

UCDVet wrote: »

Didn't I read on a different thread that the LPT wasn't applicable to you as your mamma is sooooo ugly that the government declared your house a hazard zone?

(I think it's safe to assume the answer to both questions is 'no', but what do I know?)

No need for that tbh.

If I didn't read it, apology offered. Bit of maturity wouldn't go amiss though.

dr.bollocko

MOD:

UCDVet, SamHall, please don't drag stuff from other threads into here. No need for the insults either. Please cut it out from here on out.

Any questions via PM please. Lets not derail the thread any further.

Phoebas

Slick50 wrote: »

So like I said, sending them out willy-nilly, and the only information they'll be getting back is they are wrong.

Is that part of a wider strategy or are you just cutting off your nose to spite your face?; because you must realise that the Revenue will just collect the assessed amount.

relax carry on

lomb wrote: »

But income taxes are alot lower. The income taxes here approach half of labour, addionally out of whats left there is 23% vat, massive excise taxes on Petrol, new cars etc. Frankly the US system encourages work. If you want a nice house, you pay for it and keep paying which means you need to work. Stop working and they take it away or you move down. Lazy people need not apply. Probably the right way:pac:.

This keeps cropping up in multiple threads. The VAT rate of 23% does not apply to every good or service you purchase in this country. There's the 13.5% rate, the 9% and 0%. Have a look if you have a few minutes to kill and can't get to sleep.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/rates/index.jsp

Also "income taxes here approach half of labour". What exactly do you mean by that.

looking_around

Phoebas wrote: »

Yeah. But the problem is the revenue interest/penalties is paying rent on something you owe.

Not everyone "owes" on their house, though . I know a few people who don't have mortgages.

It's just wrong.

And I would stand with anyone who wants to camp out against it in Dublin.

But oh wait, we're all just talk, aren't we...

I'm not against property tax for SECOND homes. But I still believe it's morally wrong to tax your only shelter >.>

bgrizzley

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Hey heyjude! I understand. But you can opt to pay as few of these purchase taxes if you like. Just spend less. However here, there is no respite. Pay your property tax or the Government will take your house.

In time the legislation will be changed so we can have that too Wily. The HHC was just a lovey-dovey-foot-in-the-door kinda tax.
Give it a couple of decades here and the government will be evicting families from their homes just like the absentee landlords of our past.

Slick50

Phoebas wrote: »

Is that part of a wider strategy or are you just cutting off your nose to spite your face?; because you must realise that the Revenue will just collect the assessed amount.

I don't know how widely adopted this is at the moment. The revenue are not above the law either, and cannot take what they like from who they like, when they like. They have to have some basis on which to form an opinion you are liable, other than a name and address. Other wise they are leaving themselves open to legal action, not to mention wasting money and time.

As per the bill:

Revenue Commissioners may estimate the amount of local
property tax which they consider will be payable by a liable person
or a person whom they have reason to believe is a liable person, in
relation to a liability date

Another snippet from the bill...

74.—(1) Subject to sections 72(1)and73, an employer shall be
accountable for the amount of local property tax deductible, and
shall be liable to remit that amount to the Revenue Commissioners,
as if it were an amount of income tax deductible in accordance with
the PAYE Regulations.

At little bit ironic, when we hear all the bleating from government about how detrimental tax on employment is. And don't forget this is taken from your net income, so you are paying PAYE and PRSI on your property tax!

ilovesleep

I'm suprised after hours hasn't gone into meltdown already. It was reported in the paper today that property tax will rise by 15% from september of next year - 2014.

delthedriver

Phoebas wrote: »

I think its Richie Boucher you're referring to. He is the BoI CEO. They are not state owned, but the state is a minor shareholder.

Complete and utter joke shop!

delthedriver

looking_around wrote: »

Not everyone "owes" on their house, though . I know a few people who don't have mortgages.

It's just wrong.

And I would stand with anyone who wants to camp out against it in Dublin.

But oh wait, we're all just talk, aren't we...

I'm not against property tax for SECOND homes. But I still believe it's morally wrong to tax your only shelter >.>

Even the person who has a second home has already paid stamp duty on purchase of the property !

delthedriver

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Do you really want that legal system or just once its only for other people? Id say youd be fairly against it if a crime was commited close enough to you for you to be viable suspect.

After that we can deal with your list of laws "the bankers" your referring to broke..........

And for clarity, is it everyone that worked in a bank/people above a certain level/ the people that signed mortgages that people willingly asked for or who exactly?

Eh?

Phoebas

ilovesleep wrote: »

I'm suprised after hours hasn't gone into meltdown already. It was reported in the paper today that property tax will rise by 15% from september of next year - 2014.

No it wasn't.

ilovesleep

Phoebas wrote: »

No it wasn't.

Yes it was reported. On the front cover of the daily mail. It was also on tv3 where they read out the front of the papers.

looking_around

delthedriver wrote: »

Even the person who has a second home has already paid stamp duty on purchase of the property !

Yeah, but the second home IS a luxury

Phoebas

ilovesleep wrote: »

Yes it was reported. On the front cover of the daily mail. It was also on tv3 where they read out the front of the papers.

You must have misheard and/or misread it on a couple of counts.
1. Local authorities will have the power to raise property tax rates by up to 15%, but none have decided to actually raise rates.
2. It can only be done from Jan 2015, not September 2014

Finance wrote:

From 1 January 2015 local authorities will
have discretion to vary the LPT rates by +/- 15% of the national central
rate.

delthedriver

looking_around wrote: »

Yeah, but the second home IS a luxury

Perhaps,though it depends on one's circumstances eg divorce.
We should not lose sight of the fact that the Celtic Tiger was created on the back of construction industry,
second home sales made up a large section of total sales. The Government also received the same amount of taxes per housing unit whether a main residence or second home.:)

Banjo String

Phoebas wrote: »

You must have misheard and/or misread it on a couple of counts.
1. Local authorities will have the power to raise property tax rates by up to 15%, but none have decided to actually raise rates.
2. It can only be done from Jan 2015, not September 2014

It will only ever go one way Phoebes.^^^
There is only three whole months separating sept and Jan btw.