Ethnically Catholic...

krudler

ejmaztec wrote: »

No it's just an obsessive atheist minority thinking that anyone making themselves out to be a Catholic is a liar.

If you claim to be something and don't follow any of the rules requiring you to be what you claim to be then yeah, its a fair point.

awec

Ireland is a nation of picky choosy religious people. They are religious when it suits and they'll hide behind the "nobody is perfect" excuse when it doesn't.

Grayson

Devon High Radiator wrote: »

I don't agree with getting rid of catholic education in national schools or secondary schools either.

See that word in bold? They're national schools. Schools run by the government. Why should the government subsidize the teaching of one religion? It'd make sense in Saudi or Iran. But I can't see why the government should assist in the teaching of any particular religion.

And good for you that you go to mass, but a lot of people don't. A LOT. The numbers have dropped drastically. Take for example the number of irish priests ordained every year. There was a time about 50 years ago when there would be close to 100 a year in a bigger diocese like Meath/Kildare. Now the number can be counted on one hand. The catholic church is in steep decline and it's accelerating even faster now.

humbert

They should do like Germany and tax people depending on their religion. We'd become a nation of atheists over night.

Pushtrak

Pudders wrote: »

catholic agnostic rather than atheist I reckon

...

Midlife Crashes

I think the amount of "true" Christians is staying the same. Agreed there are some people just relying on their parents faith but Jesus teaches that everyone has to be "born again" meaning there has to come a time when they decide they want to live with Christ and give up sin. Many people don't do this. Those who do call themselves Christians seldom have a deep, personal relationship with Father.

Cian92

Grayson wrote: »

And good for you that you go to mass, but a lot of people don't. A LOT. The numbers have dropped drastically. Take for example the number of irish priests ordained every year. There was a time about 50 years ago when there would be close to 100 a year in a bigger diocese like Meath/Kildare. Now the number can be counted on one hand. The catholic church is in steep decline and it's accelerating even faster now.

If you want to pass your local church next Sunday, you will most likely see that they are packed. People struggle to get parking.

There aren't enough priests getting ordained, but that doesn't mean that we have less Roman Catholics. Unless something is done about it, it will become a real problem not having enough priests. In some areas it already has, with priests working doing even more masses than they traditionally would due to a lack of priests.

Grayson

o1s1n wrote: »

If you go to confession you are repenting, therefore you are no longer committing these sins (or at least are trying to stop).

Or were you being sarcastic and is my detector clearly broken? :pac:

I think it was sarcasm. But from a factual point of view, for a catholic to be absolved there are one of two conditions that have to be met.

They have to be sorry they comitted a sin because

a) they realise what they did was wrong
b) they're scared of going to hell.

Seriously, part b actually exists. IT's not necessary to be sorry for the actual sin. The same with doing a correct action or not doing a bad one. Whereas God wants to to do the right thing because it's the right thing (i.e. His will), it's enough to do it because you just don't want to piss him off.

--Kaiser--

Most 'Irish Catholics' are nothing of the sort

awec

humbert wrote: »

They should do like Germany and tax people depending on their religion. We'd become a nation of atheists over night.

The church itself should be taxed. I fail to see why it is exempt.

It is a business, it is making money from people. Tax it.

Pushtrak

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Most 'Irish Catholics' are nothing of the sort

Well, they are Irish.














:pac:

krudler

Cian92 wrote: »

If you want to pass your local church next Sunday, you will most likely see that they are packed. People struggle to get parking.

There aren't enough priests getting ordained, but that doesn't mean that we have less Roman Catholics. Unless something is done about it, it will become a real problem not having enough priests. In some areas it already has, with priests working doing even more masses than they traditionally would due to a lack of priests.

Easter Sunday and Christmas are probably the only days a year you'll see a full church in fairness

Fromthetrees

Midlife Crashes wrote: »

I think the amount of "true" Christians is staying the same. Agreed there are some people just relying on their parents faith but Jesus teaches that everyone has to be "born again" meaning there has to come a time when they decide they want to live with Christ and give up sin. Many people don't do this. Those who do call themselves Christians seldom have a deep, personal relationship with Father.

I think the amount of 'true' Christians is going to continuously diminish as time goes by as Irish children/people are only going to become more educated.

krudler

awec wrote: »

The church itself should be taxed. I fail to see why it is exempt.

It is a business, it is making money from people. Tax it.

That a million times

Knasher

Devon High Radiator wrote: »

I'm mid 20's and go to mass as do a number of people I know, not everyone goes but not everyone has stopped going either as some people like to think.

That doesn't really say much. I'd say about 80% of the people I know play computer games, but that is just indicative of the people I hang around with. It says more about me than it does about society. The same goes for you knowing other people who still attend.
It also wouldn't say much if your church happens to have a large attendance, that could just as easily be because the church you attend serves a large population.

What would be interesting is demographics. What is your estimate of the ratio of people in their 20s to people in their 60s?

ABajaninCork

Cian92 wrote: »

If you want to pass your local church next Sunday, you will most likely see that they are packed. People struggle to get parking.

There aren't enough priests getting ordained, but that doesn't mean that we have less Roman Catholics. Unless something is done about it, it will become a real problem not having enough priests. In some areas it already has, with priests working doing even more masses than they traditionally would due to a lack of priests.

Our PP recently passed away from a massive heart attack. He was only 49 years old. Although it's probably not the full story, I suspect the strain and pressure of work got to him. He was covering three churches. All are well-attended, albeit the majority of the people were older. Good many young people are attending Mass regularly too from what I see.

Three Seasons

ManMade wrote: »

That's a cultural catholic.
There is no we.
It's down to each individual to decide what they are, not atheists or the Catholic Church.

I'm Bengal tiger, I don't care what anyone says.

Grayson

Cian92 wrote: »

If you want to pass your local church next Sunday, you will most likely see that they are packed. People struggle to get parking.

There aren't enough priests getting ordained, but that doesn't mean that we have less Roman Catholics. Unless something is done about it, it will become a real problem not having enough priests. In some areas it already has, with priests working doing even more masses than they traditionally would due to a lack of priests.

The census results clearly state that we have less catholics. And that's still with a hundred thousand polish catholics in the country.

There are defoinitely less.

And even then, the number who attend mass regularly has declined.

http://www.catholicbishops.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Practice-and-Belief-among-Catholics-in-the-Republic-of-Ireland.pdf

42.1% of Catholics in the Republic of Ireland attend Mass once per week with a further 9% (downfrom 12.5% in ESS3) attending more often than that. About 21% attend at least once per month and a further 12% of Catholics in the Republic of Ireland attend only on special holy days. The
suggested generalised pattern of recent reports to a shift in monthly routine Mass attendance patterns is reinforced. The religion module of the 4th wave of the ISSP shows a similar pattern of change. In the chart below we can see how attendance at Mass amongst Catholics in the Republic is
structured.

Plus it shows that just 18% of catholics aged 18-24 and 23.4% of those aged 25-34 attend on a regular basis. But nearly 80% of them did when they were aged 12. However the figures for those from 55-64 show that nearly 70% of them attend mass on a regular basis. That makes sense. The kids aren't going, even though they are proclaimed catholics (Remember all these percentages are those that say they are catholic. So a protestant or a muslim wouldn't even make it into the survey) they really can't be bothered. But their parents still can.

What this means is that the church is filled with old people and isn't being replaced by younger people. Therefore it will die out.

Statistics, gotta love em.

Grayson

Midlife Crashes wrote: »

I think the amount of "true" Christians is staying the same. Agreed there are some people just relying on their parents faith but Jesus teaches that everyone has to be "born again" meaning there has to come a time when they decide they want to live with Christ and give up sin. Many people don't do this. Those who do call themselves Christians seldom have a deep, personal relationship with Father.

That's called confirmation. When someone confirms that they are catholic. Originally it was done by adults, a kind of second baptism. In a baptism you become a member of the church, but are inducted into it by your family. A confirmation is when an individual makes the decision themselves.

Which is why it's done at age 12

rubadub

Fromthetrees wrote: »

Off the top of my head the last census put the number of Catholics at nearly 90%,

I think the census needs to be a LOT more specific.

I saw an old thread on good friday where someone asked me if I was catholic. I asked how he would respond to both possible answers, as I was wary of this leading question. He refused to give the answers (as I expected). I said I would need a definition. His was
I would consider a Catholic to be someone who follows the teachings of the Catholic Church.
So I said certainly not. FFS I know of a young priest who would not be considered catholic by this guys definition.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/75-say-catholic-teachings-on-sex-are-not-relevant-1.500117

CATHOLIC CHURCH teachings on sexuality have “no relevance” for 75 per cent of Irish Catholics or for their families, according to a survey.
It also found that 87 per cent of Irish Catholics believe priests should be allowed marry, 77 per cent believe there should be women priests and 72 per cent believe older married men should be allowed become priests.

IF all these go against the teachings, then there is probably only a tiny %.

Some will continue to say they are to please relatives, saying they are not can seem like they are wanting to be confrontational or coaxing discussion, when most couldn't care less -so they tick the box since they got communion & confirmed. They probably figure they will get less hassle saying they are than saying they are not in public. Some might be worried about other repercussions, like "if I tick this can they find out and will my child be not be able to go to some schools".

shopaholic01

I wonder how many Irish people would choose to have their name remained from the baptism register if it was still allowed? It was stopped due to an increase in demand.

Grand Moff Tarkin

Fallen Jedi or to be more correct about it Sith Lord in training.

Midlife Crashes

Fromthetrees wrote: »

I think the amount of 'true' Christians is going to continuously diminish as time goes by as Irish children/people are only going to become more educated.

Because Christians are either too stupid to research the "truth" or have been brainwashed ?? Intelligent, well educated people are instantly atheists ???
A decline in Christianity is nothing new. It would be hard to find a century when the church and clergy have not faced challenges in ministry and concerns about decline. For example the decline that challenged Christianity during the last phase of imperial persecution in the early 4th century, when Christians lapsed or were martyred and churches and Christian books destroyed. The faith ultimately spread and flourished in response...
Things like this has happened a number of times throughout history but the church always comes back stronger while welcoming lapsed Christians back...

shopaholic01

Midlife Crashes wrote: »

Because Christians are either too stupid to research the "truth" or have been brainwashed ?? Intelligent, well educated people are instantly atheists ???
A decline in Christianity is nothing new. It would be hard to find a century when the church and clergy have not faced challenges in ministry and concerns about decline. For example the decline that challenged Christianity during the last phase of imperial persecution in the early 4th century, when Christians lapsed or were martyred and churches and Christian books destroyed. The faith ultimately spread and flourished in response...
Things like this has happened a number of times throughout history but the church always comes back stronger while welcoming lapsed Christians back...

Numbers falling in developed countries with access to education, conversely numbers are increasing in under-developed countries with poor or non-existant education. Coincidence?

Knasher

Cian92 wrote: »

If you want to pass your local church next Sunday, you will most likely see that they are packed. People struggle to get parking.

Mass attendance at my local church suddenly went way up two years ago. Coincidentally it happened on the exact same week that they decided to reduce the number of masses per week.

Grayson

Midlife Crashes wrote: »

Because Christians are either too stupid to research the "truth" or have been brainwashed ?? Intelligent, well educated people are instantly atheists ???
A decline in Christianity is nothing new. It would be hard to find a century when the church and clergy have not faced challenges in ministry and concerns about decline. For example the decline that challenged Christianity during the last phase of imperial persecution in the early 4th century, when Christians lapsed or were martyred and churches and Christian books destroyed. The faith ultimately spread and flourished in response...
Things like this has happened a number of times throughout history but the church always comes back stronger while welcoming lapsed Christians back...

If the only example you can find is a comparison to a nascent church, you're grasping. But strangely, your analogy can work. The difference here is that athiesm and agnosticism is on the rise. It is in the same position that christianity was in the 4th century. And christianity is in the same position that the roman and greek pantheons were then.
Back then christianity was the new kid on the block, offering a new system of thinking and doing that was in direct contrast to the old way superstitious of thinking. Now christianity is the old superstitious way of thinking.

Micky Dolenz

My local parish Church is full most Saturday evenings and Sunday mornings.

A lot of it is down to the Priest, He does say a good mass and his chalice work is second to none.

krudler

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Numbers falling in developed countries with access to education, conversely numbers are increasing in under-developed countries with poor or non-existant education. Coincidence?

It's why Europe is "no longer a priority" for the Church (their words) and they've focused their attention on South America, poverty and religion go hand in hand.

Grayson

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Numbers falling in developed countries with access to education, conversely numbers are increasing in under-developed countries with poor or non-existant education. Coincidence?

Actually, on that survey I posted earlier the higher your level of education, the less likely you were to attend mass.
http://www.catholicbishops.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Practice-and-Belief-among-Catholics-in-the-Republic-of-Ireland.pdf

(P14)

Primary or equivalent 67.7%
Intermediate/Group/Junior Cert or equivalent 60.5%
None/Primary not completed 57.9%
PhD 50.0%
Leaving Cert or equivalent 48.6%
Postgraduate Higher Diploma/Masters 45.9%
Diploma or Certificate 45.0%
Primary Degree 34.6%

Except for masters and PhD's. Which is kinda weird. I'm wondering if that's because they are within a separate professional bracket where there might be a corrispondance with income? Not sure, but definitely food for thought.

(Iknow I'm a bit of a math nerd. But that survey is really interesting)

EDIT: I just read some more of the survey. 5.8% of catholics do not believe in life after death. And 10% believe in reincarnation.

rubadub

Grayson wrote: »

Except for masters and PhD's.

They're going just to pray they find a real job someday.