Ethnically Catholic...

Fromthetrees

Off the top of my head the last census put the number of Catholics at nearly 90%, considering there's about 5% Protestant and we've got plenty of Muslims and Hindus and other religions does that mean there's almost a clean sweep of essentially everyone considering themselves to be a Catholic.

Mass attendance is at an all time low, the Catholic Church has never had such little influence on society in the history of our state yet it's very rare someone won't have their child Christened or won't get married in a church or won't have their funeral in a church.

So, as a nation, are we actually atheist but ethnically Catholic?

Boombastic

Cultural Catholics

chughes

Lapsed....

Pudders

catholic agnostic rather than atheist I reckon

GLaDOS

Most people ignore Catholic ethics such as sex before marriage, contraception etc because it suits them.

ManMade

Fromthetrees wrote: »

So, as a nation, are we actually atheist but ethnically Catholic?

That's a cultural catholic.
There is no we.
It's down to each individual to decide what they are, not atheists or the Catholic Church.

donvito99

As Dara O'Briain would say, "I'm an atheist...but still a Catholic."



This applies to most of us on this rock in the Atlantic.

starlings

recovering catholic

hfallada

Its like the Irish Americans and Italian American in the USA. If you don't christen your child your not very Italian or Irish then. Even the Irish American same sex couple Baptise their child despite the fact they don't agree with the church.

But for a lot of people a baptism is a good excuse to get pissed

hullaballoo

Irish mammies making sure their good little boys go to heaven by making sure the RC box is ticked. If he says he doesn't believe in God, it's only a phase.

Fromthetrees

donvito99 wrote: »

As Dara O'Briain would say, "I'm an atheist...but still a Catholic."



This applies to most of us on this rock in the Atlantic.

That's what made me create the thread.

The thought that most people don't listen to the Catholic Church yet are Catholic in many of their behaviors.

Z.O.D!!!

A nation of À la carte Catholics.

ejmaztec

Fromthetrees wrote: »

Off the top of my head the last census put the number of Catholics at nearly 90%, considering there's about 5% Protestant and we've got plenty of Muslims and Hindus and other religions does that mean there's almost a clean sweep of essentially everyone considering themselves to be a Catholic.

Mass attendance is at an all time low, the Catholic Church has never had such little influence on society in the history of our state yet it's very rare someone won't have their child Christened or won't get married in a church or won't have their funeral in a church.

So, as a nation, are we actually atheist but ethnically Catholic?

No it's just an obsessive atheist minority thinking that anyone making themselves out to be a Catholic is a liar.

Fromthetrees

Boombastic wrote: »

Cultural Catholics

I don't know, we're culturally very similar to Britain and Western Europe and less so as you go along.

We're Catholics by ethnicity more than any other reason.

stoneill

Religion and ethnicity are separate.
One is independent of the other.

DEFTLEFTHAND

donvito99 wrote: »

As Dara O'Briain would say, "I'm an atheist...but still a Catholic."



This applies to most of us on this rock in the Atlantic.

Don't go to Mass, still hate Rangers. :pac:

shopaholic01

Baptism - needed to enrol in some schools
Marriage - want 'traditional' wedding
Funeral - custom. I know some people who would worry about what others would think.
Census - automatic response for many without any thought given

Of course, some people do all of the above because they are catholic.

There are a lot more practicing Catholics of all ages out there than the atheists and church bashers would like to admit. Of course nobody is a perfect catholic (sex before marriage, contraception etc) but there is no such thing.

Every sunday its hard to get parking at the church (various different ones) and there is always a good crowd, I think a while back churches looked a bit quieter but recently there is always plenty at mass again.

1ZRed

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Most people ignore Catholic ethics such as sex before marriage, contraception etc because it suits them.

Yet feel the need to reinforce the rules that don't even effect them like same-sex marriage.

the groutch

I'd imagine there would be alot of teenagers marked as Catholic in the last census either without them knowing or against their wishes.

Boombastic

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Baptism - needed to enrol in some schools
Marriage - want 'traditional' wedding
Funeral - custom. I know some people who would worry about what others would think.
Census - automatic response for many without any thought given

Of course, some people do all of the above because they are catholic.

Communion & Conformation - Sure all the other children are getting it

Grayson

Devon High Radiator wrote: »

There are a lot more practicing Catholics of all ages out there than the atheists and church bashers would like to admit. Of course nobody is a perfect catholic (sex before marriage, contraception etc) but there is no such thing.

Every sunday its hard to get parking at the church (various different ones) and there is always a good crowd, I think a while back churches looked a bit quieter but recently there is always plenty at mass again.

There's still a lot less than catholics would like there to be.

I think by the time the next generation comes around the numbers will be minimal. Children aren't going to grow up with the pressing catholic guilt that we did. They'll see their parents going to a church for weddings/funerals and christmas and will realise that it's not important.

Now if we could just get rid of catholic education in national schools, we'd be going somewhere.

ABajaninCork

Boombastic wrote: »

Communion & Conformation - Sure all the other children are getting it

I'd add church weddings and Christenings to that list too. A couple we know never go to Mass. But they wanted (and had) a church wedding at a pretty little church 'because it was the thing to do. Plenty of others on that list too.

To each his own, I guess even though I think it's hypocritical.

Galwayguy35

1ZRed wrote: »

Yet feel the need to reinforce the rules that don't even effect them like same-sex marriage.

In fairness the ball is in the governments court to bring in same sex marriage, the church will never agree to it but they are not alone, the sash wearers north of the border would be even more vocal in their opposition to it.

Grayson

Grayson wrote: »

There's still a lot less than catholics would like there to be.

I think by the time the next generation comes around the numbers will be minimal. Children aren't going to grow up with the pressing catholic guilt that we did. They'll see their parents going to a church for weddings/funerals and christmas and will realise that it's not important.

Now if we could just get rid of catholic education in national schools, we'd be going somewhere.

I'm mid 20's and go to mass as do a number of people I know, not everyone goes but not everyone has stopped going either as some people like to think.

I don't agree with getting rid of catholic education in national schools or secondary schools either.

Real Life

Im an atheist but i was raised a catholic. I cant stand the catholic church or any other church for that matter. I dont associate with them at all. i wouldnt get married and hopefully wont have a funeral in a church but i dont have much control over that.
If anyone asked me about my religion now id never say im catholic but i know a lot of people who are like me but dont feel as strongly about it and they probably would just say they're catholic.

o1s1n

Devon High Radiator wrote: »

Of course nobody is a perfect catholic (sex before marriage, contraception etc) but there is no such thing.
.

I can't see how you can 'be a catholic' if you're using contraception and having premarital sex?

If you don't want to play by the rules, why want to be part of the club? I don't get it.

Sugar Free

I'd agree with most points but a christened child is a big factor in getting them into most primary schools. That itself is a joke but I understand parents going against their will for the sake of their child's education.

Boombastic

o1s1n wrote: »

I can't see how you can 'be a catholic' if you're using contraception and having premarital sex?

If you don't want to play by the rules, why want to be part of the club? I don't get it.

Easy, you go to confession and get absolved of your sins

o1s1n

Boombastic wrote: »

Easy, you go to confession and get absolved of your sins

If you go to confession you are repenting, therefore you are no longer committing these sins (or at least are trying to stop).

Or were you being sarcastic and is my detector clearly broken? :pac:

Boombastic

o1s1n wrote: »

If you go to confession you are repenting, therefore you are no longer committing these sins (or at least are trying to stop).

Or were you being sarcastic and is my detector clearly broken? :pac:

You can try, but that doesn't mean you won't relapse


Your sarcasm detector is on the blink, it needs a service

krudler

ejmaztec wrote: »

No it's just an obsessive atheist minority thinking that anyone making themselves out to be a Catholic is a liar.

If you claim to be something and don't follow any of the rules requiring you to be what you claim to be then yeah, its a fair point.

awec

Ireland is a nation of picky choosy religious people. They are religious when it suits and they'll hide behind the "nobody is perfect" excuse when it doesn't.

Grayson

Devon High Radiator wrote: »

I don't agree with getting rid of catholic education in national schools or secondary schools either.

See that word in bold? They're national schools. Schools run by the government. Why should the government subsidize the teaching of one religion? It'd make sense in Saudi or Iran. But I can't see why the government should assist in the teaching of any particular religion.

And good for you that you go to mass, but a lot of people don't. A LOT. The numbers have dropped drastically. Take for example the number of irish priests ordained every year. There was a time about 50 years ago when there would be close to 100 a year in a bigger diocese like Meath/Kildare. Now the number can be counted on one hand. The catholic church is in steep decline and it's accelerating even faster now.

humbert

They should do like Germany and tax people depending on their religion. We'd become a nation of atheists over night.

Pushtrak

Pudders wrote: »

catholic agnostic rather than atheist I reckon

...

Midlife Crashes

I think the amount of "true" Christians is staying the same. Agreed there are some people just relying on their parents faith but Jesus teaches that everyone has to be "born again" meaning there has to come a time when they decide they want to live with Christ and give up sin. Many people don't do this. Those who do call themselves Christians seldom have a deep, personal relationship with Father.

Cian92

Grayson wrote: »

And good for you that you go to mass, but a lot of people don't. A LOT. The numbers have dropped drastically. Take for example the number of irish priests ordained every year. There was a time about 50 years ago when there would be close to 100 a year in a bigger diocese like Meath/Kildare. Now the number can be counted on one hand. The catholic church is in steep decline and it's accelerating even faster now.

If you want to pass your local church next Sunday, you will most likely see that they are packed. People struggle to get parking.

There aren't enough priests getting ordained, but that doesn't mean that we have less Roman Catholics. Unless something is done about it, it will become a real problem not having enough priests. In some areas it already has, with priests working doing even more masses than they traditionally would due to a lack of priests.

Grayson

o1s1n wrote: »

If you go to confession you are repenting, therefore you are no longer committing these sins (or at least are trying to stop).

Or were you being sarcastic and is my detector clearly broken? :pac:

I think it was sarcasm. But from a factual point of view, for a catholic to be absolved there are one of two conditions that have to be met.

They have to be sorry they comitted a sin because

a) they realise what they did was wrong
b) they're scared of going to hell.

Seriously, part b actually exists. IT's not necessary to be sorry for the actual sin. The same with doing a correct action or not doing a bad one. Whereas God wants to to do the right thing because it's the right thing (i.e. His will), it's enough to do it because you just don't want to piss him off.

--Kaiser--

Most 'Irish Catholics' are nothing of the sort

awec

humbert wrote: »

They should do like Germany and tax people depending on their religion. We'd become a nation of atheists over night.

The church itself should be taxed. I fail to see why it is exempt.

It is a business, it is making money from people. Tax it.

Pushtrak

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Most 'Irish Catholics' are nothing of the sort

Well, they are Irish.














:pac:

krudler

Cian92 wrote: »

If you want to pass your local church next Sunday, you will most likely see that they are packed. People struggle to get parking.

There aren't enough priests getting ordained, but that doesn't mean that we have less Roman Catholics. Unless something is done about it, it will become a real problem not having enough priests. In some areas it already has, with priests working doing even more masses than they traditionally would due to a lack of priests.

Easter Sunday and Christmas are probably the only days a year you'll see a full church in fairness

Fromthetrees

Midlife Crashes wrote: »

I think the amount of "true" Christians is staying the same. Agreed there are some people just relying on their parents faith but Jesus teaches that everyone has to be "born again" meaning there has to come a time when they decide they want to live with Christ and give up sin. Many people don't do this. Those who do call themselves Christians seldom have a deep, personal relationship with Father.

I think the amount of 'true' Christians is going to continuously diminish as time goes by as Irish children/people are only going to become more educated.

krudler

awec wrote: »

The church itself should be taxed. I fail to see why it is exempt.

It is a business, it is making money from people. Tax it.

That a million times

Knasher

Devon High Radiator wrote: »

I'm mid 20's and go to mass as do a number of people I know, not everyone goes but not everyone has stopped going either as some people like to think.

That doesn't really say much. I'd say about 80% of the people I know play computer games, but that is just indicative of the people I hang around with. It says more about me than it does about society. The same goes for you knowing other people who still attend.
It also wouldn't say much if your church happens to have a large attendance, that could just as easily be because the church you attend serves a large population.

What would be interesting is demographics. What is your estimate of the ratio of people in their 20s to people in their 60s?

ABajaninCork

Cian92 wrote: »

If you want to pass your local church next Sunday, you will most likely see that they are packed. People struggle to get parking.

There aren't enough priests getting ordained, but that doesn't mean that we have less Roman Catholics. Unless something is done about it, it will become a real problem not having enough priests. In some areas it already has, with priests working doing even more masses than they traditionally would due to a lack of priests.

Our PP recently passed away from a massive heart attack. He was only 49 years old. Although it's probably not the full story, I suspect the strain and pressure of work got to him. He was covering three churches. All are well-attended, albeit the majority of the people were older. Good many young people are attending Mass regularly too from what I see.

Three Seasons

ManMade wrote: »

That's a cultural catholic.
There is no we.
It's down to each individual to decide what they are, not atheists or the Catholic Church.

I'm Bengal tiger, I don't care what anyone says.

Grayson

Cian92 wrote: »

If you want to pass your local church next Sunday, you will most likely see that they are packed. People struggle to get parking.

There aren't enough priests getting ordained, but that doesn't mean that we have less Roman Catholics. Unless something is done about it, it will become a real problem not having enough priests. In some areas it already has, with priests working doing even more masses than they traditionally would due to a lack of priests.

The census results clearly state that we have less catholics. And that's still with a hundred thousand polish catholics in the country.

There are defoinitely less.

And even then, the number who attend mass regularly has declined.

http://www.catholicbishops.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Practice-and-Belief-among-Catholics-in-the-Republic-of-Ireland.pdf

42.1% of Catholics in the Republic of Ireland attend Mass once per week with a further 9% (downfrom 12.5% in ESS3) attending more often than that. About 21% attend at least once per month and a further 12% of Catholics in the Republic of Ireland attend only on special holy days. The
suggested generalised pattern of recent reports to a shift in monthly routine Mass attendance patterns is reinforced. The religion module of the 4th wave of the ISSP shows a similar pattern of change. In the chart below we can see how attendance at Mass amongst Catholics in the Republic is
structured.

Plus it shows that just 18% of catholics aged 18-24 and 23.4% of those aged 25-34 attend on a regular basis. But nearly 80% of them did when they were aged 12. However the figures for those from 55-64 show that nearly 70% of them attend mass on a regular basis. That makes sense. The kids aren't going, even though they are proclaimed catholics (Remember all these percentages are those that say they are catholic. So a protestant or a muslim wouldn't even make it into the survey) they really can't be bothered. But their parents still can.

What this means is that the church is filled with old people and isn't being replaced by younger people. Therefore it will die out.

Statistics, gotta love em.

Grayson

Midlife Crashes wrote: »

I think the amount of "true" Christians is staying the same. Agreed there are some people just relying on their parents faith but Jesus teaches that everyone has to be "born again" meaning there has to come a time when they decide they want to live with Christ and give up sin. Many people don't do this. Those who do call themselves Christians seldom have a deep, personal relationship with Father.

That's called confirmation. When someone confirms that they are catholic. Originally it was done by adults, a kind of second baptism. In a baptism you become a member of the church, but are inducted into it by your family. A confirmation is when an individual makes the decision themselves.

Which is why it's done at age 12

rubadub

Fromthetrees wrote: »

Off the top of my head the last census put the number of Catholics at nearly 90%,

I think the census needs to be a LOT more specific.

I saw an old thread on good friday where someone asked me if I was catholic. I asked how he would respond to both possible answers, as I was wary of this leading question. He refused to give the answers (as I expected). I said I would need a definition. His was
I would consider a Catholic to be someone who follows the teachings of the Catholic Church.
So I said certainly not. FFS I know of a young priest who would not be considered catholic by this guys definition.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/75-say-catholic-teachings-on-sex-are-not-relevant-1.500117

CATHOLIC CHURCH teachings on sexuality have “no relevance” for 75 per cent of Irish Catholics or for their families, according to a survey.
It also found that 87 per cent of Irish Catholics believe priests should be allowed marry, 77 per cent believe there should be women priests and 72 per cent believe older married men should be allowed become priests.

IF all these go against the teachings, then there is probably only a tiny %.

Some will continue to say they are to please relatives, saying they are not can seem like they are wanting to be confrontational or coaxing discussion, when most couldn't care less -so they tick the box since they got communion & confirmed. They probably figure they will get less hassle saying they are than saying they are not in public. Some might be worried about other repercussions, like "if I tick this can they find out and will my child be not be able to go to some schools".