Choose between Career and Mortgage

Morag

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/leo-varadkar-apologises-for-childcare-remarks-29161067.html

TRANSPORT Minister Leo Varadkar today apologised for remarks on insolvency rules suggesting that women would have to give up their jobs if they earned less than their child care expenses.

Millicent

Three Seasons wrote: »

It's not anti women or anti children. It's anti being an idiot taking out astronomical loans.

Ask yourself this, if you lend your friend money, say 10k, and down the line they say they can't pay it back how would you feel if they were still paying for a loss making luxury such as crèche fees and sky sports, iPhones etc. You'd tell them to cop on and pay up.

Childcare is hardly a "luxury" like an iPhone or Sky Sports, especially when you consider the knock-on socioeconomic effects that have been highlighted on this thread.

ted1

Millicent wrote: »

Childcare is hardly a "luxury" like an iPhone or Sky Sports, especially when you consider the knock-on socioeconomic effects that have been highlighted on this thread.

In the situation where your up the creek and declaring yourself as personally insolvent and your income is less than your child care then your carter is a hobby and either get a pay rise or give it up as its not financially viable. If your not declaring yourself as insolvent do what you want

ash23

ted1 wrote: »

In the situation where your up the creek and declaring yourself as personally insolvent and your income is less than your child care then your carter is a hobby and either get a pay rise or give it up as its not financially viable. If your not declaring yourself as insolvent do what you want

But how will giving up your career help you in terms of being or staying insolvent?
At least if a person has a job, it's likely that in time their childcare costs will decrease as the child(ren) get older.
Giving up that job is short sighted and it'd be worth it longer term to struggle through the first few years so that in time, the job would be worth having.

boneill82

these jackass' s running the country are so stupid.if one of the parents give up their job to stay at home to mind their children (I do myself) they are going to claim SW . government going to complain about more people signing on. social welfare are going to be putting pressure on them to do training courses internships and looking for work to get themselves back to work even though they were told to give up their job in the first place. and whilst your doing these courses and internships you have to pay someone to mind your kids

ted1

boneill82 wrote: »

these jackass' s running the country are so stupid.if one of the parents give up their job to stay at home to mind their children (I do myself) they are going to claim SW . government going to complain about more people signing on. social welfare are going to be putting pressure on them to do training courses internships and looking for work to get themselves back to work even though they were told to give up their job in the first place. and whilst your doing these courses and internships you have to pay someone to mind your kids

They will be means tested and mightn't get any.
My wife closed her shop when she was pregnant and they wouldn't even give her a cup of tea

lazygal

Out of interest, I was under the impression that if you gave up your job voluntarily, you're not entitled to a whole lot social welfare wise. Is that correct? I may or may not take a career break as my job allows me that option. But I thought if you simply resigned a position to take up another, ie working in the home, you wouldn't be entitled to job seekers' benefit/allowance? Can anyone clarify?

Das Kitty

lazygal wrote: »

Out of interest, I was under the impression that if you gave up your job voluntarily, you're not entitled to a whole lot social welfare wise. Is that correct? I may or may not take a career break as my job allows me that option. But I thought if you simply resigned a position to take up another, ie working in the home, you wouldn't be entitled to job seekers' benefit/allowance? Can anyone clarify?

No, you just have to wait longer to claim it. It used to be 9 weeks last time I was faced with the proposition.

ted1

Das Kitty wrote: »

No, you just have to wait longer to claim it. It used to be 9 weeks last time I was faced with the proposition.

Of you give up your job to mind the kids you are not available for work and technically aren't entitled

lazygal

ted1 wrote: »

Of you give up your job to mind the kids you are not available for work and technically aren't entitled

Well there's no 'technically' about it. If you don't want or can't work outside the home, you're not available for paid employment.

Honey-ec

ted1 wrote: »

They will be means tested and mightn't get any.
My wife closed her shop when she was pregnant and they wouldn't even give her a cup of tea

Was she self-employed? You're basically entitled to fcuk all when you're self-employed.

PAYE workers are treated entirely differently for the purposes of social welfare.

ash23

Honey-ec wrote: »

Was she self-employed? You're basically entitled to fcuk all when you're self-employed.

PAYE workers are treated entirely differently for the purposes of social welfare.

If you give up work to look after children you are not available for work. Therefore you can't claim jobseekers.
All you can claim in that instance is additional tax credits for the working part of the couple or maybe family income supplement if the working partners wage is under the limits.

ted1

Honey-ec wrote: »

Was she self-employed? You're basically entitled to fcuk all when you're self-employed.

PAYE workers are treated entirely differently for the purposes of social welfare.

Yes she had her own shoe boutique in town., but as Ash said you can't get job seekers if you are not available for work.

Honey-ec

ted1 wrote: »

Yes she had her own shoe boutique in town., but as Ash said you can't get job seekers if you are not available for work.

But isn't that the crux of this whole issue? That we're talking about people potentially being forced to give up their jobs, in which case, the argument could be "I am available for work, but the insolvency bill is telling me I can't."

clairefontaine

Honey-ec wrote: »

But isn't that the crux of this whole issue? That we're talking about people potentially being forced to give up their jobs, in which case, the argument could be "I am available for work, but the insolvency bill is telling me I can't."

You are really only available for work if you can afford childcare. The younger the kids are the more out of reach it is for many.

Das Kitty

ted1 wrote: »

Of you give up your job to mind the kids you are not available for work and technically aren't entitled

Well, yes. I was thinking more of giving up a low salary to look after the kids whilst looking for a higher salary to cover the childcare.

Neyite

ash23 wrote: »

If you give up work to look after children you are not available for work. Therefore you can't claim jobseekers.
All you can claim in that instance is additional tax credits for the working part of the couple or maybe family income supplement if the working partners wage is under the limits.

...and tax credits are not transferrable between a couple unless they are married.

Which if you are co-habiting, and being forced to resign under these new rules, they should allow your working partner to utilise your tax credits. But you know they never will. :rolleyes:

ash23

Neyite wrote: »

...and tax credits are not transferrable between a couple unless they are married.

Which if you are co-habiting, and being forced to resign under these new rules, they should allow your working partner to utilise your tax credits. But you know they never will. :rolleyes:

Yeah but if you're co-habiting and trying to claim welfare they'll view you as a married couple in terms of income and means........Hypocrisy at it's finest. Same as a married couple when it benefits them, not the same when it benefits you.

Morag

And how many people are at that insolvency tipping point due to the cuts in wages, the increase in taxes, the social charge, bin tax, household tax, increases in esb/gas.

Funny Feeling

I have recently had a baby and want to return to work but I cannot get over the cost of child care.....it feels impossible to me but I don't want to stay at home loosing my skills and becoming less employable and a non productive member of society. I am much better off on the dole than working which I think is ridiculous!!!!!

Does anyone know of any groups who are campaigning the government to reduce the cost of childcare???

Grants are a waist of time because the providers just push their prices up to reflect. I for one am willing to take to the streets and protest over this issue. I don't want my child to see his mum not working and not providing.....

ted1

Funny Feeling wrote: »

I have recently had a baby and want to return to work but I cannot get over the cost of child care.....it feels impossible to me but I don't want to stay at home loosing my skills and becoming less employable and a non productive member of society. I am much better off on the dole than working which I think is ridiculous!!!!!

Does anyone know of any groups who are campaigning the government to reduce the cost of childcare???

Grants are a waist of time because the providers just push their prices up to reflect. I for one am willing to take to the streets and protest over this issue. I don't want my child to see his mum not working and not providing.....

Would you consider an au pair? 100 euro a week + board + food includes child care and light house hold duties + 2 nights a week ?


I take great insult and so would many people here to you calling stay at home mums a non productive member of society.

They are very productive members of society.

Millicent

ted1 wrote: »

Would you consider an au pair? 100 euro a week + board + food includes child care and light house hold duties + 2 nights a week ?


I take great insult and so would many people here to you calling stay at home mums a non productive member of society.

They are very productive members of society.

There's no need to go twisting her words. It was very clear what she meant and it's reaching to imply that she was trying to insult SAHMs.

ETA: Just to point out, the "+ 2 nights a week" have to be included in the 25-35 hour working week of the au pair, in case anyone is considering it.

ted1

Depends on the agency.

RDM_83 again

ash23 wrote: »

Yeah but if you're co-habiting and trying to claim welfare they'll view you as a married couple in terms of income and means........Hypocrisy at it's finest. Same as a married couple when it benefits them, not the same when it benefits you.

Ok the reason for this is that.
Back in 80's there was restrictions on married woman claiming social welfare, this had to be changed, so then married couples then were treated as having as a unit with a dependent but cohabiting couples weren't, this meant that a married couple were able to take a case where they showed there was unconstitutionality against marriage/the family, so the goverment response was to change the acts relating to social welfare and consider cohabiting couples as a unit, unfortunately these acts were all social welfare ones and not revenue related so the tax credits didn't change for cohabiting couples.
Above may be wrong as its based on my looking into stuff after my WTF this can't be right moment a few years ago

BTW its
Job seekers benefit (non means tested) if you've got enough PRSI contributions

Job seekers allowance (means tested) if you've ran out of PRSI contributions

Three Seasons

ash23 wrote: »

But how will giving up your career help you in terms of being or staying insolvent?
At least if a person has a job, it's likely that in time their childcare costs will decrease as the child(ren) get older.
Giving up that job is short sighted and it'd be worth it longer term to struggle through the first few years so that in time, the job would be worth having.

That's for the banks to decide, when you can't pay your debts you lose the right to pick and choose the best way to handle your finances, you must face up to the consequences of your actions.

Three Seasons

Funny Feeling wrote: »

I have recently had a baby and want to return to work but I cannot get over the cost of child care.....it feels impossible to me but I don't want to stay at home loosing my skills and becoming less employable and a non productive member of society. I am much better off on the dole than working which I think is ridiculous!!!!!

Does anyone know of any groups who are campaigning the government to reduce the cost of childcare???

Grants are a waist of time because the providers just push their prices up to reflect. I for one am willing to take to the streets and protest over this issue. I don't want my child to see his mum not working and not providing.....

What's your proposed solution?

Would you be in favour of reducing the crèches required standards of care?

meeeeh

Three Seasons wrote: »

That's for the banks to decide, when you can't pay your debts you lose the right to pick and choose the best way to handle your finances, you must face up to the consequences of your actions.

If it were only the consequences of your actions and not also of those idiots in the banks. While I agree up to an extent and complaining about bin taxes doesn't help (who thinks that they shouldn't pay for their own rubbish?!) there are some short term solutions that don't make sense long term. Besides if it's a bigger write off the state will have to cover it but if you loose your job, the creche looses their revenue, less emplyees are needed.... the state could pay a lot higher price just to punish somebody who over stretched or whose earnings were significantly cut.

That said sky, holidays abroad, private schools etc are fair game.

anna.fun

Dolbert wrote: »

In many European countries, they have state-subsidised public creches, which are insanely cheap compared to here. If the government were truly interested in giving parents a choice then childcare wouldn't be so extortionate here.

In Germany you have to options
1.) stay at home (not great on your CV though) and get 150€ a month "Betreuungsgeld" for taking care of the kids yourself
2.) Kindergarden/creches.... You pay for childcare according to your annual income (if parents' gross income is below 17.500€ (p.a.), you pay 0€ for child care, this goes up to 770€ a month if parents are earning more than 125.000€ (p.a.) and the child is in the creche for more than 45h a week )
However, depending where you live, it can be difficult to get into a creche (especially for children under 2)...

It's getting more difficult there once the kids are in primary school though as they are home again at 1.00 pm. Obviously you can't leave a six year old on his/her own for several hours until you return from work.

clairefontaine

anna.fun wrote: »

In Germany you have to options
1.) stay at home (not great on your CV though) and get 150€ a month "Betreuungsgeld" for taking care of the kids yourself
2.) Kindergarden/creches.... You pay for childcare according to your annual income (if parents' gross income is below 17.500€ (p.a.), you pay 0€ for child care, this goes up to 770€ a month if parents are earning more than 125.000€ (p.a.) and the child is in the creche for more than 45h a week )
However, depending where you live, it can be difficult to get into a creche (especially for children under 2)...

It's getting more difficult there once the kids are in primary school though as they are home again at 1.00 pm. Obviously you can't leave a six year old on his/her own for several hours until you return from work.

Is this based on combined income of both parents?

For the kids in school do they have after school programmes? Summer camps?

anna.fun

clairefontaine wrote: »

Is this based on combined income of both parents?

For the kids in school do they have after school programmes? Summer camps?

yes, combined income

there are summer camps organised by clubs or organisation (expensive though). after school programmes are being set up in some places at the minute, the demand is a lot higher though...