Religion,superstition and spirituality

Geomy

Religion,superstition and spirituality.
Some people are this way by nature.

If they keep their beliefs to themselves and live a good humble life.
Are those people doing any harm ?

Society will never be without any kind of superstition or spiritual and religion.

Is there any kind of spiritual atheists ?

Beruthiel

Geomy wrote: »

If they keep their beliefs to themselves and live a good humble life.
Are those people doing any harm ?

No problem with that.
Where I do have a problem though is that there is a whole structure out there impacting on those of us who chose not to follow it.
Religion impacts on us in various ways in many areas.

Is there any kind of spiritual atheists ?

No. We are all soulless, empty bags of mostly water. Devoid of all feelings, sensitivities, ethics and morals.
Flee before you become infected!

Geomy

No. We are all soulless, empty bags of mostly water. Devoid of all feelings, sensitivities, ethics and morals.
Flee before you become infected![/Quote]

Some of the most sensitive,loving and caring people I know are atheists..

nozzferrahhtoo

Geomy wrote: »

If they keep their beliefs to themselves and live a good humble life. Are those people doing any harm ?

Nope. Alas that ideal does not match the reality even as close to as often as we might want.

Geomy wrote: »

Society will never be without any kind of superstition or spiritual and religion.

You can see the future can you? Lets maybe reserve our comments to things we know to be true now rather than what we imagine will be true in the future. The above likely will not happen any time soon... or easily.... but who knows what the future holds or could hold.

Geomy wrote: »

Is there any kind of spiritual atheists ?

Depends exactly what your definition of "Spiritual" is. Many atheists engage in many things they label as "Spiritual" for want of a better word. It is one of those over uses words the definition of which has become very labile and dilute. Read for example Sam Harris who engages in many things he would call "Spiritual" or "Transcendent"... and he heavily espouses many forms of meditation and eastern philosophies.... yet none of the things he describes require one to surrender rationality or subscribe to anything on the basis of insufficient or no evidence.

Geomy

You can see the future can you? Lets maybe reserve our comments to things we know to be true now rather than what we imagine will be true in the future. The above likely will not happen any time soon... or easily.... but who knows what the future holds or could hold.

No I can't see the future,I was talking about today,but I think you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.

Why ask me can I see the future ?

Do you think I think I'm capable of seeing the future,or are you just trying the good old " I'm more intelligent than you,come on let's see who can seem more rational here and well all have a laugh :P

Dades

Geomy wrote: »

Some of the most sensitive,loving and caring people I know are atheists..

I don't think you were meant take that entirely seriously...

Even meat sacks have feelings.

Kiwi in IE

Geomy wrote: »

Religion,superstition and spirituality.
Some people are this way by nature.

If they keep their beliefs to themselves and live a good humble life.
Are those people doing any harm ?

Society will never be without any kind of superstition or spiritual and religion.

Is there any kind of spiritual atheists ?

There is no problem at all with religion so long as;


It is kept in it's place, the church, and the home of the religious person.

Laws and publically funded social institutions are not influenced by the rules of a particular religion, therefore impacting on those who don't share their beliefs.


I never felt the slightest bit 'anti-religion' before moving to Ireland as it never impacted on me. It does now and I despise it, in particular Catholicism since that is the one impacting.

seamus

Geomy wrote: »

Is there any kind of spiritual atheists ?

The only thing atheists have in common is that they lack a belief in a god. That's it. There are no other lassos you can throw around atheists in order to try and define them as some form of congruous group.

Some atheists are spiritual. Hell, some religions are atheist.

Ask any question which begins with "Are there any atheists who _____" and the answer will be "yes". Unless that blank is "believe in god", in which case the answer is no.

nozzferrahhtoo

Geomy wrote: »

No I can't see the future,I was talking about today,but I think you get the gist of what I'm trying to say. Why ask me can I see the future ?

At the risk of turning this into an English Language lesson... your exact words were "Will never". We can talk about the way society is today, but we can not presume to know too much about what it will, will not, will never be in the future.

That was all my point was.

Geomy wrote: »

Do you think I think I'm capable of seeing the future,or are you just trying the good old " I'm more intelligent than you,come on let's see who can seem more rational here and well all have a laugh

I am not playing games or laughing here. I am merely pointing out that your claim about what society "will never" be or do is based on assumption as neither of us can know what it will or will not be or do in the future.

Doctor Strange

I don't care if people want to believe there's a pink unicorn flying around Jupiter. I have a problem when that Jovian unicorn starts impacting on people's lifestyles and freedoms.

Geomy

Well if someone has the will and strength to distance themselves from it all they don't get pucked by the unicorn.

Those yellow unicorns are worse than the pink ones.

Especially the males,they have wings too you know,and they release magic dust when they fart

Doctor Strange

Geomy wrote: »

Well if someone has the will and strength to distance themselves from it all they don't get pucked by the unicorn.

Those yellow unicorns are worse than the pink ones.

Especially the males,they have wings too you know,and they release magic dust when they fart

Ah, but sometimes people like to have their unicorn help dictate laws. And there are some worse than others. Like the people that believe their unicorn wants them to cover their women from head to toe and deny them liberties that are a basic human right.

Kiwi in IE

Unforgettable _ Fire wrote: »

Ah, but sometimes people like to have their unicorn help dictate laws. And there are some worse than others. Like the people that believe their unicorn wants them to cover their women from head to toe and deny them liberties that are a basic human right.

To be honest I think the ones who believe their unicorn wants women to be denied rights over their bodies, his followers to believe ridiculous 'magical' happenings, gays and all non unicorn followers to be denied equal rights, and all children, even the children of those who don't follow the unicorn, to be educated in unicorn ways, are hardly better!

Nolars

Great video on superstition only a week old seen it today.

Zombrex

Geomy wrote: »

Religion,superstition and spirituality.
Some people are this way by nature.

All people are this way by nature, it is how our brains work. Luckily we as a species have also developed the rational and critical thinking skills that allow us to counter these instincts. It is up to the individuals to use this of course.

Geomy wrote: »

If they keep their beliefs to themselves and live a good humble life.
Are those people doing any harm ?

It depends on what they believe in (I assume we are including hurting oneself when we saying doing harm).

Generally believing in false notions about the world leads to harm, just by varying degrees, whether you are blowing yourself up on a bus (extreme harm), or merely deciding that you don't need antibiotics because this special lucky rabbits foot is going to cure you.

maryrourke

I can't see how anyone can not believe in some sort of God or energy when there is so much evidence in and around us. I am new here.

Mary

Nolars

maryrourke wrote: »

I can't see how anyone can not believe in some sort of God or energy when there is so much evidence in and around us. I am new here.

Mary

Welcome Mary.

What evidence would this be now? I hope you can bring something to the table which hasn't been said a thousand times already.

maryrourke

Perhaps the reason why a lot don't believe in some kind of intelligent creator is because "it has been said a thousand times". Conditioning/brainwashing comes to mind. Not trying to be smart here. This is my first post and I have not read the previous posts--but I have an interest in this kinda thing. However it is late and I am off to bed--but if you want to reply I will answer in a couple of days.

Mary

Zombrex

maryrourke wrote: »

I can't see how anyone can not believe in some sort of God or energy when there is so much evidence in and around us. I am new here.

Mary

I think everyone believes in energy. Ever dropped something on your toe?

But there is a significant difference from believing in energy and believing in an intelligent emotional divine being that some how just exists and some how just wanted to create the entire universe just have us evolve on a small planet hanging off an average star orbiting in a rather mundane galaxy, one of trillions.

Kiwi in IE

maryrourke wrote: »

I can't see how anyone can not believe in some sort of God or energy when there is so much evidence in and around us. I am new here.

Mary

I'm agnostic athiest. I certainly don't believe in God as portrayed by Christians, Muslims, Jews or any other organised religion. I am 100% certain that these 'gods' do not exist, as described in books like the bible, koran etc.

I don't entirely discount the idea of a 'higher power'. I use the term 'higher power' because of the associations attached to the word 'god'. However if a higher power does exist, I do not assume to know, or pretend to know, what it is, what it's motives are etc. There is no way to know these things, or if it is even there in the first place. I see very little point in believing fairytales that have been invented due to the inability of some to cope with the lack of answers, and as a form of social control throughout the ages.

Geomy

Some people are conditioned by their critical intellect,more are conditioned by their so called intelligent peers...

Zombrex have you ever had a spiritual experience or something of an unexplainable nature happen to you,and not look for a rational explanation and see it as it is...

Zombrex

Geomy wrote: »

Some people are conditioned by their critical intellect,more are conditioned by their so called intelligent peers...

Zombrex have you ever had a spiritual experience or something of an unexplainable nature happen to you,and not look for a rational explanation and see it as it is...

I'm sorry I don't follow the question. How would I have an unexplained experience that had a rational explanation that I was supposed to ignore because it wasn't "as it is"?

If it is unexplained how do I know what it is in order to be able to see it "as it is"? And if I can see it as it is how is that not a rational explanation?

I are you sure you aren't asking
Have I ever had an experience where it was not immediately obvious what had happened and then guessed what the explanation was for the experience and then accepted that guess without evaluating to any rigorous degree?

If so, yes many times.

Sarky

Everyone has.

But everyone's brains are notorious for attaching stupid explanations to glitches in their perceptions. This is known, it has been researched a great deal, and it explains more or less everything about "spiritual" experiences. People have triggered a spiritual experience in others just by applying the right kinds of magnetic fields to the brain, and they have written papers about it. Zombrex has gone into some detail about that in the past.

There just isn't anywhere for magic left to hide. A beautiful sunset has no magic whatsoever to it. It can still be magical. Stop clinging to the idea that there has to be something more if you want to enjoy life.

ShooterSF

maryrourke wrote: »

Perhaps the reason why a lot don't believe in some kind of intelligent creator is because "it has been said a thousand times". Conditioning/brainwashing comes to mind. Not trying to be smart here. This is my first post and I have not read the previous posts--but I have an interest in this kinda thing. However it is late and I am off to bed--but if you want to reply I will answer in a couple of days.

Mary

Yep all those darn schools teaching children there is no such thing as god. Oh wait.

Magnetics

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I'm agnostic athiest. I certainly don't believe in God as portrayed by Christians, Muslims, Jews or any other organised religion. I am 100% certain that these 'gods' do not exist, as described in books like the bible, koran etc.

I don't entirely discount the idea of a 'higher power'. I use the term 'higher power' because of the associations attached to the word 'god'. However if a higher power does exist, I do not assume to know, or pretend to know, what it is, what it's motives are etc. There is no way to know these things, or if it is even there in the first place. I see very little point in believing fairytales that have been invented due to the inability of some to cope with the lack of answers, and as a form of social control throughout the ages.

Yep I think I would be in the same boat as yourself in your thought pattern Kiwi in IE. I would identify myself as an anti-theist agnostic

The fact of the matter is, deeply religious people don't have a fecking clue what is going on in this crazy universe we live in and in most cases they're completely brainwashed, but either do atheists! To completely discount any sort of 'higher power' or universal 'knowledge' is just as ignorant and presumptuous as blindly religious people in my opinion.

Consciousness is a really mind bogglingly strange phenomena and I think to discount it completely as pure 100% evolutionary chance is a bit close minded

The fact is that we will more than likely never, ever know what the hell is going on out there in the vast cosmos.The big bang theory is in my opinion very plausible and more that likely responsible for our existance, but the age old question, that I feel will never be answered scientifically, is where did the energy, mass, whatever you want to call it, originate from

nozzferrahhtoo

maryrourke wrote: »

I can't see how anyone can not believe in some sort of God or energy when there is so much evidence in and around us.

I think the issue many here have with that is quite simple. If I had 1 euro for every person like yourself who has said there is "much evidence" I would be a terribly rich man.

If I had another euro for every one of those people who then went on to fail to produce ANY of that evidence at all... I would be exactly... to the exact euro.... twice as rich.

We simply hear the "There is loads of evidence" claim too often by people who simply never provide any of it. Just like the kid on the school yard who talks about his girlfriend for weeks and weeks on end while resisting every single attempt by his mates to actually meet her.... it eventually dawns on us that this girlfriend does not actually exist.

Nor, seemingly, does your abundance of evidence you people are so happy to refer to day in and day out without actually introducing us to.

Cork Boy

I think this thread got Poe'd

Geomy

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

I think the issue many here have with that is quite simple. If I had 1 euro for every person like yourself who has said there is "much evidence" I would be a terribly rich man.

If I had another euro for every one of those people who then went on to fail to produce ANY of that evidence at all... I would be exactly... to the exact euro.... twice as rich.

We simply hear the "There is loads of evidence" claim too often by people who simply never provide any of it. Just like the kid on the school yard who talks about his girlfriend for weeks and weeks on end while resisting every single attempt by his mates to actually meet her.... it eventually dawns on us that this girlfriend does not actually exist.

Nor, seemingly, does your abundance of evidence you people are so happy to refer to day in and day out without actually introducing us to.

You see what might be evidence for Mary wouldn't be evident to you

I can see where Mary is coming from but you cant...

How can you be introduced to something you don't identify with or any interest in the subject :S

Dades

maryrourke wrote: »

but if you want to reply I will answer in a couple of days.

Not the best idea to drop a logical fail in A&A and not return for two days. :pac:

Kiwi in IE

Geomy wrote: »

You see what might be evidence for Mary wouldn't be evident to you

I can see where Mary is coming from but you cant...

How can you be introduced to something you don't identify with or any interest in the subject :S

'Evidence' that cannot be proven is not evidence! There is no evidence of god. I find it difficult that people can so easily take stories from the viewpoint of an author who lived several millennia ago, at face value. As has actually been pointed out on another thread in the Christian Forum, by Christians, on the subject of rape in the bible, interpretations of events and phenomena were something entirely different in biblical times. Think about the way thunderstorms, floods and other extreme weather patterns were interpreted before we had scientific explanations for what causes weather. Scientific developments have changed the way we understand the world, we used to think it was flat. Very few people (I hope) would believe the testimonies of witnesses for the prosecution of the Salem Witch Trials. Their 'evidence' is ridiculous to our understanding today. And that was only just over 300 years ago, not 2000+. But no, biblical authors were 100% correct in all their understanding and interpretations of events according to many Christians!

Moses and the burning bush for example. A burning bush that speaks is evidence of hallucination, not of god. Jesus did not die on the cross and 'rise from the dead', he was not dead in the first place. It is only very recently that people are no longer occasionally buried alive due to frequent inaccuracies in assessment of death. I am sure it still happens in some parts of the world. Mary was not a virgin, she was most likely frightened because she was pregnant when she wasn't supposed to be, so she made up a story. Damn good story too as it panned out for her.

I find it very difficult to understand how people who are highly intelligent can take these stories at face value and how political systems of developed countries can remain influenced by them.

nozzferrahhtoo

Geomy wrote: »

You see what might be evidence for Mary wouldn't be evident to you

Pointless speculation. Neither of us know what she thinks she has to offer. Speculating until it is presented is pointless.

There either is substantiation for her claim, or there is not. Simple as that. If there is then I am all ears.