Pope francis already spouting bullsh1t

Hoboo

the culture of deference wrote: »

Here is a quote from the new pope about the important value of mandatory celibacy for Catholic priests.


"For the moment, I am in favour of maintaining celibacy, with all its pros and cons, because we have 10 centuries of good experiences rather than failures."



However, he also said:


"It is a matter of discipline, not of faith. It can change."


In the same interview he praised the "zero tolerance" approach to clerical abuse in Ireland of his predecessor Pope Benedict XVI.


Pope Francis considered quitting his vocation after being "dazzled by a girl" at a wedding.

Im not getting your point. What difference would celibacy make to you or I or anyone for that matter? I hope youre not linking it to paedophilia ?

If a priest wishes to join the club, he knows the rules. He is giving his life to 'god'. He may sometimes find that hard, nature is nature. If he acts or feels he is about to act then he should leave the priesthood. Simplistic I know but thats the basics.

Dades

Hoboo wrote: »

Im not getting your point. What difference would celibacy make to you or I or anyone for that matter?

Well most people think it would be for the church's own good. It would certainly bump up the vocations. It would also lend them a bit more credence, as the notion of a bunch of celebate men telling people what (not) to do with their bits has always been laughable.

No, it might not affect non-believers materially but I'd prefer to see a church that allowed many of it's lonely workers a shot at a real life. It might eventually even cause the hierarchy to lighten up a bit.

Hoboo

Dades wrote: »

Well most people think it would be for the church's own good. It would certainly bump up the vocations. It would also lend them a bit more credence, as the notion of a bunch of celebate men telling people what (not) to do with their bits has always been laughable.

No, it might not affect non-believers materially but I'd prefer to see a church that allowed many of it's lonely workers a shot at a real life. It might eventually even cause the hierarchy to lighten up a bit.

Well, its not the men telling us, its the 'word of the lord' , theyre just passing it on, but I know what youre saying. Means changing the rules though, which for me is end game for the RCC. Its either the rules or not so for me it would reduce the credence, what little it has. When people look at it as simply a group of celibate men telling you what to do with your bits, I think theyre missing the real point. Sex outside marriage is more likely to have more difficult outcomes to deal with, break ups, etc. I completely take many marriages break up, but in the ideal perfect world, where people get married, stay together etc then it is a good idea. But completely idealistic I concede and therefore a non-worker. So maybe they need to concentrate more on the spiritual side rather than the every day living side, I dunno, Im rambling.

Second problem is who pays for their new wife and probably family? Cause I sure as hell aint

The vocation numbers.............yeah, maybe, I havent read any studies around it so cant really comment. Ill say this though. The church is in a panic as to why numbers are dropping................what I suggest is they examine why numbers were so high in the first place ? I think they need to return to life of servitude to the people, of poverty, of love, compassion and human decency, as Jesus allegedly displayed and mother theresa for example did display. Dont think gettin their rocks off is gonna make a difference

Dades

Actually the vocations are doing okay in the developing nations, though possibly for the same reason that we had so many in places like Ireland previously.

There was a lot of tradition involved. Two of my aunts became nuns (one left). A couple of generations ago one member of the family often got shafted fingered given the short straw and was expected to join the churchhood.

It was done for family status and also for economic reasons. One less child to put through school/college, pay a dowry for, or split the farm between.

So it was done a lot, but very often for the wrong reasons.

sethasaurus

lol, what did you all expect from such a cockamamie religion?
As with many regimes, you cut the head off and another, usually more hideous one grows back.

Hoboo

Dades wrote: »

Actually the vocations are doing okay in the developing nations, though possibly for the same reason that we had so many in places like Ireland previously

Very true. Control the education, control the mind. And when you've got nothing, it's very easy to turn to the heavens.

Edit: In my previous post, by numbers I was referring to 'the flock'. Theres a few hundred sheep in the field behind me, makes me smile when I see them running after each other for absolutely no reason. I used to be one of them:D

MrPudding

Kevcol wrote: »

Does a bear sh1t in the woods?

Does the Pope protect paedophile priests?

I am irritated that I can no longer say "is the pope a nazi?" when asked if I want a beer. :mad:

MrP

Brian Shanahan

MrPudding wrote: »

I am irritated that I can no longer say "is the pope a nazi?" when asked if I want a beer. :mad:

MrP

The new equivalent is "does the pope throw socialists out of helicopters?"

I know it ain't so catchy.

MrPudding

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

The new equivalent is "does the pope throw socialists out of helicopters?"

I know it ain't so catchy.

Yeah. Doesn't really roll off the tongue.

MrP

Prodigious

Why should you all care, being atheists?

Calibos

Methememb wrote: »

Why should you all care, being atheists?

Sweet mother of divine Jesus Christ!! (Said exasperatingly as opposed to reverently...)

Lucena

Methememb wrote: »

Why should you all care, being atheists?

Because unfortunately his words/actions/deeds have an impact on our lives.

Still religion in schools, still people feeling guilty about sex, still homosexuals being condemned. Until this nonsense stops, we'll continue to care.

Brian Shanahan

Methememb wrote: »

Why should you all care, being atheists?

Because, much as it is wrong, when the leader of the catholic church says something stupid or hateful it affects us too.

I know the world shouldn't be at the call of a believer in 2,500 year old fairy storys, but that's the way of it.

Nodin

Methememb wrote: »

Why should you all care, being atheists?

Why do you care that we care?

the culture of deference

Methememb wrote: »

Why should you all care, being atheists?

We care because the majority of the planet has been brainwashed into different pointless stupid belief systems that have held humanity back considerably.

In this country primary school children are wasting 5 hours of every school week on stupid pointless superstitious bullsh1t.

Cork Boy

the culture of deference wrote: »

We care because the majority of the planet has been brainwashed into different pointless stupid belief systems that have held humanity back considerably.

In this country primary school children are wasting 5 hours of every school week on stupid pointless superstitious bullsh1t.

I'm going to extrapolate on this just to get the point across.

5 hours per week
33 weeks per school year*

=> 165 hours (or 27 full school days) wasted per school year.

=> 216 full school days wasted in primary school (excluding extra hours allocated for first communion and confirmation).

1 Full school year* PLUS 10 full school weeks are wasted on stupid pointless superstitious bullsh1t throughout a primary "education".

*167 school days

Hotblack Desiato

Hoboo wrote: »

Means changing the rules though, which for me is end game for the RCC.

They've changed plenty of rules in recent decades alone (ignoring that mandating celibacy itself was a rule change)
Fish on Fridays
Limbo
Latin Mass
Catholics used to be forbidden from attending Protestant funerals etc.

None of them as 'big' an issue as celibacy, but there was a schism of sorts over the Latin mass.

Sex outside marriage is more likely to have more difficult outcomes to deal with, break ups, etc. I completely take many marriages break up, but in the ideal perfect world, where people get married, stay together etc then it is a good idea.

So every wedding night will have two virgins there with no clue what to do, or what their sexual tastes are, or whether their desires are compatible? Hardly a recipe for successful marriage in the eyes of the vast majority of people which is why most couples who get married already live together.

I think they need to return to life of servitude to the people, of poverty, of love, compassion and human decency, as Jesus allegedly displayed and mother theresa for example did display.

You must be new around here welcome. Have a looky here, if it's tl;dr then go to this year's posts at the end to cut to the chase.

the culture of deference

Cork Boy wrote: »

I'm going to extrapolate on this just to get the point across.

5 hours per week
33 weeks per school year*

=> 165 hours (or 27 full school days) wasted per school year.

=> 216 full school days wasted in primary school (excluding extra hours allocated for first communion and confirmation).

1 Full school year* PLUS 10 full school weeks are wasted on stupid pointless superstitious bullsh1t throughout a primary "education".

*167 school days

That's quite horrific.

Brian Shanahan

The current issue of the Private Eye showed me something very disturbing:



Is there no organisation too evil for the Dirty Digger, first TB's Nu Labor, then Call me Dave's Nasty (but pretending not to be) Party, now the catholic church!

robp

Lucena wrote: »

Because unfortunately his words/actions/deeds have an impact on our lives.

Still religion in schools, still people feeling guilty about sex, still homosexuals being condemned. Until this nonsense stops, we'll continue to care.

Isn't it dreadful that people receive the education that they desire. Democracy blows doesn't it?

Cork Boy wrote: »

I'm going to extrapolate on this just to get the point across.

5 hours per week
33 weeks per school year*

=> 165 hours (or 27 full school days) wasted per school year.

=> 216 full school days wasted in primary school (excluding extra hours allocated for first communion and confirmation).

1 Full school year* PLUS 10 full school weeks are wasted on stupid pointless superstitious bullsh1t throughout a primary "education".

*167 school days

The curriculum is actually two and a half-hours per a week in primary schools. People often claim 2.5 hrs is spent on religion whilst only 1 on science but that overlooks the time spent on maths, which is far more than religion. Maths is not only the most fundamental science but it is much more applicable then the highly applied topics in primary school science.

Lucena

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

The current issue of the Private Eye showed me something very disturbing:



Is there no organisation too evil for the Dirty Digger, first TB's Nu Labor, then Call me Dave's Nasty (but pretending not to be) Party, now the catholic church!

I thought you were going to say Alex Ferguson was double-jobbing (guy in red on the extreme right)

Corkfeen

Sky news are the oddest channel. No real news to report on, so they go live to the pope's easter celebrations.

Lucena

robp wrote: »

Democracy blows doesn't it?

People voted for religion in schools? When did that happen?

Pawwed Rig

robp wrote: »

Isn't it dreadful that people receive the education that they desire. Democracy blows doesn't it?

because 4 year olds can make informed decisions about their life:rolleyes:

Nodin

robp wrote: »

Isn't it dreadful that people receive the education that they desire. Democracy blows doesn't it?
....

There was a vote?

Hotblack Desiato

robp wrote: »

Isn't it dreadful that people receive the education that they desire.

My kids aren't.
Even if we accept that the majority of Irish people actively want catholic brainwashing for their kids (And I'd vigorously challenge that), democracy does not give the majority the right to impose their views and values upon everyone.

robp

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

because 4 year olds can make informed decisions about their life:rolleyes:

It is the obligation and responsibility of the parent. the fallacy of your argument is that non-religious schooling is neutral whilst it is actually a worldview.

Nodin wrote: »

There was a vote?

Parents vote as consumers, they pick their preference.

ninja900 wrote: »

My kids aren't.
Even if we accept that the majority of Irish people actively want catholic brainwashing for their kids (And I'd vigorously challenge that), democracy does not give the majority the right to impose their views and values upon everyone.

If there was a referendum tomorrow proposing that the various types of public school patronage are replaced by just one secular state system there would be landslide defeat.

A 2008 survey of parents found only 11% favoured schools with no religion. A different 2008 survey found that 63.4% wish that the church continue to have prominent role in provision of Primary schooling. A 2010 survey of Educate Together parents found only 18% thought it was important or very important that religion was not part of the classroom curriculum and Educate Together parents are typically extremely self selective towards secularism. All in the report on school patronage.

Don't get me wrong, there is an oversupply of Catholic schools but there is huge support for a multi system approach. The likes of Senator Ivana Bacik may insist on a one size fits all secular system but there is a good reason she has lost three popular elections and won none.

Pawwed Rig

robp wrote: »

It is the obligation and responsibility of the parent. the fallacy of your argument is that non-religious schooling is neutral whilst it is actually a worldview.

Parents vote as consumers, they pick their preference.

Oh right. that explains that then. I was under the (obviously mistaken) belief that in large parts of the country the only school available are run by the church. Obviously you know of the multitude of non demonibational schools in rural and urban areas. Could you post a link for my reference?

robp

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Oh right. that explains that then. I was under the (obviously mistaken) belief that in large parts of the country the only school available are run by the church. Obviously you know of the multitude of non demonibational schools in rural and urban areas. Could you post a link for my reference?

Most people live in urban areas where there is increasingly more options. As I said there is a local oversupply of Catholic schools but this will be corrected over time. Until that point children can obtain schooling in catholic schools without receiving religious formation. The constitution asserts this principle and I have never heard of evidence to the contrary. I have heard all sorts of drivel to counter this but nothing remotely compelling (my favourite example: "when I was in school I opted out I was forced to participate the nativity plays", I guess the individual never realised Educate Together schools teach this cultural religion just like catholic schools).

Lets have a glance at the wonderful diversity of patron bodies that would be lost under a one size fits all system.

Catholic, Church of Ireland, Presbyterian, Methodist, Jewish, Islamic, Quaker, John Scottus Educational Trust Ld, Lifeways Ireland Ltd, An Foras Pátrúnachta na Scoileanna Lán-Ghaeilge Teo, Educate Together Ltd (national patron body), Schools in Educate Together network, Vocational Education Committees.

Diversity isn't a bad thing and it isn't adding cost to the exchequer as primary schools are typically small institutions of 150-200 children internationally.

token101

CerebralCortex wrote: »

People are truly irrational. I'm so tired of the clowns on Newstalk etc. ask "Will he change anything?" No! He can't the doctrine is set, either that or become a protestant Church. For example if they back peddle on celibacy it's like admitting God has changed his mind and his values, which opens, correction, should open a whole can of worms philosophically speaking (it has already for those who are atheists). A man who has spent his life celibate is hardly going to turn around at the end of his life and say "Ooops that was wrong" clergy aren't able for that kind of honest rationality, if they were they probably wouldn't be priests. If people want change they should look to why they believe what the believe, leave the Church or join another. Stop expecting the Church to change itself to suit your needs so you can label yourself Catholic.

Don't even get me started on the craziness that is a homosexual Catholic.

Gay hating, celibacy enforcing. Seems God was a bit an of an asshole? Might be no harm if he modernised? Maybe he could just appear in Portugal or Knock or in a bush with some more tolerant ideas?