A question for atheists??

the culture of deference

Sycopat wrote: »

Excellent! I'm getting married this year so I've been struggling with quite a few of these questions. My parents are kind of religious. My grandparents more so. Her parents are very religious. Neither of us are religious but there's a lot of pressure on us to do the church wedding so we're going to do that.

Who cares about the others.

You are your partner are getting married, would you let them dictate how you raise your children, where your honeymoon is. So what if you offend them, they will get over it

calabi yau wrote: »

Maybe you are right, they should not be baptised until they make their own minds up, but ramming your beliefs down your children's throats if you are atheist is just as bad as ramming religion down their throats. Kids are people in their own rights, and eventually you will release that arrow from your bow.

The state in collusion with rcc is ramming religion down kids throats.

banbhaaifric wrote: »

I missed the deadline for count me out so at the moment I'm trying to figure out how to get excommunicated!

The influence of religion on our education system is a disgrace.

Ex comm is no use, you are still a member.

I do want the rcc kicked out.

Here is a test for the catholics

Question One : Cardinals are the only members of the Catholic Church permitted to . . .
A : say Mass in one of the four Major Basilicas of Rome
B : wear red while saying Mass
C : celebrate sacraments other than the Mass during the Easter Triduum
D : call the pope by his personal name, not the name he took on becoming pope.
E : None of the above
Question Two : If all we had was Sacred Scripture, which names could we confidently apply the title "Archangel" to?
A : Michael, Raphael, Gabriel
B : Gabriel, Michael, Metatron
C : Raphael, Michael, Uriel
D : Uriel, Azrael, Gabriel
E : None of the above
Question Three : A Mass is invalid . . .
A : If fewer than half the people present hold hands during the Our Father.
B : If the priest omits the opening sign of the cross and the Nicene Creed.
C : If the priest celebrates Mass while he is in the state of mortal sin.
D : If the priest ad libs any part of the canon.
E : None of the above
Question Four : Martin Luther;
A : maintained he threw his excrement at the Devil
B : assaulted his parents at an early age
C : preached that Mary was not perpetually virgin
D : wrote his 96 Thesis in Latin
E : None of the above
Question Five : Early Christians used what symbol to identify themselves, and why?
A : A loaf of bread, because they used bread in the Mass
B : Nails, because Jesus was crucified using them
C : A fish, because the letters of the word "fish" in Greek stood for the name and titles of Jesus
D : A cluster of grapes, because they were the grapes made into the wine of the New Kingdom
E : None of the above

Akrasia

I have 2 kids, neither of which have been baptised, 3rd is on the way, won't be baptised either.

I got married last month, officially, in the registry office (because the Irish state are arseholes and the registrars don't perform civil ceremonies on weekends) with just Me, my wife and two witnesses, but we then had a full service on the Saturday at a hotel where I asked my Uncle to officiate on a ceremony that I wrote myself, with music and readings that we like and with a much more personal vibe than any church wedding I have ever been to.
Most of our guests had never been to a civil ceremony before and we got a number of positive comments afterwards saying that it was the nicest wedding they had ever been to.

When I die, I don't really care what happens to my body, It doesn't affect me.

I don't like religious funerals because the ceremony is 99% about the church and 1% about the person who has died.

If I have to bury my wife or children (fecking hope I won't ever have to)
I would hope that my family won't try to pressure me into having a church funeral. I would far prefer a secular one, and then on the anniversary, instead of the traditional (boring as hell) anniversary mass, if people could meet up somewhere nice and just mark the occasion and remember the person who we have all lost.

matrim

the culture of deference wrote: »

Who cares about the others.

You are your partner are getting married, would you let them dictate how you raise your children, where your honeymoon is. So what if you offend them, they will get over it



The state in collusion with rcc is ramming religion down kids throats.



Ex comm is no use, you are still a member.

I do want the rcc kicked out.

Here is a test for the catholics

Question One : Cardinals are the only members of the Catholic Church permitted to . . .
A : say Mass in one of the four Major Basilicas of Rome
B : wear red while saying Mass
C : celebrate sacraments other than the Mass during the Easter Triduum
D : call the pope by his personal name, not the name he took on becoming pope.
E : None of the above
Question Two : If all we had was Sacred Scripture, which names could we confidently apply the title "Archangel" to?
A : Michael, Raphael, Gabriel
B : Gabriel, Michael, Metatron
C : Raphael, Michael, Uriel
D : Uriel, Azrael, Gabriel
E : None of the above
Question Three : A Mass is invalid . . .
A : If fewer than half the people present hold hands during the Our Father.
B : If the priest omits the opening sign of the cross and the Nicene Creed.
C : If the priest celebrates Mass while he is in the state of mortal sin.
D : If the priest ad libs any part of the canon.
E : None of the above
Question Four : Martin Luther;
A : maintained he threw his excrement at the Devil
B : assaulted his parents at an early age
C : preached that Mary was not perpetually virgin
D : wrote his 96 Thesis in Latin
E : None of the above
Question Five : Early Christians used what symbol to identify themselves, and why?
A : A loaf of bread, because they used bread in the Mass
B : Nails, because Jesus was crucified using them
C : A fish, because the letters of the word "fish" in Greek stood for the name and titles of Jesus
D : A cluster of grapes, because they were the grapes made into the wine of the New Kingdom
E : None of the above

Not a catholic but bored

1) a
2) a - Going by what I learned in Supernatural
3) b
4) c
5) c

the culture of deference

Akrasia wrote: »

I don't like religious funerals because the ceremony is 99% about the church and 1% about the person who has died.

+1000

The last funeral I was at (2008 man was atheist) was horrible, priest got the name wrong, maybe said 2 sentences about the person, but god was mixed in with that too.

Vojera

I'd consider myself more agnostic than atheist, but here I go:

woodoo wrote: »

How many of you claim to be an atheist but will still be seen walking down the isle of their local church to get married?

I'm gay, so my girlfriend and I will have a civil partnership (and civil marriage when it comes in). No choice, but we wouldn't want a Church wedding anyway.

woodoo wrote: »

How many will be seen carrying their child into the church to get baptised

Not a chance would I baptise my child into an organisation that tells him or her that her parents are abominations and are going to hell.

If, later in life, my (currently hypothetical) kids choose their own religion, find one that really resonates with them, and join it, that's okay with me. If it's something they've considered themselves, thought about for themselves, chosen for themselves, I'm happy with that. I am not happy with the indoctrination of children who can't decide for themselves.

woodoo wrote: »

How many of you when you die will be carried into the church in a coffin for your own funeral mass and then be brought to the cemetery. Where a priest will oversee you lowered into the ground?

If I was in charge of my own funeral then I would be cremated (with optional non-religious ceremony, or maybe just friends saying a few words). After that, I can be scattered or flushed down the toilet for all I care. I'll be dead. And even if there's an afterlife and I'm somehow watching all of this going on, I'll be on a plane of existence so alien to what I know that I'm sure I won't care what happens to my dead body.
However, my mother is fairly religious (in fact, that whole side of the family is), and if having a Catholic ceremony would bring her comfort, then I'm all for it. As has been said before, funerals are for the living, not the dead.
That said, my girlfriend will have the last word. If she doesn't want a religious ceremony, there won't be one.

woodoo wrote: »

That is gross hypocrisy. How many of you have made efforts to leave the Church and let your local priest know you are now an atheist and do not want any involvement whatsoever with the church, including all the services offered.

There is currently no way to officially leave the RCC anymore. It can't be done.

As for contacting my local priest, I don't even know where my most local chapel is. I've never been there, so why would I make a concerted effort to seek out someone I've never seen before just so I can tell them I won't be attending?

Now, the parish priest in my hometown knows who I am, but since I'm only back there a handful of times a year, why would I tell him I want to leave the RCC? What is he going to do about it?

Where applicable (e.g. hospitals, census), I mark myself as "no religion".

I do go to mass the odd time (funerals, weddings, anniversaries, and at Christmas because my mum likes me to), but I don't receive communion. I think that would be disrespectful. There's no harm in me just sitting there, though.

the culture of deference

Vojera wrote: »

I'm gay, so my girlfriend and I will have a civil partnership (and civil marriage when it comes in). No choice, but we wouldn't want a Church wedding anyway.

Here is what the church thinks of you

“Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that ‘homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.’ They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.”

Vojera

the culture of deference wrote: »

Here is what the church thinks of you

“Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that ‘homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.’ They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.”

Yep. And you know I wouldn't care if they'd keep that opinion to their own little club and left non-religious legal matters alone.

Bannasidhe

Vojera wrote: »

Yep. And you know I wouldn't care if they'd keep that opinion to their own little club and left non-religious legal matters alone.

Innit.

Funny how they can't seem to grasp that simple fact.

the culture of deference

the culture of deference wrote: »

Here is what the church thinks of you

“Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that ‘homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.’ They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.”

Vojera wrote: »

Yep. And you know I wouldn't care if they'd keep that opinion to their own little club and left non-religious legal matters alone.

It is just such a despicable paragraph.

This is another reason (in the very long list) why I have no tolerance for religion and the religious in general.
Everyone who marked themselves down as rcc in the census must believe this to think they are catholic.

Sycopat

the culture of deference wrote: »

Who cares about the others.

I thought I made it pretty clear that I do. In the same post you're quoting in fact.

You are your partner are getting married, would you let them dictate how you raise your children, where your honeymoon is. So what if you offend them, they will get over it

Dictate? Interesting, but although there is pressure, no one has dictated anything. Probably because such an attempt would fail, and worse, rile me against it. My family are more tactful than that. They request, which they are free to do, and I acquiesce.

the culture of deference

Sycopat wrote: »

I thought I made it pretty clear that I do. In the same post you're quoting in fact.



Dictate? Interesting, but although there is pressure, no one has dictated anything. Probably because such an attempt would fail, and worse, rile me against it. My family are more tactful than that. They request, which they are free to do, and I acquiesce.

I should have said who cares what the others think

you said

Neither of us are religious but there's a lot of pressure on us to do the church wedding so we're going to do that.

Now the logical follow on from this is if they are pressuring you on how you want to marry, what's it gonna be like if you have kids.

Nip them in the bud now.

Hotblack Desiato

They request and you acquiesce? That's not how adults treat other adults.

swampgas

Thing is, sycopat, acquiescing too much doesn't do you any favours. You might actually find that standing your ground on your wedding and how you want to bring up your kids will actually gain you some respect from your family, rather than lose it.

One way or the other, you are setting a very important precedent - acquiesce now, acquiesce forever.

Sycopat

swampgas wrote: »

Thing is, sycopat, acquiescing too much doesn't do you any favours. You might actually find that standing your ground on your wedding and how you want to bring up your kids will actually gain you some respect from your family, rather than lose it.

One way or the other, you are setting a very important precedent - acquiesce now, acquiesce forever.

You're right of course, but I don't acquiesce on everything, nor have I even in this instance. Having a blessing is something that's important to them and not to me, as such it's a fairly easy favour for me to grant, as long as better half is also okay with it. (I think the clincher there was the church being an aesthetically nicer venue than the hotels conference room)

As to precedent, you'd have a point, but the people I'm doing this for are mainly my grandparents. I don't want to think about it too much so lets leave this thread of the discussion at their influence on my children (if any) will be a non-issue. The rest I can deal with handily enough.

ninja900 wrote: »

They request and you acquiesce? That's not how adults treat other adults.

Apparently not, going by your example adults make snide remarks on the internet about the maturity of others.:rolleyes:

I would have thought it pretty obvious I was referring to this instance rather than a general case, but in case it isn't I don't acquiesce to every request made of me. I'm well known to be an angry argumentative f*ck. My acquiescence is a rare and generous gift.

the culture of deference wrote: »

I should have said who cares what the others think

you said

Neither of us are religious but there's a lot of pressure on us to do the church wedding so we're going to do that.

Now the logical follow on from this is if they are pressuring you on how you want to marry, what's it gonna be like if you have kids.

Nip them in the bud now.

Logical from your point of view, not from mine, but then I am in possession of greater knowledge of this specific situation.
Also, as I mentioned to swampgas I see future meddling as a non-issue.

Dani Pacheco

All I can help thinking is, why does Woodoo really care other than a strong sense bitterness?
Bitter over what ? I don't know. It just appears as though he has some sort of chip on his shoulder. Most of these ceremonies(especially weddings and funerals) are now no longer primarily a religious thing, but a social/cultural thing which is seen as the norm to do.

Kiwi in IE

I gave in on the Christening thing and have regretted it every moment since. I have since told my very catholic, but very lovely mother in law that little kiwi is not Catholic, will not be brought up religious, is not doing further catholic rituals and is not going to a catholic school. I'm sure it was hard for her because Catholicism is all she has ever known, but it hasn't affected our relationship at all and I'm sure I will have more respect in the long run for not giving in and going along with things I don't believe. She is very important to me, but I won't sacrifice my beliefs (or my child) to make those who don't agree with me feel better.

Zamboni

Married in non-religious ceremony, offspring not baptised.
Will attend friend and families religious ceremonies as that is what a respectful person would do.

In the context of accessing education, the baptism thing is not black and white.
If there is a religious OH involved, if an MD school location is genuinely too far or if there is a financial constraint in accessing MD school or even place, then that is absolutely fair enough. Apart from that, I would call it hypocrisy.

Hotblack Desiato

Even unbaptised children have a legal right to an education. It's a bit like what happens when a few companies turn you down for motor insurance, it's a legal requirement to have it so eventually one of them will be forced to accept you...

Tasden

ninja900 wrote: »

Even unbaptised children have a legal right to an education. It's a bit like what happens when a few companies turn you down for motor insurance, it's a legal requirement to have it so eventually one of them will be forced to accept you...

They may have to accept a non baptized child but they don't have to accommodate (for want of a better word) the child.

Sarky

I'm fairly confident that the only people taking Sycopat's wedding seriously as a religious thing are going to be standing behind the alter.

Bannasidhe

Sarky wrote: »

I'm fairly confident that the only people taking Sycopat's wedding seriously as a religious thing are going to be standing behind the alter.

Not even sure about them tbh.

Sarky

Good point. The last wedding I attended was done by a priest who actually WAS cool and down with the kids. I'd have bought him a drink if he'd been at the afters party...

I will be getting married in a catholic church.

I am not bothered by the ceremony - it is the person I am marrying that is important to me.

Ghost Buster

Deleted User wrote: »

I will be getting married in a catholic church.

I am not bothered by the ceremony - it is the person I am marrying that is important to me.

Are you important to your soon to be married partner? Perhaps they will pander to you...

Ghost Buster

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Are you important to your soon to be married partner? Perhaps they will pander to you...

Pander has negative connotations. I'm not bothered by it as I said.

Azure_sky

woodoo wrote: »

How many of you claim to be an atheist but will still be seen walking down the isle of their local church to get married?

I'm transsexual so I'm not allowed to get married due Catholic social teaching interfering with the state's laws.

endacl

woodoo wrote: »

How many of you claim to be an atheist but will still be seen walking down the isle of their local church to get married?

Sorry. Just noticed this. If the church has an isle, I definitely want to visit! Do you paddle out or is there a ferry? Is it in the middle of the holy sea? How big is this feckin' church?!?

:P

Lingua Franca

woodoo wrote: »

How many of you claim to be an atheist but will still be seen walking down the isle of their local church to get married? How many will be seen carrying their child into the church to get baptised and most tellingly of all. How many of you when you die will be carried into the church in a coffin for your own funeral mass and then be brought to the cemetery. Where a priest will oversee you lowered into the ground?

Married in the registry office, didn't baptise my children, took pains to send them to secular schools, have already planned a humanist funeral. Resisted all attempts by family and friends to cajole me into conforming. It wasn't difficult at all since they're all so wishy washy in their beliefs and can't hold a coherent argument in favour of their deeply held convictions.

That is gross hypocrisy.

You couldn't be more wrong, or offensive, if you tried.

Sofiztikated

Not everyone comes from a RCC background.

We had a registry office job, followed by a close friend "officiating" at a ceremony afterwards. First time most, if not all, our guests had been at a non church wedding. Even the most religious among them enjoyed it. If anything, it has shown some people a church wedding isn't necessary.

Funerals? I attend church funerals of friends, family and the like. Out of a mark of respect to the person that died, or out of respect for the person left behind. My wife knows that for my funeral I want cremation, in a non religious ceremony. She wants a religious ceremony, she's a lapsed catholic. Her choice, and I'll honour it.

Baptism. No kids at the moment, so its very easy to say "no way" however I may give on depending upon schools. There's no ET schools near here. I may send them across the border to NI, but I haven't fully investigated that option.

I haven't been to my previous church to inform of my lack of belief, why would i? I don't go to the pub to tell the barman I'm not drinking. I don't even discuss it with family, my belief or lack of is a personal choice.

Dades

Before people jump in quoting the first post, the OP has clarified that this question was originally meant for a more general audience.

woodoo wrote: »

Dades wrote: »

Lastly, you'd do well to not barge in shouting things like "Hypocrisy!" without knowing the mob you're addressing. Starts you off on the wrong foot tbh.

I accept that. This thread was originally started in After Hours and was to be a bit more of a lively to and fro typical AH thread. When it was closed i just copied and pasted into this forum. I should probably have changed the post a bit then.

I am genuinely interested in burial options and ceremonies in particular for those that have left the church.