A question for atheists??

woodoo

We see a fair bit of abuse directed towards Catholics and religious people here on boards. But how many of you atheists have truly divorced yourselves from religion and the church.

How many of you claim to be an atheist but will still be seen walking down the isle of their local church to get married? How many will be seen carrying their child into the church to get baptised and most tellingly of all. How many of you when you die will be carried into the church in a coffin for your own funeral mass and then be brought to the cemetery. Where a priest will oversee you lowered into the ground?

That is gross hypocrisy. How many of you have made efforts to leave the Church and let your local priest know you are now an atheist and do not want any involvement whatsoever with the church, including all the services offered.

For those that have contacted your local priest/church and the archbishop and the Vatican how will you be buried, married etc?

Gordon

Not me.

woodoo

What are the burial options for atheists and agnostics in rural ireland.

freyners

woodoo wrote: »

We see a fair bit of abuse directed towards Catholics and religious people here on boards. But how many of you atheists have truly divorced yourselves from religion and the church.

How many of you claim to be an atheist but will still be seen walking down the isle of their local church to get married? How many will be seen carrying their child into the church to get baptised and most tellingly of all. How many of you when you die will be carried into the church in a coffin for your own funeral mass and then be brought to the cemetery. Where a priest will oversee you lowered into the ground?

That is gross hypocrisy. How many of you have made efforts to leave the Church and let your local priest know you are now an atheist and do not want any involvement whatsoever with the church, including all the services offered.

For those that have contacted your local priest/church and the archbishop and the Vatican how will you be buried, married etc?

Considering 90%+ of the schools in Ireland are controlled by the Catholic Church its not a hypocrisy to have the child baptised as can be the difference between getting into a good school or not. Parents have to swallow their pride in order to ensure their child receives the best education possible.

Tasden

My child isn't baptised. If I ever do get married it will be a civil ceremony. My family know that I want a humanist burial. And as for telling the local priest, I didn't go to Santa's grotto to tell the man in the costume that I no longer believe in Santa.

Bannasidhe

woodoo wrote: »

What are the burial options for atheists and agnostics in rural ireland.

In the ground. In a grave.

Or are you under the illusion that every single cemetery in Ireland is owned by the RCC?

Bannasidhe

Gordon wrote: »

Not me.

Me neither.

I only go to religious places of worship when a religious person has died and they are having a religious funeral - the religion in question is not necessarily Roman Catholic.

woodoo

Bannasidhe wrote: »

In the ground. In a grave.

Or are you under the illusion that every single cemetery in Ireland is owned by the RCC?

I don't know, its something you never really see discussed. I would like some info on it as someone living in a fairly rural part of ireland.

mewso

You can't leave the Catholic church for starters so that allows them to include me in their numbers regardless of my wishes and so maintain an influence that justifies their control over the majority of schools in this country. So if I get married and my better half wants a church wedding then fine or if they are content to go to a registry office then just as fine. Then if we have kids and the Catholic church still controls the nearest schools then I will happily have them baptised especially since I am still officially a member. When I die bury me in a field or give me to medical science for all I care. Now what was that about hypocrisy? Using contraception while claiming to be a Catholic or something else?

coffee_cake

Let's all make things up and declare people hypocrites based on it!

I won't be marrying in a church (you do know that can happen right..?), won't be baptising any kids and once I'm dead, well I won't exactly have much control over that will I? Prefer a cremation though.

Bannasidhe

woodoo wrote: »

I don't know, its something you never really see discussed. I would like some info on it as someone living in a fairly rural part of ireland.

My brother owns a grave in West Cork. He bought it off Cork County Council - that rural enough for you?

matrim

The only religious ceremonies I attend are for those of friends, e.g. friends weddings. I won't be getting kids batpised and won't be having a church wedding or funeral.

I would have changed my baptismial record via count me out but the CC no longer allow that. When necessary I record my official religion as no religion, i.e. in the cencus, hospital forms etc

Talking about hypocrisy how many Catholics have pre-maritial sex, use contraception, eat meat on (Good) Friday, work on Sundays, take the sacraments regularly and fast for hte appropriate amount before hand?

Bannasidhe

bluewolf wrote: »

Let's all make things up and declare people hypocrites based on it!

blue- I can't believe that you would make up stuff about people making stuff up!

You hypocrite.


:pac:

woodoo

mewso wrote: »

Now what was that about hypocrisy? ?

I still think there is a lot of hypocrisy involved with people on forums giving out yards about the catholic church but will still do nothing to prevent themselves being given a catholic funeral. I'm not saying you specifically as you have said you will get a humanist funeral.

If people are going to rubbish religion then they should be a bit more principled about their objection to it.

coffee_cake

woodoo wrote: »

I still think there is a lot of hypocrisy involved with people on forums giving out yards about the catholic church but will still do nothing to prevent themselves being given a catholic funeral. I'm not saying you specifically as you have said you will get a humanist funeral.

If people are going to rubbish religion then they should be a bit more principled about their objection to it.

I think people should be more principled about practising the religion they claim to be a part of

Dades

You seem to be addressing 3 things. Baptisms, weddings and funerals.

Firstly, as mentioned, the church has a stranglehold on schools. If that went away the amount of baptisms would drop. And if grandparents stopped guilting their children into splashing their kids that would help, too.

Regarding weddings, I'd agree with you in cases where both couples are non-religious. Taking RC vows just to get married in a RC church is somewhat dishonest. Where one half is nominally catholic, no problem.

Burials? I'd imagine most of here don't want some priest we've never met droning on about stuff we actively rejected during our lives. My guess is that those of us who haven't laid out some non-religious plan for our loved-ones to follow, are leaving it for those left to do what comforts them. We'll be dead and it won't matter to us. I've told my missis at least I want to be cremated.

Lastly, you'd do well to not barge in shouting things like "Hypocrisy!" without knowing the mob you're addressing. Starts you off on the wrong foot tbh.

woodoo

bluewolf wrote: »

I won't be marrying in a church (you do know that can happen right..?), won't be baptising any kids and once I'm dead, well I won't exactly have much control over that will I? Prefer a cremation though.

You do have control you can tell your loved ones you don't want a catholic burial.

woodoo

Bannasidhe wrote: »

My brother owns a grave in West Cork. He bought it off Cork County Council - that rural enough for you?

What sort of ceremony does he want?

Bannasidhe

woodoo wrote: »

I still think there is a lot of hypocrisy involved with people on forums giving out yards about the catholic church but will still do nothing to prevent themselves being given a catholic funeral. I'm not saying you specifically as you have said you will get a humanist funeral.

If people are going to rubbish religion then they should be a bit more principled about their objection to it.

Yes - those pesky Atheists organising Catholic funerals for themselves.

They should leap up out of the coffin and cry foul - the hypocrites.

Bannasidhe

woodoo wrote: »

What sort of ceremony does he want?

One where they bury him deep so he can get a bit of peace.

The Big Red Button

I won't be having a Catholic marriage ceremony (or any religious marriage ceremony, for that matter.) No child of mine will ever be baptised, or will ever be put through any ritual ceremonies - they can decide their own beliefs when they're old enough to do so.

As for when I die? My family will do whatever gives them comfort and peace.

krudler

bluewolf wrote: »

I think people should be more principled about practising the religion they claim to be a part of

This, it amazes me how many Catholics are clueless about Catholicism.

woodoo

matrim wrote: »

The only religious ceremonies I attend are for those of friends, e.g. friends weddings. I won't be getting kids batpised and won't be having a church wedding or funeral.

I would have changed my baptismial record via count me out but the CC no longer allow that. When necessary I record my official religion as no religion, i.e. in the cencus, hospital forms etc

Talking about hypocrisy how many Catholics have pre-maritial sex, use contraception, eat meat on (Good) Friday, work on Sundays, take the sacraments regularly and fast for hte appropriate amount before hand?

Good post and i agree with you. I would like to leave the church and have it recognised. I have been into the Count me out site and understand that the pope has changed the rules in 2010. If i leave i really would like to cut all ties with the catholic church.

Patser

Ah here I'm not falling for this again. You'll be telling me Woodoo is just Jernal in disguise and this is another satirical thread.

krudler

Wedding (if anyone would have me) would be humanist, preferably not in Ireland too.

Kids, again if there are ever any, won't be baptised, won't budge an inch on that, and it's something I'd bring up with anyone I thought I had a future with so it's not an issue later on.

Funeral? fire me out of a cannon off a cliff for all I care. I'd love a firey boat funeral, Viking style.

woodoo

Dades wrote: »

Lastly, you'd do well to not barge in shouting things like "Hypocrisy!" without knowing the mob you're addressing. Starts you off on the wrong foot tbh.

I accept that. This thread was originally started in After Hours and was to be a bit more of a lively to and fro typical AH thread. When it was closed i just copied and pasted into this forum. I should probably have changed the post a bit then.

I am genuinely interested in burial options and ceremonies in particular for those that have left the church.

Sofaspud

woodoo wrote: »

How many of you claim to be an atheist but will still be seen walking down the isle of their local church to get married?

Definitely not, any church wedding I've been to has been incredibly boring. I want an entertaining wedding, not a boring mass officiated by a bible-wielding (alleged) virgin.

How many will be seen carrying their child into the church to get baptised

I'm against this idea, but my girlfriend is very insistent that if we do have kids they get baptised. This is purely because of the aforementioned school issue, and quite frankly I don't give enough of a crap about my kids name going into a book of fairy tales to affect their education. I won't, however, have any part in their brainwashing.

How many of you when you die will be carried into the church in a coffin for your own funeral mass and then be brought to the cemetery. Where a priest will oversee you lowered into the ground?

The last funeral I was at in a church was for a friend. This friend was never particularly religious, and would have been closer to agnostic / spiritualist than anything. During the ceremony, the priest used her death to push forward his agenda about magic and fairy tales, and I found this completely disrespecful to the person and her life. I've since made sure that when I die, no religion is to be involved in my funeral, and that's the only thing I care about for my funeral. I'll be dead, so they can fire me out of a cannon into a lion enclosure for all I care. I won't know (unfortunately, because that sounds brilliant) because I'll be dead.
Though I'd also prefer that any useful bits of me can be donated to whichever (scientific and medical) areas to which they'd be of use.

That is gross hypocrisy. How many of you have made efforts to leave the Church and let your local priest know you are now an atheist and do not want any involvement whatsoever with the church, including all the services offered.

I'm lucky in that I was never baptised so I'm not on any records for the RCC. If I was, I can't imagine I'd make the effort to tell a priest. I know people who have tried, and excommunication is nearly impossible. I'll just continue ticking "No religion" on the census and voting with my feet, by not using the church where there is an option.

However, it is far from hypocrisy for atheists to use any church services. In Ireland, it is the cultural norm to use churches for weddings, funerals and baptisms are a requirement for many schools. I've never attended a secular funeral so I don't know how they would work, as most funeral homes are based on religion, making it a matter of convenience.
It's also a matter of keeping family members happy, or purely of tradition.

woodoo

Bannasidhe wrote: »

One where they bury him deep so he can get a bit of peace.

Does he want a humanist ceremony or has he other plans?

Bannasidhe

woodoo wrote: »

I accept that. This thread was originally started in After Hours and was to be a bit more of a lively to and fro typical AH thread. When it was closed i just copied and pasted into this forum. I should probably have changed the post a bit then.

I am genuinely interested in burial options and ceremonies in particular for those that have left the church.

http://www.humanism.ie/ceremonies

Three Seasons

I'm an atheist an just got married a few weeks ago. It was a civil ceremony, My wife is an a la carte catholic sonOninsisted it was a civil ceremony and she didn't care. Most attendees were delighted they didn't have to got to a church.

I did however have my daughter baptised for logistical reasons.

Play To Kill

woodoo wrote: »

That is gross hypocrisy. How many of you have made efforts to leave the Church and let your local priest know you are now an atheist and do not want any involvement whatsoever with the church, including all the services offered.

For those that have contacted your local priest/church and the archbishop and the Vatican how will you be buried, married etc?

Why would I tell a priest that I don't want any involvement in the church? I didn't willingly become a member of the church, it was my parents that were catholic and had me baptised and included me in their superstitious rituals.

Why would I make any effort to tell an organisation that I never joined that I don't want to be a member any more? That's just ridiculous