What is wrong with the national side?

dtpc191991

Here is the big one. Are we not good enough or is it the coaching or what the hell is going on?

danthefan

90% is this:

dtpc191991

danthefan wrote: »

90% is this:

You say that and I would love to believe that but the players have on filed instincts if they didn't they wouldn't have made it this far so why is it when a guy has clear support and his hands are free he isn't looking to offload regardless of what was worked on in training.

trouttrout

We got incredibly unlucky with injury, and we have a bad coach. You only have to look at how our pack and backs are virtual separate entities with ball in hand. Not good enough for the modern game

Sundy

Can someone change the name to the kidney out thread? The other one got locked but i think the seriousness of the issue gets lost in the other discussions.

66 days,,

Sundy

dtpc191991 wrote: »

You say that and I would love to believe that but the players have on filed instincts if they didn't they wouldn't have made it this far so why is it when a guy has clear support and his hands are free he isn't looking to offload regardless of what was worked on in training.

A selection of excellent players dont make a good team. Countless Lions tours has proved this.

Sure blame it on injuries but you also got to ask why has Kidney been so conservative up until now?

Tox56

Something wrong with conditioning? Falling off in the second half of games and picking up an absurd amount of injuries

thomond2006

someone reset the kidney clock from days to minutes...

CIARAN_BOYLE

Is it just me that is pissed with the lack of a post match interview with Kidney today.

I was hoping that he would announce the end of his carrer as Irish Head Coach at it

Sundy

Tox56 wrote: »

Something wrong with conditioning? Falling off in the second half of games and picking up an absurd amount of injuries

A lot of our injuries have been breakages and concusions so probably doesnt point to conditioning so much.

Tox56

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Is it just me that is pissed with the lack of a post match interview with Kidney today.

I was hoping that he would announce the end of his carrer as Irish Head Coach at it

Can't even use the "we have to focus on the next game" answer anymore

Letsdoit

Why do peolpe expect so much from Ireland when have they ever shown they are a world class side?

Mister Gooey

Bye Bye Deccie!!

sydthebeat

Letsdoit wrote: »

Why do peolpe expect so much from Ireland when have they ever shown they are a world class side?

We expect so much because going from grand slam to wooden spoon in four years is an indictment on the management, who have had the same core squad to select from.

If you set high standards you MUST be willing to back them up, we haven't.

We aren't world beaters, but we certainly are better than 3 wins from 10 in the last two 6n

Sundy

Letsdoit wrote: »

Why do peolpe expect so much from Ireland when have they ever shown they are a world class side?

Why would you post something so stupid? Seriously to say Ireland have never played world class rugby is ignorant.

Ireland have been world class on many occasions for example the first half against Wales.
The win against argentina in autumn.
Th enarrow defeat by NZ in the summer.
Last World cup against Australia

The problem is being consistently world class.

Tin Foil Hat

Letsdoit wrote: »

Why do peolpe expect so much from Ireland when have they ever shown they are a world class side?

Quite a large chunk of the last decade and massive amounts of success with the same players at club level

Letsdoit

Sundy wrote: »

Why would you post something so stupid? Seriously to say Ireland have never played world class rugby is ignorant.

Ireland have been world class on many occasions for example the first half against Wales.
The win against argentina in autumn.
Th enarrow defeat by NZ in the summer.
Last World cup against Australia

The problem is being consistently world class.

The post above yours you do make very good case and I agree especially with all the management picking the same side for four years.

So your definition of world class rugby is playing 40 minutes against a side that's ranked below you. Beating a battered Argentina side. Coming close to beating New Zealand when the very next game they go and put 60 points don't make me laugh.

I should not of said world class but the most people post here is gob smacking. Moaning and moaning instead of getting behind the side.

I have being to both Leinster and Munster games and the atmosphere is electric. Any time I've been to an Ireland game I must it has been absolute crap.

Letsdoit

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Quite a large chunk of the last decade and massive amounts of success with the same players at club level

Ya at club level Ireland as a whole have not clicked as a whole team haven't since the grand slam.

danthefan

Letsdoit wrote: »

Ya at club level Ireland as a whole have not clicked as a whole team haven't since the grand slam.

You don't really get it. The frustration comes from seeing year after year this team performing miles below what they're capable of. It's not even about winning the slam every year or being "world class", it's about a consistent level of performance that reflects the quality of player we have. That has not been there.

Sundy

Letsdoit wrote: »

The post above yours you do make very good case and I agree especially with all the management picking the same side for four years.

So your definition of world class rugby is playing 40 minutes against a side that's ranked below you. Beating a battered Argentina side. Coming close to beating New Zealand when the very next game they go and put 60 points don't make me laugh.

I should not of said world class but the most people post here is gob smacking. Moaning and moaning instead of getting behind the side.

I have being to both Leinster and Munster games and the atmosphere is electric. Any time I've been to an Ireland game I must it has been absolute crap.

Yes we played 40 minutes of world class rugby against Wales. I love the way you avoid referring to the way we bet Australia in the last World Cup.
The marginal loss to NZ we stood toe to toe with them and played top quality. The fact they hammered us the next week doesn't change the fact we played world class rugby against a world class team that day.

Just remember most people here have never played or coached rugby so their expectancies can be more than they should and tolerance for mistakes can be lower than it should be. However atmosphere and fans expectancy has nothing to do with playing to a world class standard on a regular basis.
And to be honest the only team in the top 10 that we haven't beaten in the last 10 years is NZ, so pretty much by definition that makes us world class whether you like it or not.

jimjamcos

Injuries.
Lack of leadership, both on and off the pitch.
Lack of a distinct game-plan.
Lack of long-term planning.
Lack of fitness.
Lack of confidence as result of all of the above.

I've watched Leinster training on numerous occasions and game situations are continuously replicated. Training game after training game encouraging open running rugby gives players the confidence to express themselves and, importantly, improves players handling skills under pressure. Joe Schmidt seems to bring fun to such training games and instills players with the basic enjoyment of playing the game. Ireland, most will agree, seems to be a burden around good players necks so you'd have to assume Kidney does not.

Ireland, like the present Munster it seems, are slow and regimented in their approach to the game and as a result lack the confidence/arrogance (call it what you want) to run at teams, make them play on their terms and turn games in their favour. Kicking aimlessly as a first option is a sign of a team lacking confidence, a game-plan and the belief to win any match... in any field sport!

Anybody who has watched Ireland's games in this 6 Nations will rarely have been confident in us freely scoring trees at any stage bar maybe the opening period in the Millenium Stadium. We've lacked the belief, for whatever reason, and a change in management, and philosophy, is the most effective way to try and fix this.

NinjaK

Our back up players arnt good enough for International standard and the coach needs to go.

Podge_irl

The problems start with Kidney, though they certainly don't end there.

Nonetheless we were significantly more competitive consistently under EOS while the provinces were not doing as well in Europe.

clsmooth

How many tries did we score? 5?

Tigerandahalf

A lot of people are blaming Kidney but a new coach wont work miracles. Bottom line is that the players arent good enough. We are too small for a start and lack talent in key areas like TH and number 7.
The contrast in atmosphere between the Aviva and Millenium stadium is striking too.
Our fitness levels are also a huge issue. The players arent fit enough. Maybe they should be playing more games.

thebaz

Kidney is the problem - Watching how organised and exciting Leinster are with primarily Irish homegrown players, then watch the plod rugby played by the same players under Kidney , is striking. Kidney deserved his chance and did well starting out , but its been all downhill since the WC defeat to Wales , where a talented group of players never showed up, and deserved better. Heaslip is no captain , this was another strange and incorrect decision to take the captaincy away from BOD . Hopefully a new era for Irish rugby can begin , spearheaded by BOD , and Schmidt - I used to be primarily an Irish fan , then Leinster , and I want to go back to that status

trouttrout

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

A lot of people are blaming Kidney but a new coach wont work miracles. Bottom line is that the players arent good enough. We are too small for a start and lack talent in key areas like TH and number 7.
The contrast in atmosphere between the Aviva and Millenium stadium is striking too.
Our fitness levels are also a huge issue. The players arent fit enough. Maybe they should be playing more games.

What players exactly aren't good enough?

Also, while we lack depth at TH, we certainly don't at 7. SOB is a world class 7 and Chris Henry is a brilliant replacement.

Mr.Applepie

4 of which were in the 1st 45mins in Wales? or was it 3?

jimbomalley

Letsdoit wrote: »

I have being to both Leinster and Munster games and the atmosphere is electric. Any time I've been to an Ireland game I must it hatmosphereeen absolute crap.

More corporate fans at international games these days due to the ticket price definitely leads to poor atmosphere. Actually had a running heated argument with some auld sod (and his bloody son - who was my age btw) one game as I was seated in front of him and me and my mates kept standing and cheering when we made a break! Ffs if ya dont want to cheer on your team stay at home.
A lot of ireland attendees never go to provincal games so know nothing about generating an atmosphere whereas provincal fans make a day of matches were the atmosphere begins in the pub before the game and is carried through to the final whistle

Sean Kinsella

Letsdoit wrote: »

Moaning and moaning instead of getting behind the side.

Any time I've been to an Ireland game I must it has been absolute crap.

Ask yourself why that is, without blaming people who've paid good money to 'get behind the team'.

BTW shouting "Come on Ireland" for 80+ minutes doesn't prevent the opposition overwhelming us at home (or anywhere else). I tried it at the former Cardiff Arms Park in 1981; we still lost to a late drop goal.

Sean

Tigerandahalf

Sean OBrien isnt a seven.
Chris Henry isnt good enough for Ireland and is a converted 8. Look at Tipuric today and you have a classic 7.