Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

ionadnapóca

Winters wrote: »

I was the person that asked Mick Dawson about the terracing, back in December 2010.

Fair play.
You can put the question to him again.

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/9400.php#.UT8TqdbQrzo

Macy0161

its_phil wrote: »

I'd imagine its easy enough to conform to those UEFA regulations seen as the FAI installed seating on the Hill in Croker.

There's also "safe standing" that is used in Europe (esp. Germany) that converts easily into seats*. Then the RDS would get the best of both worlds.

*Should've been incorporated into Lansdowne Road at either end, and would've given a bit more capacity (although that may be capped anyway) for Rugby and Concerts.

Winters

The rail seats you talk about is not proper terracing and a poor excuse for terracing. What they do however is allow German clubs to play in UEFA competitions.

The IRB do not have the same regulations that UEFA do and thus the likes of Ravenhill, Thomond, Sportsground, Parc Y Scarlets, Arms Parks, Glouchester, Franklin's Gardens etc. all have traditional terracing.

Im hoping that any redevelopment of the RDS includes good terracing like the above.

With regards to the differences of regulations between sports, perhaps its not the facilities themselves..

Heroditas

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Seems similar to what I saw about a year ago

There are two main issues that are still to be resolved.

Issue one. There is no funding set up. The RDS don't have reserves to pay for it and they don't want to borrow. Since there are no reserves and no desire to borrow the funding will have to come from naming rights. With the economy the way it is no wants to splash out on the naming rights.

Issue two. The RDS wants and possibly needs in order to secure naming rights a longer term deal with Leinster Rugby to use the RDS. Leinster however do not wish to be trapped into a longer deal. After all a few years ago the RDS seemed to be big enough as is. We would not want to be trapped into using the redeveloped RDS for 30 years when in ten years time we might be capable of regularly filling the Aviva.

Untill those issues are resolved the redevelopment won't happen. God knows how long it will take.

The starting point for negotiations for naming rights is €1.5m per annum for 10 years.
Not many companies here currently have that financial clout bar maybe utilities or insurance firms.

CatFromHue

If Supermacs and Abrekebabra went halves they could call it the SuperKebabra stadium.

Trojan

I completely disagree with BOD on this one. Far from being the dark ages, the terraces are the soul of a crowd.

Podge_irl

My ST is in the south stand, but I occasionally join my friends in the terrace. The view is worse but its a lot more fun. The old East stand terraces in Lansdowne were absolutely great craic.

CatFromHue

BOD is an expert on a lot of things rugby related but not on sitting/standing in the stand/terraces.

Sure when was the last time he stood in a terrace?

irishbucsfan

BOD's opinion on watching rugby is about as relevant to me as my opinion on playing rugby is to BOD.

[Jackass]

The reason matches at Lansdowne are like a funeral is the lack of terrace. I have had a season ticket in every single section of the RDS and also had stand tickets and terrace tickets in Donnybrook, and without question, the tiny terrace of 2,000 in RDS carries the rest of the 16,000 in trying to get an atmosphere going, and the atmosphere in Donnybrook, with a quarter of the crowd, would put RDS to shame.

The "cheap" fans are the ones who bring all the flags, colours and beers and get the place rocking, the rest are all spectators. Sorry to all non-terrace dwellers, but it's true. I would never leave the terrace and have even felt like a deliquent in my own teams stadium for being vocal elsewhere in the stadium.

ongarite

Trojan wrote: »

I completely disagree with BOD on this one. Far from being the dark ages, the terraces are the soul of a crowd.

I agree but maybe look at this from the RDS point of view.
Its their facility and I could make a guess that terracing and expanded terracing the whole length of the pitch that some are calling for would not be acceptable to the horse loving crowd.

If Leinster want a stadium like Thomond or the new Ravenhill with dedicated terracing they need to find their own facility, not ground share.

totallegend

Found this the other night, might be of interest for nostalgia purposes... a letter sent to ST holders at the beginning of the 06-07 season, talking about the plans for the initial redevelopment of the RDS.

"The RDS are going to put up floodlights, relay their playing surface and convert the stadium into a 15,000 all seater arena"



Also talks excitedly about the signings of Owen Finegan and Harry Vermaas...

Heroditas

[Jackass] wrote: »

The reason matches at Lansdowne are like a funeral is the lack of terrace. I have had a season ticket in every single section of the RDS and also had stand tickets and terrace tickets in Donnybrook, and without question, the tiny terrace of 2,000 in RDS carries the rest of the 16,000 in trying to get an atmosphere going, and the atmosphere in Donnybrook, with a quarter of the crowd, would put RDS to shame.

The "cheap" fans are the ones who bring all the flags, colours and beers and get the place rocking, the rest are all spectators. Sorry to all non-terrace dwellers, but it's true. I would never leave the terrace and have even felt like a deliquent in my own teams stadium for being vocal elsewhere in the stadium.

There's many an evening when I can barely hear the shouting and cheering from the terraces over in the Grandstand so let's try and keep our feet on the ground here.

Eponymous

Heroditas wrote: »

There's many an evening when I can barely hear the shouting and cheering from the terraces over in the Grandstand so let's try and keep our feet on the ground here.

Sorry about that.

We really must try harder.

Heroditas

Eponymous wrote: »

Sorry about that.

We really must try harder.

That's not what I was saying. :rolleyes:

.ak

Yeah let's not turn this into a 'I'm a better fan cuz I sit here' argument. For what it's worth I sit in the Anglesea stand, but make as much noise as the people below in the terrace. Having said that, if I was just visiting RDS I would certainly try the terrace, there's great banter and there's an element of if you're standing up, pressed into an area, you'll break your bread with your neighbour (or share a tin as the case may be) and create a bit of banter.

I have to say I visited Ravenhill for the first time in december, and the memory I'll take back with me was the banter I had with the Ulster fans in the terrace. Great craic. Maybe it was the away fan element, but I defo gave it my all vocally and I do think having a terrace plays a huge part in that.

There's a social element to it too - I can totally get onto the idea that turning up after work to a game, standing around in a terrace and blowing off steam by having a bit of banter and a chinwag with friends or strangers is as much a cultural thing as it is a financial thing. I think terraces play a huge part in rugby life, not just from a spectators point of view. The fact that the majority of rugby fans are quite friendly helps the idea of the terrace.

Regarding a financial point of view, I think Ravenhill have hit the nail on the head - they have terracing around both sides of the stadium, and they only open sections as they fill up. I would certainly believe on match days they pack in more people than they would if it was an all-seater.

I think there's scope to put in terracing infront of the anglesea stand. I reckon if they can do it, they will.

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

Yeah let's not turn this into a 'I'm a better fan cuz I sit here' argument. For what it's worth I sit in the Anglesea stand, but make as much noise as the people below in the terrace. Having said that, if I was just visiting RDS I would certainly try the terrace, there's great banter and there's an element of if you're standing up, pressed into an area, you'll break your bread with your neighbour (or share a tin as the case may be) and create a bit of banter.

I have to say I visited Ravenhill for the first time in december, and the memory I'll take back with me was the banter I had with the Ulster fans in the terrace. Great craic. Maybe it was the away fan element, but I defo gave it my all vocally and I do think having a terrace plays a huge part in that.

There's a social element to it too - I can totally get onto the idea that turning up after work to a game, standing around in a terrace and blowing off steam by having a bit of banter and a chinwag with friends or strangers is as much a cultural thing as it is a financial thing. I think terraces play a huge part in rugby life, not just from a spectators point of view. The fact that the majority of rugby fans are quite friendly helps the idea of the terrace.

Regarding a financial point of view, I think Ravenhill have hit the nail on the head - they have terracing around both sides of the stadium, and they only open sections as they fill up. I would certainly believe on match days they pack in more people than they would if it was an all-seater.

I think there's scope to put in terracing infront of the anglesea stand. I reckon if they can do it, they will.

That about sums it up for me, a terrace dweller. Add to that the fact that I'm normally there with anywhere from 8-12 others it just makes interacting with one another far easier than if we were all lined up in the stands. I couldn't imagine sitting in the RDS. Regardless of the cost I would chose the terrace every time. It just so happens to be the cheapest option too which is a lovely little bonus.

JustinDee

[Jackass] wrote: »

The "cheap" fans are the ones who bring all the flags, colours and beers and get the place rocking, the rest are all spectators. Sorry to all non-terrace dwellers, but it's true.

I'd disagree with that. The crowd throughout are normally very vociferous. This generalistic gauging of 'fan-ness' is far too subjective and easily disproven by simply being at a game.

[Jackass]

A video of the proposed redevelopment has been posted

http://www.coybib.com/rds-redevelopment-fly-through-video/

Honey-ec

durkadurka wrote: »

I heard the anglesea stand was a listed building but I could be wrong

This old chestnut. It's not listed. I've no idea why everyone thinks it is?

Hagz

I don't like it. Reminds me of Liberty Stadium.

awec

Looks a bit "meh", though I guess you are constrained by the horses.

[Jackass]

I have to agree.

Whilst I really hope something is done, and soon, as the current anglesea is a glorified shed, at the same time, it would have been nice to have something a little more impressive.

I do like parts of it, I think the corners look well and it seems like the Grandstand could eventually be replaced with a replica stand on the far side, but it's the north and south parts that really take away from it for me, the fact that they remain pretty unchanged is fine, but it would have been cool if they could have a new roof spanning 3/4's of the "new" stadium, leaving the anglesea as it is.

Also how difficult could it be to have terracing at the front of the new stand?

Although it does say that this is in no way a final draft, so maybe it is planned differently, I suppose we'll have to wait and see what Mick Dawson says, but we have to bare in mind, it's the RDS' stadium, and they simply might have no time for terracing, as remember, this is a rugby stadium 6 months of the year, but the other 6 months it is a concert venue (where terracing would be a complete waste, as people stand on the pitch area) and it is a horse show venue, where terracing is a waste again (Come on youuuuu Lady Luckkkk!! - chanting for horses doesn't seem to work) and it's a football stadium (or at least will try to attract LOI clubs for FAI matches and European matches if it can) and I'm not sure terracing is considered ok in football any more by UEFA etc.

So whilt it suits Leinsters needs, it doesn't suit the RDS, so potentially terrace could be a non-runner, you never know.

But feck it, it's better than nothing.

Also an interesting point about the joint ownership, apperantly Ulster raised about as much revenue from home games as Leinster did with half the crowds, because of the lease Leinster pay - my source for this is an Ulster fan, so it could be complete b0llox, but if it was true, you'd have to say long term the RDS wouldn't be a great option without ownership as there's feck all money in it...

CIARAN_BOYLE

[Jackass] wrote: »

Also an interesting point about the joint ownership, apperantly Ulster raised about as much revenue from home games as Leinster did with half the crowds, because of the lease Leinster pay - my source for this is an Ulster fan, so it could be complete b0llox, but if it was true, you'd have to say long term the RDS wouldn't be a great option without ownership as there's feck all money in it...

I would buy this. Mick Dawson mentioned a while back that we pay more rent then any other league team and in addition the RDS gets 100% of the concession money at the stadium, which I would think is significant enough.

awec

UEFA doesn't allow terracing for European games, so the terracing at the RDS would only be useful for LOI fixtures and in that situation why would any of the LOI clubs use it over their home ground?

Is there any merit in the long term option for Leinster being the development of their own stadium? Or are the costs there just too high? I'm not sure if Donnybrook could be redeveloped, seems like there's no room really.

CIARAN_BOYLE

awec wrote: »

UEFA doesn't allow terracing for European games, so the terracing at the RDS would only be useful for LOI fixtures and in that situation why would any of the LOI clubs use it over their home ground?

Is there any merit in the long term option for Leinster being the development of their own stadium? Or are the costs there just too high?

No room to expand Donnybrook so it would have to be a greenfield site. Too expensive to buy in dublin 4 so it would have to be a move to somewhere on the M50 probably.

Not central enough for supporters to commute to and probably still to expensive.

Long term plan would probably be to move more matches to aviva.

A number of African and South American international teams hold friendlies in small-midsized English stadium so the RDS might want to get in on that action.

awec

Are Leinster having to pay for any of the redevelopment?

Larbre34

molloyjh wrote: »

That about sums it up for me, a terrace dweller. Add to that the fact that I'm normally there with anywhere from 8-12 others it just makes interacting with one another far easier than if we were all lined up in the stands. I couldn't imagine sitting in the RDS. Regardless of the cost I would chose the terrace every time. It just so happens to be the cheapest option too which is a lovely little bonus.

+1 on this, the Anglesea terraces are the best craic in the ground. I moved for a couple of games to meet friends high up on the South Stand and it was exposed, remote and quiet, plus tons of kids running around not bothered with the game, The Anglesea terraces dont permit kids so the banter is grown up and racey enough and you dont have ankle-biters underfoot.

It would be a shame and a mistake if they didnt factor in terracing in the new design, plenty of scope for an old Lansdowne Road style East Terrace in front of the new Anglesea stand. Capacity would be improved then too.


Does anyone remember EA Rugby 07, the screenshots of a fictional Donnybrook for Leinster home games looked very much like this new design!!

.ak

awec wrote: »

Are Leinster having to pay for any of the redevelopment?

Don't think so. RDS are looking for naming rights.

CIARAN_BOYLE

awec wrote: »

Are Leinster having to pay for any of the redevelopment?

Leinster haven't been asked for money yet. They have been asked to commit to the RDS and to erase all break clauses out of the current lease.

The RDS will definitely not borrow to pay for the development and have zero reserves so if naming rights don't cover it who knows where the money will come from.