Sneak Peak - RDS Redevelopment Plans

COYBIB

Hi all,

So I have had a sneak preview of the RDS redevelopment plans and thought you may like to have a look.

Not the finalised plans by any means, but I am reliably informed that negotiations are ongoing regarding funding for the stadium and this has been the first draft of sorts of what is being presented as the "product".

MOD: SNIP

Personally, I think it looks great, there's a classy look to it, almost like an arena out of Wimbledon!

Some features likely to ruffle a few feathers though, it doesn't appear to have any terracing area included, which could see a lot of fans annoyed, and I don't really get why the roof isn't completely wrapped around.

I love the pillars in the corners and the exterior though, similar to other RDS buildings.

The link also happens to be my blog by the way it's in its infancy, but over time I hope to build it up and will continue to add interesting content, so feel free to share, like etc. etc.

MOD EDIT: Advertising your own site/blog is not allowed.

durkadurka

Very nice. Pity there's no terracing though .

Big question is how firm the plans are ? And when ???

Podge_irl

I assume the lack of roof has to do with the north and south stand stand being removeable for the horse show. Looks good all the same, but the lack of terrace would be awful.

durkadurka

I heard the anglesea stand was a listed building but I could be wrong

At 23k it would be a cracking venue .
And Dublin would have a nice selection of different sized venues from tallaght at 8k, rds at 23k, Aviva at 52k and croker at 80k

dregin

Podge_irl wrote: »

I assume the lack of roof has to do with the north and south stand stand being removeable for the horse show. Looks good all the same, but the lack of terrace would be awful.

BOD's opinion on terraces: https://twitter.com/BrianODriscoll/status/310008790663692288

CIARAN_BOYLE

Seems similar to what I saw about a year ago

There are two main issues that are still to be resolved.

Issue one. There is no funding set up. The RDS don't have reserves to pay for it and they don't want to borrow. Since there are no reserves and no desire to borrow the funding will have to come from naming rights. With the economy the way it is no wants to splash out on the naming rights.

Issue two. The RDS wants and possibly needs in order to secure naming rights a longer term deal with Leinster Rugby to use the RDS. Leinster however do not wish to be trapped into a longer deal. After all a few years ago the RDS seemed to be big enough as is. We would not want to be trapped into using the redeveloped RDS for 30 years when in ten years time we might be capable of regularly filling the Aviva.

Untill those issues are resolved the redevelopment won't happen. God knows how long it will take.

durkadurka

dregin wrote: »

BOD's opinion on terraces: https://twitter.com/BrianODriscoll/status/310008790663692288

This might be sacrilige but he's wrong! Terraces generate the atmosphere because people are standing and like minded people can stand together.
Also groups of mates can stand together.

phog

Looks great, only issues I'd have with it are the lack of terracing and uncovered stands behind the try lines. Nothing worse than sitting in the rain.

irishbucsfan

We have to respect the RDS's heritage and the horse show, and if uncovered stands at either end are required for that then so be it.

Lack of terracing is a bit of a shame though.

phog

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We have to respect the RDS's heritage and the horse show, and if uncovered stands at either end are required for that then so be it.

Lack of terracing is a bit of a shame though.

True, I understand the reasoning but it's a pain in the ass sitting in the rain.

Eponymous

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We have to respect the RDS's heritage and the horse show, and if uncovered stands at either end are required for that then so be it.

Lack of terracing is a bit of a shame though.

South stand doesn't need to be moved, does it? I thought that was already at the extremes of the arena, whereas the north stand sits a fair distance in.

Agree re a lack of terracing. It would be a huge loss to the ground.

Podge_irl

It doesn't actually rain that often so I'm not overly concerned about the lack of roof. I say that as a south stand STH. Would be nicer with it, but I understand the reasoning behind it. A roofed structure is much more difficult to move.

molloyjh

Where are people getting the impression there won't be any terracing? All the pics show the Grandstand and the back of the Angelsea. All the terracing is presently on the Angelsea side. So you wouldnt see it in those pics. Dawson confirmed when they were first talking about this that the terracing was going to stay. I heard there was talk of extending the terrace the whole way across the Angelsea as well.

Don't see this happening any time soon, which is a shame because the RDS could do with it.

Lapin

Podge_irl wrote: »

It doesn't actually rain that often ........

What ?

copacetic

molloyjh wrote: »

Where are people getting the impression there won't be any terracing? All the pics show the Grandstand and the back of the Angelsea. All the terracing is presently on the Angelsea side. So you wouldnt see it in those pics. Dawson confirmed when they were first talking about this that the terracing was going to stay. I heard there was talk of extending the terrace the whole way across the Angelsea as well.

Don't see this happening any time soon, which is a shame because the RDS could do with it.

They are getting the impression because you are looking at the angelsea side. As you can see by the shape of the site and the rds layout over the stand, with the paddocks etc, the main pic is looking over south stand.

Dave_The_Sheep

Lapin wrote: »

What ?

I'm with podge here. Given it's Ireland, you expect it to be raining for games a lot more. It doesn't do it that often.

durkadurka

It's about one game a season where it rains believe it or not.

Winters

I was the person that asked Mick Dawson about the terracing, back in December 2010.

16. May I ask if larger terraces for standing fans are included in the future plans for Leinster Rugby? I believe terraces are an integral part of rugby grounds and provide for greater atmosphere at games.

We are currently looking at a redevelopment of the Anglesea Stand and we acknowledge that the terrace is an integral part of what we do and we would plan to have a terrace as part of the new redevelopment whenever it happens.

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/olsc/6278.php

Terracing is a huge part of Ravenhill, Thomond and the Sportsground. It would be a massive mistake to exclude terracing from a redeveloped RDS. If the pictures are legit then that is a real worry.

I can only imagine that the RDS are driving the all seater designs. Its been mentioned a few times in the media that they were looking at replacing the Anglesea Stand with an all seater stand.

"At the moment the stand is a mixture of seating and terracing underneath. What we would like to do is put an 8,000 all-seater stand there. We are looking at different options for doing that."

http://www.herald.ie/news/rds-bucks-trend-with-80000-fans-as-the-horse-whisperer-reins-with-his-magic-27958868.html

That was back in 2010 and prompted me submit my question to Mick Dawson on it.

What is slightly confusing is the reasons for doing so. Terracing is also quite popular during the Horse Show and the only reason I can think RDS chief executive Michael Duffy is pushing for all-seater is to adhere to UEFA regulations?

molloyjh

copacetic wrote: »

They are getting the impression because you are looking at the angelsea side. As you can see by the shape of the site and the rds layout over the stand, with the paddocks etc, the main pic is looking over south stand.

Ah yes, I was so busy looking at the stadium I didn't pay any attention to the surrounding areas.

We need to keep the terrace and if they do decide to get rid of it there will be a lot of hard-core supporters not best pleased at all.

its_phil

Winters wrote: »

What is slightly confusing is the reasons for doing so. Terracing is also quite popular during the Horse Show and the only reason I can think RDS chief executive Michael Duffy is pushing for all-seater is to adhere to UEFA regulations?

I'd imagine its easy enough to conform to those UEFA regulations seen as the FAI installed seating on the Hill in Croker.

Winters

its_phil wrote: »

I'd imagine its easy enough to conform to those UEFA regulations seen as the FAI installed seating on the Hill in Croker.

Only if its a temporary measure. But yes, it may be possible for a once off match.

On further inspection in this image here it could appear as shallow terracing at the front of the North stand ORIGNAL URL SNIPPED
And then in this image (ORIGNAL URL SNIPPED) the areas for the subs and the tunnel are in front of the first row of blue seats with a shallow grey area between the pitch and the first row of blue seats perhaps a very shallow terrace all around?

Who knows..

LeinsterDub

Winters wrote: »

Only if its a temporary measure. But yes, it may be possible for a once off match.

In this image here it could appear as shallow terracing at the front of the North stand - ORIGNAL URL SNIPPED

Who knows..

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Safe_standing_area_fitted_with_rail_seats.jpg

UEFA looked after

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_standing

Dravokivich

durkadurka wrote: »

This might be sacrilige but he's wrong! Terraces generate the atmosphere because people are standing and like minded people can stand together.
Also groups of mates can stand together.

That and they are the cheapest season tickets, with the best views.

Which reminds me....

...Call the brother and renew.

Aidric

I'll never understand peoples fascination with terracing in this day and age. O Driscoll's comments nails it. I'd argue a casual fan would be more likely to take in a game if they were seated as opposed to standing.

Unless there is an excellent reason for it, then the lack of a covered stand on the north and south ends is pretty retarded.

LeinsterDub

Aidric wrote: »

I'll never understand peoples fascination with terracing in this day and age. O Driscoll's comments nails it. I'd argue a casual fan would be more likely to take in a game if they were seated as opposed to standing.

Unless there is an excellent reason for it, then the lack of a covered stand on the north and south ends is pretty retarded.

The the casual fan can sit, and the other casual fan who likes to stand can stand. It's not an either or choice. What's wrong with offering people the chance to a)get a cheap ticket b) stand and be with their friends ?

molloyjh

Aidric wrote: »

I'll never understand peoples fascination with terracing in this day and age. O Driscoll's comments nails it. I'd argue a casual fan would be more likely to take in a game if they were seated as opposed to standing.

Unless there is an excellent reason for it, then the lack of a covered stand on the north and south ends is pretty retarded.

Seated areas tend to make it harder for groups to congregate and interact with one another. That has knock on effects on atmosphere. Nobody is saying do away with seating altogether, just don't do away with terracing altogether either.

totallegend

Aidric wrote: »

I'll never understand peoples fascination with terracing in this day and age. O Driscoll's comments nails it. I'd argue a casual fan would be more likely to take in a game if they were seated as opposed to standing.

Unless there is an excellent reason for it, then the lack of a covered stand on the north and south ends is pretty retarded.

Seating makes up 95% of the capacity of the RDS, plenty of room for casual fans to sit down, keeping the terraces doesn't discourage anyone from attending. Not sure what the ratio is at Thomond but there are always plenty of seating tickets available.

Personally, I had an RDS terrace season ticket for 3 years then moved to the Grandstand. Much more comfortable, better view (I'm only a short fella) but a lot less atmosphere.

I think the point is that the IRFU, Alan Quinlan and whoever else can't give out about lack of atmosphere at games if they actively do everything they can to suck the atmosphere out of it.

PS, the north and south stands are removed for show-jumping and concerts, hence the lack of roof.

Fits Morris

I find Brian O'Driscoll's comments that "we need to move out of the dark ages" in relation to terracing bizarre. In all sports the atmosphere will always be better on a terrace (and that filters through to the rest of the ground) and it's a huge part of the reason why the new Lansdowne Road has such a terrible atmosphere. If anything the areas behind the goal at Lansdowne should be converted to a terrace to i) allow more people into the stadium ii) provide cheaper tickets iii) improve the atmosphere.

I also find it bizarre how it's only at sporting events where the drive towards all-seater stadiums is considered so important. I can go to any music event in Ireland or worldwide and stand. If I go to the Olympia or the new Point Depot, I stand. If I go to Slane, I stand. Should there be a drive to make all music events all seater? Why is there the same obsession with making sports arenas all-seater? It's more terracing that is needed at modern stadiums, not a drive to eradicate it.

It's been said many times - the Bundesliga is the example others should follow. There's no better sight in European sport than Borussia Dortmund's Sud Tribune, packed for every Bundesliga match with 27,000 people standing.

Leinster would be making a serious mistake in going all-seater.

themont85

Fits Morris wrote: »

I find Brian O'Driscoll's comments that "we need to move out of the dark ages" in relation to terracing bizarre. In all sports the atmosphere will always be better on a terrace (and that filters through to the rest of the ground) and it's a huge part of the reason why the new Lansdowne Road has such a terrible atmosphere. If anything the areas behind the goal at Lansdowne should be converted to a terrace to i) allow more people into the stadium ii) provide cheaper tickets iii) improve the atmosphere.

I also find it bizarre how it's only at sporting events where the drive towards all-seater stadiums is considered so important. I can go to any music event in Ireland or worldwide and stand. If I go to the Olympia or the new Point Depot, I stand. If I go to Slane, I stand. Should there be a drive to make all music events all seater? Why is there the same obsession with making sports arenas all-seater? It's more terracing that is needed at modern stadiums, not a drive to eradicate it.

It's been said many times - the Bundesliga is the example others should follow. There's no better sight in European sport than Borussia Dortmund's Sud Tribune, packed for every Bundesliga match with 27,000 people standing.

Leinster would be making a serious mistake in going all-seater.

Drico hasn't been on a real terrace for years in fairness, he'll have forgotten the joys...

Winters

The design is quite curious. The corner stands would be useless for the horse show when they remove the north and south stands and use the full length of the grass area.

Dravokivich

Winters wrote: »

The design is quite curious. The corner stands would be useless for the horse show when they remove the north and south stands and use the full length of the grass area.

Looking over it again, I don't think there's as much room for'em as the artist impression implies.

ionadnapokot

Winters wrote: »

I was the person that asked Mick Dawson about the terracing, back in December 2010.

Fair play.
You can put the question to him again.

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/9400.php#.UT8TqdbQrzo

Macy0161

its_phil wrote: »

I'd imagine its easy enough to conform to those UEFA regulations seen as the FAI installed seating on the Hill in Croker.

There's also "safe standing" that is used in Europe (esp. Germany) that converts easily into seats*. Then the RDS would get the best of both worlds.

*Should've been incorporated into Lansdowne Road at either end, and would've given a bit more capacity (although that may be capped anyway) for Rugby and Concerts.

Winters

The rail seats you talk about is not proper terracing and a poor excuse for terracing. What they do however is allow German clubs to play in UEFA competitions.

The IRB do not have the same regulations that UEFA do and thus the likes of Ravenhill, Thomond, Sportsground, Parc Y Scarlets, Arms Parks, Glouchester, Franklin's Gardens etc. all have traditional terracing.

Im hoping that any redevelopment of the RDS includes good terracing like the above.

With regards to the differences of regulations between sports, perhaps its not the facilities themselves..

Heroditas

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Seems similar to what I saw about a year ago

There are two main issues that are still to be resolved.

Issue one. There is no funding set up. The RDS don't have reserves to pay for it and they don't want to borrow. Since there are no reserves and no desire to borrow the funding will have to come from naming rights. With the economy the way it is no wants to splash out on the naming rights.

Issue two. The RDS wants and possibly needs in order to secure naming rights a longer term deal with Leinster Rugby to use the RDS. Leinster however do not wish to be trapped into a longer deal. After all a few years ago the RDS seemed to be big enough as is. We would not want to be trapped into using the redeveloped RDS for 30 years when in ten years time we might be capable of regularly filling the Aviva.

Untill those issues are resolved the redevelopment won't happen. God knows how long it will take.

The starting point for negotiations for naming rights is €1.5m per annum for 10 years.
Not many companies here currently have that financial clout bar maybe utilities or insurance firms.

CatFromHue

If Supermacs and Abrekebabra went halves they could call it the SuperKebabra stadium.

Trojan

I completely disagree with BOD on this one. Far from being the dark ages, the terraces are the soul of a crowd.

Podge_irl

My ST is in the south stand, but I occasionally join my friends in the terrace. The view is worse but its a lot more fun. The old East stand terraces in Lansdowne were absolutely great craic.

CatFromHue

BOD is an expert on a lot of things rugby related but not on sitting/standing in the stand/terraces.

Sure when was the last time he stood in a terrace?

irishbucsfan

BOD's opinion on watching rugby is about as relevant to me as my opinion on playing rugby is to BOD.

[Jackass]

The reason matches at Lansdowne are like a funeral is the lack of terrace. I have had a season ticket in every single section of the RDS and also had stand tickets and terrace tickets in Donnybrook, and without question, the tiny terrace of 2,000 in RDS carries the rest of the 16,000 in trying to get an atmosphere going, and the atmosphere in Donnybrook, with a quarter of the crowd, would put RDS to shame.

The "cheap" fans are the ones who bring all the flags, colours and beers and get the place rocking, the rest are all spectators. Sorry to all non-terrace dwellers, but it's true. I would never leave the terrace and have even felt like a deliquent in my own teams stadium for being vocal elsewhere in the stadium.

ongarite

Trojan wrote: »

I completely disagree with BOD on this one. Far from being the dark ages, the terraces are the soul of a crowd.

I agree but maybe look at this from the RDS point of view.
Its their facility and I could make a guess that terracing and expanded terracing the whole length of the pitch that some are calling for would not be acceptable to the horse loving crowd.

If Leinster want a stadium like Thomond or the new Ravenhill with dedicated terracing they need to find their own facility, not ground share.

totallegend

Found this the other night, might be of interest for nostalgia purposes... a letter sent to ST holders at the beginning of the 06-07 season, talking about the plans for the initial redevelopment of the RDS.

"The RDS are going to put up floodlights, relay their playing surface and convert the stadium into a 15,000 all seater arena"



Also talks excitedly about the signings of Owen Finegan and Harry Vermaas...

Heroditas

[Jackass] wrote: »

The reason matches at Lansdowne are like a funeral is the lack of terrace. I have had a season ticket in every single section of the RDS and also had stand tickets and terrace tickets in Donnybrook, and without question, the tiny terrace of 2,000 in RDS carries the rest of the 16,000 in trying to get an atmosphere going, and the atmosphere in Donnybrook, with a quarter of the crowd, would put RDS to shame.

The "cheap" fans are the ones who bring all the flags, colours and beers and get the place rocking, the rest are all spectators. Sorry to all non-terrace dwellers, but it's true. I would never leave the terrace and have even felt like a deliquent in my own teams stadium for being vocal elsewhere in the stadium.

There's many an evening when I can barely hear the shouting and cheering from the terraces over in the Grandstand so let's try and keep our feet on the ground here.

Eponymous

Heroditas wrote: »

There's many an evening when I can barely hear the shouting and cheering from the terraces over in the Grandstand so let's try and keep our feet on the ground here.

Sorry about that.

We really must try harder.

Heroditas

Eponymous wrote: »

Sorry about that.

We really must try harder.

That's not what I was saying. :rolleyes:

.ak

Yeah let's not turn this into a 'I'm a better fan cuz I sit here' argument. For what it's worth I sit in the Anglesea stand, but make as much noise as the people below in the terrace. Having said that, if I was just visiting RDS I would certainly try the terrace, there's great banter and there's an element of if you're standing up, pressed into an area, you'll break your bread with your neighbour (or share a tin as the case may be) and create a bit of banter.

I have to say I visited Ravenhill for the first time in december, and the memory I'll take back with me was the banter I had with the Ulster fans in the terrace. Great craic. Maybe it was the away fan element, but I defo gave it my all vocally and I do think having a terrace plays a huge part in that.

There's a social element to it too - I can totally get onto the idea that turning up after work to a game, standing around in a terrace and blowing off steam by having a bit of banter and a chinwag with friends or strangers is as much a cultural thing as it is a financial thing. I think terraces play a huge part in rugby life, not just from a spectators point of view. The fact that the majority of rugby fans are quite friendly helps the idea of the terrace.

Regarding a financial point of view, I think Ravenhill have hit the nail on the head - they have terracing around both sides of the stadium, and they only open sections as they fill up. I would certainly believe on match days they pack in more people than they would if it was an all-seater.

I think there's scope to put in terracing infront of the anglesea stand. I reckon if they can do it, they will.

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

Yeah let's not turn this into a 'I'm a better fan cuz I sit here' argument. For what it's worth I sit in the Anglesea stand, but make as much noise as the people below in the terrace. Having said that, if I was just visiting RDS I would certainly try the terrace, there's great banter and there's an element of if you're standing up, pressed into an area, you'll break your bread with your neighbour (or share a tin as the case may be) and create a bit of banter.

I have to say I visited Ravenhill for the first time in december, and the memory I'll take back with me was the banter I had with the Ulster fans in the terrace. Great craic. Maybe it was the away fan element, but I defo gave it my all vocally and I do think having a terrace plays a huge part in that.

There's a social element to it too - I can totally get onto the idea that turning up after work to a game, standing around in a terrace and blowing off steam by having a bit of banter and a chinwag with friends or strangers is as much a cultural thing as it is a financial thing. I think terraces play a huge part in rugby life, not just from a spectators point of view. The fact that the majority of rugby fans are quite friendly helps the idea of the terrace.

Regarding a financial point of view, I think Ravenhill have hit the nail on the head - they have terracing around both sides of the stadium, and they only open sections as they fill up. I would certainly believe on match days they pack in more people than they would if it was an all-seater.

I think there's scope to put in terracing infront of the anglesea stand. I reckon if they can do it, they will.

That about sums it up for me, a terrace dweller. Add to that the fact that I'm normally there with anywhere from 8-12 others it just makes interacting with one another far easier than if we were all lined up in the stands. I couldn't imagine sitting in the RDS. Regardless of the cost I would chose the terrace every time. It just so happens to be the cheapest option too which is a lovely little bonus.

JustinDee

[Jackass] wrote: »

The "cheap" fans are the ones who bring all the flags, colours and beers and get the place rocking, the rest are all spectators. Sorry to all non-terrace dwellers, but it's true.

I'd disagree with that. The crowd throughout are normally very vociferous. This generalistic gauging of 'fan-ness' is far too subjective and easily disproven by simply being at a game.

[Jackass]

A video of the proposed redevelopment has been posted

http://www.coybib.com/rds-redevelopment-fly-through-video/

Honey-ec

durkadurka wrote: »

I heard the anglesea stand was a listed building but I could be wrong

This old chestnut. It's not listed. I've no idea why everyone thinks it is?