Gels and drinks, when and how much?

tombliboo83

Right so, my training for cork is going well and Im curious to know at what point in your lsr are ye taking gels,water or energy drinks?Im up to 14 miles at 8.20mm for my lsr and have no desire for an energy drink at all,only 200mls of water seems to do me..should I be taking on more?and should I be considering a gel when I get to 19 miles for eg?I ask as my training is going well and I dont feel the desire at all so far in complete contrast to last year when Id have 250 ml of lucozade and water after 14miles.Why is this?Are energy drinks a crutch?I do anticipate using a gel but would a banana be of more use?I run on my oen always and so dont have much idea of ither runners "refueling" points and wgat worjs best.Thanks for any replies

Enduro

If you eat and drink on your training runs then you're training your system to have a dependency on it. If you don't then your system will adapt to not need them as much. Gels are particularly bad. Keep going as you are and don't consume anything when you're training. You'll have less need to stop or worry about these things when i comes to race day.

A0

Drink to thirst, train your body to eat the smallest possible amount of food during long runs / long distance races.
This is an excellent book to read: http://www.amazon.com/Waterlogged-Serious-Problem-Overhydration-Endurance/dp/145042497X

Peterx

Just another point of view to the starvation fans...

If you intend to use gels in your race you need to make sure they agree with your system. Gels are brilliant when used properly but can cause severe stomach cramps if you can't process them.

So make sure you DO try a gel at some point during a long hard run, long slow runs won't replicate race pace feeling.

Possibly of more importance then gels (and sugars) can be electrolytes which keep the dreaded cramp at bay.

A0

Peterx wrote: »

Just another point of view to the starvation fans...

If you intend to use gels in your race you need to make sure they agree with your system. Gels are brilliant when used properly but can cause severe stomach cramps if you can't process them.

So make sure you DO try a gel at some point during a long hard run, long slow runs won't replicate race pace feeling.

Possibly of more importance then gels (and sugars) can be electrolytes which keep the dreaded cramp at bay.

No, cramps are not caused by electrolyte imbalances... Just a long standing belief See Waterlogged or this paper

Peterx

A0 wrote: »

No, cramps are not caused by electrolyte imbalances... Just a long standing belief See Waterlogged or this paper

I will be taking dioralyte sachets to stop cramp onset again this year, as I have successfully done for years.
Good luck with ingesting that paper of yours:)

A0

Peterx wrote: »

I will be taking dioralyte sachets to stop cramp onset again this year, as I have successfully done for years.
Good luck with ingesting that paper of yours:)

Haha! I wish this paper was mine.

Good luck with ingesting dioralyte sachets

plodder

I always wonder about this idea of gels "agreeing with you". Taste is a personal thing obviously, but I think the mistake that people make is to take too many of them (for the pace they are racing at) - or with sports drinks, to drink too much at once. The only variable that really matters is the rate that we can absorb them, and the harder you're running then the slower it is. Definitely agree with the poster that training runs at target pace are the only time that it makes sense to experiment.

oinkely

Total novice here when it comes to gels etc......

But I did try them last weekend in preperation for the Belfast marathon in May. Usually I just take a few jellies on long runs (over 20km) and some water or Zero sports drink (cause it tastes refreshing, not sure that it actually does what it says on the tin!)

Instead of taking the jellies I stuffed three gels in my belt, two High5 with caffeine ones and an SIS blackcurrant one. I ran at around my hoped for marathon pace (was planning on running a bit slower but it was a flat enough route and I felt pretty good). Aiming for 3.30 or a smidge less for the maraton so that is 5 mins per km or 8 mins per mile.

Had a rough plan of one gel at about 1 hr 15 minutes and then one more at 1 hr 45 and another at 2 hrs 15.

What actually happened - took the first one at around 1 hr 30 (mainly because at 1 hr 15 I was running along a section of the N18 with no hard shoulder and I wanted to keep my concentration on the traffic and avoiding getting squished by an oncoming vehicle). It was a high 5 one with caffeine (supposedly orange flavoured but really it tasted like muck in a packet). Still, managed to consume it all over about 5 minutes (and then had to run for 15 minutes with the damn packet in my hand until I came across a strategically placed bin!).

It certainly wasn't the tastiest thing I have ever consumed and it didn't leave me relishing the thought of my next one. I put off taking the next one for a while as I wasn't really looking forward to it. Eventually around 2 hrs or so I hauled out the next one, which happened to be the SIS one. Tore it open and took a glug, not quite as rank as the High 5 one but still not particularly appetising. This time it took about 8 miutes of mini sips to get it in. Didn't bother with the third one as I was close enough to the finish.

Observations - wound up doing 31 km in 2hrs 35 and felt pretty good right to the end. Usually I flag around 24 to 26 km on the long runs (running slower than 5 min per km). There was no flagging, now that could be attributed to the extra boost from the gels or to just general improvements to endurance from the training.

No stomach issues, but then I took way less than the High 5 leaflet recommends - one very 15 minutes after an hour or something similar!
I'll try them again and I'll also do a similar run with just jellies to compare.

Just my tuppence worth.

Hope someone finds it helpful.

Enduro

oinkely wrote: »

No stomach issues, but then I took way less than the High 5 leaflet recommends - one very 15 minutes after an hour or something similar!
I'll try them again and I'll also do a similar run with just jellies to compare.

Surprise surprise.... High 5 reccommend that you need to buy tons of High 5!!

You don't need Gels. They're mostly counterproductive as they just give you a sugar boost. (If you bonk then that boost is useful to get you going again, but that's about it). That's not good for endurance racing, and its particularly bad in endurance training.

For comparison, I ran a 72 hour race two months ago and took no gels whatsoever. I certainly wouldn't ever anticipate needing them in a marathon.

I took a total of zero gels in training in my lifetime. I have no dependencies on the things as a result. High 5's recommendations are no more than marketing BS, and should be treated as such.

spurscormac

Nowhere near Enduro's level, as I only run as far as HM, with the odd adventure race thrown in over the last few years.
Have tried a few of the jelly sweets, and while they were fine in training, taking them when racing they were very hard to chew up and swallow, kept finding bits sticking in my throat (that was last year at connemara half).

So I haven't gone near them since and did a HM last weekend without them. I did fade in the last 3 miles, but I think that was due to a deficit in long training runs rather than a need for a boost.

On adventure races, I have found jaffa cake & Nutri Grain Elevenses bars pretty good and have no reaction to eating them - seems best done while on the bike section or waiting at a checkpoint to get the in then.

As Enduro says, I don't think they're really a necessity, just a clever marketing ploy.

ultraman1

oinkely wrote: »

High 5 recommends - one very 15 minutes after an hour .

same guy works for shampoo company,,wash hair and repeat,,if u took 1 every 15mins ud be sh1t'n toothpaste for a week

plodder

I take the point about training lean, and have always practised that myself, but at the end of the day sugar is fuel, and if you're running low, why wouldn't you add fuel to the tank? Maybe the sweet spot is the marathon distance. Any shorter and you definitely don't need it. Any longer and you probably can't take in enough to make much difference.

nerraw1111

I take high 5 gels and their advice is ridiculous. That said, I don’t buy it’s a marketing ploy either. They work if you are dependent on requiring calories during an event. Some people have trained so they don’t need them.

Question is whether you need them or not.

In contrast to Enduro, other top guys in ultra running rely on gels, such as arguably the best ultra (trail) runner in the world at the moment, Killian Jornet. He also eats jam and nutella but try sticking them down your shorts. http://www.irunfar.com/2011/10/race-nutrition-with-kilian-jornet.html

That said, he doesn't take anything during (short for him) 6 hour runs.

Like anything in this sport, it depends on the individual.

Enduro

plodder wrote: »

I take the point about training lean, and have always practised that myself, but at the end of the day sugar is fuel, and if you're running low, why wouldn't you add fuel to the tank? Maybe the sweet spot is the marathon distance. Any shorter and you definitely don't need it. Any longer and you probably can't take in enough to make much difference.

The trick would be to not run low in the first place by training to fat-burn efficiently. Sure, it's definitely adding fuel to the tank, and I do it occasionally myself in races in extreme circumstances. But there are much better (and nicer) ways of fueling up (in general).

I definitely don't agree that the aproximate distance from Marathon to Athens, plus a few hundred extra yards for the king to see the finish line, is likely to be a sweetspot for thousands of millions of human evolution. Why would it be? There is nothing special about the marathon distance. It's just another completely arbritary distance.

How many gels do you reckon John Tracey consumed when he set the Irish marathon record? (or used in training for that matter).

Enduro

nerraw1111 wrote: »

I take high 5 gels and their advice is ridiculous. That said, I don’t buy it’s a marketing ploy either. They work if you are dependent on requiring calories during an event. Some people have trained so they don’t need them.

Indeed! The'r marketing advice will ensure you become dependant on them by training your system to need them. Everyone uses energy when they run, obviously. But you don't need expensive bad tasting sugary gunk as a consequence. There are much better sources to draw on, including your own in-built fuel tank (fat) if you train your system appropriately.

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Question is whether you need them or not.

In contrast to Enduro, other top guys in ultra running rely on gels, such as arguably the best ultra (trail) runner in the world at the moment, Killian Jornet. He also eats jam and nutella but try sticking them down your shorts. http://www.irunfar.com/2011/10/race-nutrition-with-kilian-jornet.html

That said, he doesn't take anything during (short for him) 6 hour runs.

Like anything in this sport, it depends on the individual.

I doubt you'll find many people to argue that Killian isn't the best ultra trail runner in the world right now! Thanks for the link. A good read.

plodder

Enduro wrote: »

The trick would be to not run low in the first place by training to fat-burn efficiently. Sure, it's definitely adding fuel to the tank, and I do it occasionally myself in races in extreme circumstances. But there are much better (and nicer) ways of fueling up (in general).

I definitely don't agree that the aproximate distance from Marathon to Athens, plus a few hundred extra yards for the king to see the finish line, is likely to be a sweetspot for thousands of millions of human evolution. Why would it be? There is nothing special about the marathon distance. It's just another completely arbritary distance.

The theory, as I understood it anyway, is that 26 miles is just a bit beyond the distance you can run reasonably fast, but fuelled pretty much exclusively by muscle glycogen. You can run slower if you want and burn more fat, but ideally you want to just about run out of glycogen on the finish line. Also, the more glycogen you burn relative to fat, the faster you can go.

How many gels do you reckon John Tracey consumed when he set the Irish marathon record? (or used in training for that matter).

Did they exist back then? They're no different to sports drinks though really, and I'd be surprised if some top marathoners don't (or didn't) use them. Don't they put their own drinks out on the course in advance? Reminds me, I've a vague memory of Jerry Kiernan talking about it. I think he said both himself and Treacy only used water, and there was something about the '84 Olympic marathon, and some shenanigans with runners stealing each others drinks. Kiernan accused Treacy of stealing his, because someone had taken Treacy's and he knew Kiernan's was just water :pac:

Enduro

plodder wrote: »

The theory, as I understood it anyway, is that 26 miles is just a bit beyond the distance you can run reasonably fast, but fuelled pretty much exclusively by muscle glycogen. You can run slower if you want and burn more fat, but ideally you want to just about run out of glycogen on the finish line. Also, the more glycogen you burn relative to fat, the faster you can go.

That theory sounds to me like someone trying to shoehorn the right question into the optimal answer (possibly from the point of view of marketing sports drinks/gels, or possibly driven by the notion that the arbritary distance of 42.2km is somehow magical in some way). It definitely doesn't fit in with my own personal experience (and whilst one person conforming to the theory doesn't really show anything, one person definitively not conforming to the theory shows that at the very least its not absolutely correct).

plodder wrote: »

Did they exist back then? They're no different to sports drinks though really, and I'd be surprised if some top marathoners don't (or didn't) use them. Don't they put their own drinks out on the course in advance? Reminds me, I've a vague memory of Jerry Kiernan talking about it. I think he said both himself and Treacy only used water, and there was something about the '84 Olympic marathon, and some shenanigans with runners stealing each others drinks. Kiernan accused Treacy of stealing his, because someone had taken Treacy's and he knew Kiernan's was just water :pac:

Their lack of existance back then is exactly my point. Ireland's top performing marathon runners ever didn't need to use expensive gunk to achieve their performances. Gels are not required (and in my own opinion are actually counter-productive most of the time). I'm sure some top runners do use them. Nobody's perfect

Good story . Just goes to show that those kind of shenanigans at aid stations go all the way to the top of the pile!

hardCopy

@Enduro, would you take on anything other than water at Marathon distance? What about longer races, would you stick to solid fuel i.e. real food?

tombliboo83

Had my 14mile lsr this morning with only a sup of water (apart from the rain) along the way.Feel a bit tired but didn't need any "fuel" apart from a good bowl of porridge 2hours before.Going to continue training with only water and a good pre run meal....

plodder

Enduro wrote: »

That theory sounds to me like someone trying to shoehorn the right question into the optimal answer (possibly from the point of view of marketing sports drinks/gels, or possibly driven by the notion that the arbritary distance of 42.2km is somehow magical in some way). It definitely doesn't fit in with my own personal experience (and whilst one person conforming to the theory doesn't really show anything, one person definitively not conforming to the theory shows that at the very least its not absolutely correct).

I don't think it's that 42.2km is a magical distance, but that glycogen stores do run out at some point, between 15 miles and some upper limit, depending on the individual. I doubt that the upper limit is signficantly higher than 26 miles in anyone. But, maybe for the likes of John Treacy it was higher, and knowing that it made sense to just take in water. That's why I think it's a different story for ultras where fat burning has to have a bigger influence.

dekbhoy

Enduro wrote: »

The trick would be to not run low in the first place by training to fat-burn efficiently. Sure, it's definitely adding fuel to the tank, and I do it occasionally myself in races in extreme circumstances. But there are much better (and nicer) ways of fueling up (in general).

I definitely don't agree that the aproximate distance from Marathon to Athens, plus a few hundred extra yards for the king to see the finish line, is likely to be a sweetspot for thousands of millions of human evolution. Why would it be? There is nothing special about the marathon distance. It's just another completely arbritary distance.

How many gels do you reckon John Tracey consumed when he set the Irish marathon record? (or used in training for that matter).

hi enduro

i am relatively new to the running scene, i completed DCM and around seven 10 km races in the last year. my goal is to complete an ultra marathon this year along with Great limerick run and DCM again. My farthest training run was 34km(no gels etc.) and felt relatively ok during it but how do know when your body is fat burning as opposed to burning carbs. i have taken gels during marathon but only took because a lot of other people were rather than feeling i needed them.

antomagoo

plodder wrote: »

I don't think it's that 42.2km is a magical distance, but that glycogen stores do run out at some point, between 15 miles and some upper limit, depending on the individual. I doubt that the upper limit is signficantly higher than 26 miles in anyone. But, maybe for the likes of John Treacy it was higher, and knowing that it made sense to just take in water. That's why I think it's a different story for ultras where fat burning has to have a bigger influence.

I remember talking to a sports nutritionist (who is probably well known to the folks over on the Tri forum) a while back. His take on it was that the human body has enough glycogen stores to last for 2 hours worth of exercise. He was talking in the context of half & full marathons.

There are much better sources to draw on, including your own in-built fuel tank (fat) if you train your system appropriately.

Enduro, have you any links to any good articles about the above or would you be willing to post something more detailed on it?

mr.wiggle

Great article here on LSR's and fueling or not !

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/articlePages/article/2

dekbhoy

mr.wiggle wrote: »

Great article here on LSR's and fueling or not !

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/articlePages/article/2

very interesting read indeed.....

Enduro

hardCopy wrote: »

@Enduro, would you take on anything other than water at Marathon distance? What about longer races, would you stick to solid fuel i.e. real food?

I generally wouldn't take on water at all, as I'm not a fan of the taste. If I was grabbing a drink I'd go for something flavoured. The last 2 Marathons I did were both off-roaders (Mourne Way Marathon and Causeway Coast Marathon). They had a rule about it being mandatory to carry emergency food and drink. So I had about 400ml of some variety of isotonic drink with me in my hand, and that was all I can remember drinking. I didn't need to stop at the aid stations (I think I still have the course record for both races ).

For longer races I try to get as much fuel in liquid form as possible. These days I like proteing shake type drinks. The "for goodness shakes" have tasty flavours and go down easily so I bring along some sachets of those for myself. They're essentially milkshakes, which I love, and also are more likely to make you feel satiated and less hungry as a result. I'm taking less and less solid food these days, but always aim for something "real" if I can get it, so the meats and cheeses available at the UTMB aid stations are prefect, for example. One reason for taking less solids is that it (Hopefully) cuts down on the need for longer "Nature breaks".

Enduro

plodder wrote: »

I don't think it's that 42.2km is a magical distance, but that glycogen stores do run out at some point, between 15 miles and some upper limit, depending on the individual. I doubt that the upper limit is signficantly higher than 26 miles in anyone. But, maybe for the likes of John Treacy it was higher, and knowing that it made sense to just take in water. That's why I think it's a different story for ultras where fat burning has to have a bigger influence.

Maybe maybe! I'd like to have that discussion with the likes of Barry Murray to get an overview of what the latest theory says about glycogen limits. I would guess (and no more than that) that it would vary wildly between individuals, and be something that is adaptable, and will therefore be altered by targeted training. You're absolutely right of course that in longer races like ultras fat burning *should* have a bigger influence.

Enduro

dekbhoy wrote: »

hi enduro

i am relatively new to the running scene, i completed DCM and around seven 10 km races in the last year. my goal is to complete an ultra marathon this year along with Great limerick run and DCM again. My farthest training run was 34km(no gels etc.) and felt relatively ok during it but how do know when your body is fat burning as opposed to burning carbs. i have taken gels during marathon but only took because a lot of other people were rather than feeling i needed them.

There's lots of guidelines around for training zones (as percentages of maximum effort) which tell you when you're likely to be fat-burning etc. Have a google! Bear in mind though that theories change over time. One obvious way you know you're fat burning is when you can do your LSRs (long slow runs) with the need to take any food during the run (and preferably without taking any food immediately beforehand either). You'd be unlikely to be able to get away with that if you were burning glycogen.

Again, it's definitely something which you can train your body to adapt and get better at, in exactly the same way you're training your body to adapt to run further and faster. It sounds like you're doing well!

Enduro

antomagoo wrote: »

Enduro, have you any links to any good articles about the above or would you be willing to post something more detailed on it?

I've learned a lot of the theory from very long conversations with Barry Murray. He had some great articles in Magazine which unfortunatly are not online. He has some great articles on his blog, like this one. Well worth reading a few of them. I've read similar articles elsewhere, but can't remember where unfortunately!

TFBubendorfer

dekbhoy wrote: »

my goal is to complete an ultra marathon this year along with Great limerick run and DCM again

Just out of curiosity, which ultra have you got your eyes on?

Rogue Runner

antomagoo wrote: »

Enduro, have you any links to any good articles about the above or would you be willing to post something more detailed on it?

This article may be of interest. I do know that Bob Seebohar has written a book on the subject.

dekbhoy

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, which ultra have you got your eyes on?

first looked at Connemara but picked up injury so no where near ready. So decided to go for end of summer, hopefully Achill or maybe the causeway but I'm determined to complete 1 this year. Assuming I can stay fit that is.

TFBubendorfer

dekbhoy wrote: »

first looked at Connemara but picked up injury so no where near ready. So decided to go for end of summer, hopefully Achill or maybe the causeway but I'm determined to complete 1 this year. Assuming I can stay fit that is.

Good luck with that, either of those should be great. Don't get too hung up on gels and nutrition and all that. 40(ish) miles can be done on marathon fitness and marathon training and no fancy stuff.

dekbhoy

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Good luck with that, either of those should be great. Don't get too hung up on gels and nutrition and all that. 40(ish) miles can be done on marathon fitness and marathon training and no fancy stuff.

Thank you. Yes I will certainly train without gels etc. so as to prepare my body and possibly make it more efficient but on race days I will carry supplies. For DCM I took 4-5 gels + isotonic drinks and a handful of jellies and finished comfortably enough. The thoughts of an ultra really excites me. I think it's there when you really get to know the real you and how mentally strong you really are. Anyway fingers crossed.

ncmc

I am finding that I am using less gels training for Cork than I did for Dublin last year. I was taking gels on all runs over 12 miles last year. I have only taken one gel since DCM and that was at the 10m point of a 16m run. During the marathon, I took them at mile 6, 12 and 18. I definitely do think they help, but I wouldn’t want to get into the habit of taking too many, you have to think of race day logistics and how many you can hold. I also like the sports jellies, but they can be a bit gummy and hard to eat as you get further into the run. A banana is a good idea, but I suppose it’s just the hassle of carrying it, or getting one during a race. The gels are so handy to carry. I am doing an 18m LSR this weekend, and will probably take one at mile 11 and hopefully that will do me. I wouldn’t plan to take more than one until I hit 20 miles.

I’ve never been a fan of the energy drinks; I just drink a small amount of water. I am lucky in that I don’t sweat a huge amount, so don’t need a lot of water. I do like the Hi5 electrolyte tabs; I took those during the marathon and found I had none of the cramping that affected me during my training runs. They are also great for re-hydrating after the run; I find them much better than water alone.

That’s just my 2 cents; I’m no expert by any means!

tombliboo83

ncmc wrote: »

I am finding that I am using less gels training for Cork than I did for Dublin last year. I was taking gels on all runs over 12 miles last year. I have only taken one gel since DCM and that was at the 10m point of a 16m run. During the marathon, I took them at mile 6, 12 and 18. I definitely do think they help, but I wouldn’t want to get into the habit of taking too many, you have to think of race day logistics and how many you can hold. I also like the sports jellies, but they can be a bit gummy and hard to eat as you get further into the run. A banana is a good idea, but I suppose it’s just the hassle of carrying it, or getting one during a race. The gels are so handy to carry. I am doing an 18m LSR this weekend, and will probably take one at mile 11 and hopefully that will do me. I wouldn’t plan to take more than one until I hit 20 miles.

I’ve never been a fan of the energy drinks; I just drink a small amount of water. I am lucky in that I don’t sweat a huge amount, so don’t need a lot of water. I do like the Hi5 electrolyte tabs; I took those during the marathon and found I had none of the cramping that affected me during my training runs. They are also great for re-hydrating after the run; I find them much better than water alone.

That’s just my 2 cents; I’m no expert by any means!

Youre at 18miles for your lsr tomorrow?Im doing 16 tomorrow for cork aswell..still nothing but water planned for my lsrs but I ll see how I am after tomorrow..

ncmc

tombliboo83 wrote: »

Youre at 18miles for your lsr tomorrow?Im doing 16 tomorrow for cork aswell..still nothing but water planned for my lsrs but I ll see how I am after tomorrow..

I'm following P&D up to 55 mile plan, it is mileage heavy. I'm up to 50 miles this week and 55 next week :eek:

I am definitely making an effort to take less gels this time. I'm also trying to do a few runs on an empty stomach to encourage fat burn. While I do think the gels help, I think some of it is definitely the placebo effect.

A0

Two great podcasts:

1) http://trailrunnernation.com/2013/03/dr-tim-noakes-are-we-waterlogged/
2) http://paleorunner.podbean.com/

blockic

ncmc wrote: »

I'm following P&D up to 55 mile plan, it is mileage heavy. I'm up to 50 miles this week and 55 next week :eek:

I am definitely making an effort to take less gels this time. I'm also trying to do a few runs on an empty stomach to encourage fat burn. While I do think the gels help, I think some of it is definitely the placebo effect.

I think the more you take gels, the less effect they have. I have rarely taken gels for my marathon training this time round. I only take them to check that they suit me and I don't get sick or a dodgy stomach from them. Once I test them and they are fine, I don't use any then until the marathon.

Best to do the training without the gels where possible IMO. I reckon you'd get a better boost from them on raceday as a result.

oinkely

Quick update to my provious post. As i said there i used gels in a long (for me, not for Enduro etc) run to make sure they didn't give me the trots or something like that in case I need them in my upcoming marathon.

Since then I have increased the distance by about two miles and cut out the gels completely. Have to say, not much difference between the runs using them and not. Still feel pretty tired after 30km or so. I did still eat a handful of jelly babies at 26km and they were feckin delicious, which you could never accuse a gel of being.

For me, I'll stick two gels in my pocket on the big day in case I feel like I need the boost, and definitley bring a handful of jelly babies too, more for a reward than for the energy.

Outside

It's obvious the body is really good at gradually adapting over a period of time to cope better with stresses placed on it. Training on empty is nice, go for a run, take nothing, nice and long and easy. I like doing things this way and you can be very surprised at how far you can train your body to go without constant fueling. I do the majority of my long run's without carrying anything. This weekend I did a nearly 6hr race and due to the intensity I knew I'd have to take on food during the race. So ended up drinking three of those small bottles of Lucozade sport (easy to carry while running), an oat bar and a banana. I think I had only 1sip of water. I thought this would be loads! But at about the 4hr mark, I had the biggest bonk of my life, couldn't run downhill, dizzy, felt like just sitting on side of trail and calling it a day (but still had to make the aid station to do this). Walked for a bit, started to feel better after about 20mins and then finished strong being able to run uphill again.

Was my body just not able to deal with using sugar during exercise?

What i'm trying to get at is, is there a case where you should also be training your body to be able to process fuel during a race, as in eat during training runs so your body is well able to handle calories during a race?

I'm not sure what happened me, maybe I just went out to fast and suffered the consequences but a serious bonk like that is not nice! Maybe I ate too much sugar and caused some mad sugar spike followed by a serious sugar low?

Any ideas anyone?

blockic

Outside wrote: »

What i'm trying to get at is, is there a case where you should also be training your body to be able to process fuel during a race, as in eat during training runs so your body is well able to handle calories during a race?

I'm not sure what happened me, maybe I just went out to fast and suffered the consequences but a serious bonk like that is not nice! Maybe I ate too much sugar and caused some mad sugar spike followed by a serious sugar low?

Any ideas anyone?

My simple stance is you should never take something in a race, that you haven't done a couple of times in training. Did you not have lucozade sport, banana/oat bar in any of your training runs?

You don't know how your body will react to any of these things while you are running so it is key to test them out first.

TFBubendorfer

Just a note, my stomach was unhappy during last week's marathon. I tried to force down a gel at mile 15, but that may have been a mistake. I threw away my one bottle of energy drink as well, something I never had to do beforehand.

Despite of all that, the race went very well. I guess the fact that I always train on an empty stomach came to my rescue.

b.harte

I've been following this thread, and some of the advice in it for a while now.
I've gone from using gels and carrying water for every run to not using anything up to 30km.
I did a trail marathon on Sunday and the plan was to see how I felt and decide what to do then.
Got to the 1/2 point and one of the marshals handed me a mars bar, I didn't actually want it but ate it anyway.... (tasted great)
Ran out the rest of the race with a few small sips of water and 1 gel at about 35km, on a very slow, boggy uphill section. I think I took this because I felt as if I would run out of steam later on, and I knew the end section (hard climbs) of the course.
In hindsight I do think I could have finished without any of the above, but it was a bit of reassurance to have the option.
My next outing is the Ballyhoura Mountain trail Marathon on may4th so I will repeat the above, have some supplies with me but try to hold off using them for as long as possible.
I didn't notice any discernible difference in my pace or recovery, so I'm giving a tentative thumbs up to this approach.
It is also so much nicer just going off for a run without any baggage belts/bags.
my two cents.

opus

I've been easing back on eating anything during long runs as well, as far as I remember last year if I went beyond 17ish miles without eating something along the way I really lost energy. But so far this year I've managed over 20 miles with nothing but water. Plan for this weekend is 24 miles (at an easy pace) so will see how it goes but will definitely put something in my pocket in case of emergency.