Gels and drinks, when and how much?

dekbhoy

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, which ultra have you got your eyes on?

first looked at Connemara but picked up injury so no where near ready. So decided to go for end of summer, hopefully Achill or maybe the causeway but I'm determined to complete 1 this year. Assuming I can stay fit that is.

TFBubendorfer

dekbhoy wrote: »

first looked at Connemara but picked up injury so no where near ready. So decided to go for end of summer, hopefully Achill or maybe the causeway but I'm determined to complete 1 this year. Assuming I can stay fit that is.

Good luck with that, either of those should be great. Don't get too hung up on gels and nutrition and all that. 40(ish) miles can be done on marathon fitness and marathon training and no fancy stuff.

dekbhoy

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Good luck with that, either of those should be great. Don't get too hung up on gels and nutrition and all that. 40(ish) miles can be done on marathon fitness and marathon training and no fancy stuff.

Thank you. Yes I will certainly train without gels etc. so as to prepare my body and possibly make it more efficient but on race days I will carry supplies. For DCM I took 4-5 gels + isotonic drinks and a handful of jellies and finished comfortably enough. The thoughts of an ultra really excites me. I think it's there when you really get to know the real you and how mentally strong you really are. Anyway fingers crossed.

ncmc

I am finding that I am using less gels training for Cork than I did for Dublin last year. I was taking gels on all runs over 12 miles last year. I have only taken one gel since DCM and that was at the 10m point of a 16m run. During the marathon, I took them at mile 6, 12 and 18. I definitely do think they help, but I wouldn’t want to get into the habit of taking too many, you have to think of race day logistics and how many you can hold. I also like the sports jellies, but they can be a bit gummy and hard to eat as you get further into the run. A banana is a good idea, but I suppose it’s just the hassle of carrying it, or getting one during a race. The gels are so handy to carry. I am doing an 18m LSR this weekend, and will probably take one at mile 11 and hopefully that will do me. I wouldn’t plan to take more than one until I hit 20 miles.

I’ve never been a fan of the energy drinks; I just drink a small amount of water. I am lucky in that I don’t sweat a huge amount, so don’t need a lot of water. I do like the Hi5 electrolyte tabs; I took those during the marathon and found I had none of the cramping that affected me during my training runs. They are also great for re-hydrating after the run; I find them much better than water alone.

That’s just my 2 cents; I’m no expert by any means!

tombliboo83

ncmc wrote: »

I am finding that I am using less gels training for Cork than I did for Dublin last year. I was taking gels on all runs over 12 miles last year. I have only taken one gel since DCM and that was at the 10m point of a 16m run. During the marathon, I took them at mile 6, 12 and 18. I definitely do think they help, but I wouldn’t want to get into the habit of taking too many, you have to think of race day logistics and how many you can hold. I also like the sports jellies, but they can be a bit gummy and hard to eat as you get further into the run. A banana is a good idea, but I suppose it’s just the hassle of carrying it, or getting one during a race. The gels are so handy to carry. I am doing an 18m LSR this weekend, and will probably take one at mile 11 and hopefully that will do me. I wouldn’t plan to take more than one until I hit 20 miles.

I’ve never been a fan of the energy drinks; I just drink a small amount of water. I am lucky in that I don’t sweat a huge amount, so don’t need a lot of water. I do like the Hi5 electrolyte tabs; I took those during the marathon and found I had none of the cramping that affected me during my training runs. They are also great for re-hydrating after the run; I find them much better than water alone.

That’s just my 2 cents; I’m no expert by any means!

Youre at 18miles for your lsr tomorrow?Im doing 16 tomorrow for cork aswell..still nothing but water planned for my lsrs but I ll see how I am after tomorrow..

ncmc

tombliboo83 wrote: »

Youre at 18miles for your lsr tomorrow?Im doing 16 tomorrow for cork aswell..still nothing but water planned for my lsrs but I ll see how I am after tomorrow..

I'm following P&D up to 55 mile plan, it is mileage heavy. I'm up to 50 miles this week and 55 next week :eek:

I am definitely making an effort to take less gels this time. I'm also trying to do a few runs on an empty stomach to encourage fat burn. While I do think the gels help, I think some of it is definitely the placebo effect.

A0

Two great podcasts:

1) http://trailrunnernation.com/2013/03/dr-tim-noakes-are-we-waterlogged/
2) http://paleorunner.podbean.com/

blockic

ncmc wrote: »

I'm following P&D up to 55 mile plan, it is mileage heavy. I'm up to 50 miles this week and 55 next week :eek:

I am definitely making an effort to take less gels this time. I'm also trying to do a few runs on an empty stomach to encourage fat burn. While I do think the gels help, I think some of it is definitely the placebo effect.

I think the more you take gels, the less effect they have. I have rarely taken gels for my marathon training this time round. I only take them to check that they suit me and I don't get sick or a dodgy stomach from them. Once I test them and they are fine, I don't use any then until the marathon.

Best to do the training without the gels where possible IMO. I reckon you'd get a better boost from them on raceday as a result.

oinkely

Quick update to my provious post. As i said there i used gels in a long (for me, not for Enduro etc) run to make sure they didn't give me the trots or something like that in case I need them in my upcoming marathon.

Since then I have increased the distance by about two miles and cut out the gels completely. Have to say, not much difference between the runs using them and not. Still feel pretty tired after 30km or so. I did still eat a handful of jelly babies at 26km and they were feckin delicious, which you could never accuse a gel of being.

For me, I'll stick two gels in my pocket on the big day in case I feel like I need the boost, and definitley bring a handful of jelly babies too, more for a reward than for the energy.

Outside

It's obvious the body is really good at gradually adapting over a period of time to cope better with stresses placed on it. Training on empty is nice, go for a run, take nothing, nice and long and easy. I like doing things this way and you can be very surprised at how far you can train your body to go without constant fueling. I do the majority of my long run's without carrying anything. This weekend I did a nearly 6hr race and due to the intensity I knew I'd have to take on food during the race. So ended up drinking three of those small bottles of Lucozade sport (easy to carry while running), an oat bar and a banana. I think I had only 1sip of water. I thought this would be loads! But at about the 4hr mark, I had the biggest bonk of my life, couldn't run downhill, dizzy, felt like just sitting on side of trail and calling it a day (but still had to make the aid station to do this). Walked for a bit, started to feel better after about 20mins and then finished strong being able to run uphill again.

Was my body just not able to deal with using sugar during exercise?

What i'm trying to get at is, is there a case where you should also be training your body to be able to process fuel during a race, as in eat during training runs so your body is well able to handle calories during a race?

I'm not sure what happened me, maybe I just went out to fast and suffered the consequences but a serious bonk like that is not nice! Maybe I ate too much sugar and caused some mad sugar spike followed by a serious sugar low?

Any ideas anyone?

blockic

Outside wrote: »

What i'm trying to get at is, is there a case where you should also be training your body to be able to process fuel during a race, as in eat during training runs so your body is well able to handle calories during a race?

I'm not sure what happened me, maybe I just went out to fast and suffered the consequences but a serious bonk like that is not nice! Maybe I ate too much sugar and caused some mad sugar spike followed by a serious sugar low?

Any ideas anyone?

My simple stance is you should never take something in a race, that you haven't done a couple of times in training. Did you not have lucozade sport, banana/oat bar in any of your training runs?

You don't know how your body will react to any of these things while you are running so it is key to test them out first.

TFBubendorfer

Just a note, my stomach was unhappy during last week's marathon. I tried to force down a gel at mile 15, but that may have been a mistake. I threw away my one bottle of energy drink as well, something I never had to do beforehand.

Despite of all that, the race went very well. I guess the fact that I always train on an empty stomach came to my rescue.

b.harte

I've been following this thread, and some of the advice in it for a while now.
I've gone from using gels and carrying water for every run to not using anything up to 30km.
I did a trail marathon on Sunday and the plan was to see how I felt and decide what to do then.
Got to the 1/2 point and one of the marshals handed me a mars bar, I didn't actually want it but ate it anyway.... (tasted great)
Ran out the rest of the race with a few small sips of water and 1 gel at about 35km, on a very slow, boggy uphill section. I think I took this because I felt as if I would run out of steam later on, and I knew the end section (hard climbs) of the course.
In hindsight I do think I could have finished without any of the above, but it was a bit of reassurance to have the option.
My next outing is the Ballyhoura Mountain trail Marathon on may4th so I will repeat the above, have some supplies with me but try to hold off using them for as long as possible.
I didn't notice any discernible difference in my pace or recovery, so I'm giving a tentative thumbs up to this approach.
It is also so much nicer just going off for a run without any baggage belts/bags.
my two cents.

opus

I've been easing back on eating anything during long runs as well, as far as I remember last year if I went beyond 17ish miles without eating something along the way I really lost energy. But so far this year I've managed over 20 miles with nothing but water. Plan for this weekend is 24 miles (at an easy pace) so will see how it goes but will definitely put something in my pocket in case of emergency.