Peterx wrote: » Just another point of view to the starvation fans... If you intend to use gels in your race you need to make sure they agree with your system. Gels are brilliant when used properly but can cause severe stomach cramps if you can't process them. So make sure you DO try a gel at some point during a long hard run, long slow runs won't replicate race pace feeling.Possibly of more importance then gels (and sugars) can be electrolytes which keep the dreaded cramp at bay.
A0 wrote: » No, cramps are not caused by electrolyte imbalances... Just a long standing belief See Waterlogged or this paper
Peterx wrote: » I will be taking dioralyte sachets to stop cramp onset again this year, as I have successfully done for years. Good luck with ingesting that paper of yours:)
oinkely wrote: » No stomach issues, but then I took way less than the High 5 leaflet recommends - one very 15 minutes after an hour or something similar! I'll try them again and I'll also do a similar run with just jellies to compare.
oinkely wrote: » High 5 recommends - one very 15 minutes after an hour .
plodder wrote: » I take the point about training lean, and have always practised that myself, but at the end of the day sugar is fuel, and if you're running low, why wouldn't you add fuel to the tank? Maybe the sweet spot is the marathon distance. Any shorter and you definitely don't need it. Any longer and you probably can't take in enough to make much difference.
nerraw1111 wrote: » I take high 5 gels and their advice is ridiculous. That said, I don’t buy it’s a marketing ploy either. They work if you are dependent on requiring calories during an event. Some people have trained so they don’t need them.
nerraw1111 wrote: » Question is whether you need them or not. In contrast to Enduro, other top guys in ultra running rely on gels, such as arguably the best ultra (trail) runner in the world at the moment, Killian Jornet. He also eats jam and nutella but try sticking them down your shorts. http://www.irunfar.com/2011/10/race-nutrition-with-kilian-jornet.html That said, he doesn't take anything during (short for him) 6 hour runs. Like anything in this sport, it depends on the individual.
Enduro wrote: » The trick would be to not run low in the first place by training to fat-burn efficiently. Sure, it's definitely adding fuel to the tank, and I do it occasionally myself in races in extreme circumstances. But there are much better (and nicer) ways of fueling up (in general). I definitely don't agree that the aproximate distance from Marathon to Athens, plus a few hundred extra yards for the king to see the finish line, is likely to be a sweetspot for thousands of millions of human evolution. Why would it be? There is nothing special about the marathon distance. It's just another completely arbritary distance.
How many gels do you reckon John Tracey consumed when he set the Irish marathon record? (or used in training for that matter).
plodder wrote: » The theory, as I understood it anyway, is that 26 miles is just a bit beyond the distance you can run reasonably fast, but fuelled pretty much exclusively by muscle glycogen. You can run slower if you want and burn more fat, but ideally you want to just about run out of glycogen on the finish line. Also, the more glycogen you burn relative to fat, the faster you can go.
plodder wrote: » Did they exist back then? They're no different to sports drinks though really, and I'd be surprised if some top marathoners don't (or didn't) use them. Don't they put their own drinks out on the course in advance? Reminds me, I've a vague memory of Jerry Kiernan talking about it. I think he said both himself and Treacy only used water, and there was something about the '84 Olympic marathon, and some shenanigans with runners stealing each others drinks. Kiernan accused Treacy of stealing his, because someone had taken Treacy's and he knew Kiernan's was just water :pac:
Enduro wrote: » That theory sounds to me like someone trying to shoehorn the right question into the optimal answer (possibly from the point of view of marketing sports drinks/gels, or possibly driven by the notion that the arbritary distance of 42.2km is somehow magical in some way). It definitely doesn't fit in with my own personal experience (and whilst one person conforming to the theory doesn't really show anything, one person definitively not conforming to the theory shows that at the very least its not absolutely correct).
Enduro wrote: » The trick would be to not run low in the first place by training to fat-burn efficiently. Sure, it's definitely adding fuel to the tank, and I do it occasionally myself in races in extreme circumstances. But there are much better (and nicer) ways of fueling up (in general). I definitely don't agree that the aproximate distance from Marathon to Athens, plus a few hundred extra yards for the king to see the finish line, is likely to be a sweetspot for thousands of millions of human evolution. Why would it be? There is nothing special about the marathon distance. It's just another completely arbritary distance. How many gels do you reckon John Tracey consumed when he set the Irish marathon record? (or used in training for that matter).
plodder wrote: » I don't think it's that 42.2km is a magical distance, but that glycogen stores do run out at some point, between 15 miles and some upper limit, depending on the individual. I doubt that the upper limit is signficantly higher than 26 miles in anyone. But, maybe for the likes of John Treacy it was higher, and knowing that it made sense to just take in water. That's why I think it's a different story for ultras where fat burning has to have a bigger influence.
There are much better sources to draw on, including your own in-built fuel tank (fat) if you train your system appropriately.
mr.wiggle wrote: » Great article here on LSR's and fueling or not !http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/articlePages/article/2
hardCopy wrote: » @Enduro, would you take on anything other than water at Marathon distance? What about longer races, would you stick to solid fuel i.e. real food?
dekbhoy wrote: » hi enduro i am relatively new to the running scene, i completed DCM and around seven 10 km races in the last year. my goal is to complete an ultra marathon this year along with Great limerick run and DCM again. My farthest training run was 34km(no gels etc.) and felt relatively ok during it but how do know when your body is fat burning as opposed to burning carbs. i have taken gels during marathon but only took because a lot of other people were rather than feeling i needed them.
antomagoo wrote: » Enduro, have you any links to any good articles about the above or would you be willing to post something more detailed on it?
dekbhoy wrote: » my goal is to complete an ultra marathon this year along with Great limerick run and DCM again
