Sports Extra (TNT/Premier)

irishfeen

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

Yes, I know, that's why I said "£1 million for one Match Night a week is huge money" But I can see where the misunderstanding would arise.

My Bad... get you now, still though you will not get such quality football matches for less... just look at the cost of PL rights for instance.

redabbey

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/1111/486030-bt-bskyb-rights/

Irish broadcast rights for Champions League and Europa League matches are separate to those secured by BT and will be decided at a later date.

I know what is said above is correct but if I am a new TV company giving UEFA a huge big increase in TV revenue I would want at least as good a deal as the present TV broadcaster which would also include the ROI TV rights. Sky consider themselves a UK and Ireland broadcaster it is a mistake in my opinion to just think that BT Sport just see themselves as a UK broadcaster. If they want to maximise there revenue stream they will want all rights without having to display a blue screen with 'Not available' in ROI. As far as I can remember Sky have never had to do this and I just cannot see BT Sport ever wanting to have to do it again after the present EL TV contract ends.

icdg

radiowaves wrote: »

None of us really know, we can all just make educated guesses based on the evidence (m'lud).

ICDG may have hit a nail on the head. There may well be some sort of agreement in place - but maybe it's between Sky and our local broadcasters. I don't know how much RTÉ/TV3/Setanta currently pay, and whether this is low thanks to Sky's presence, but with RTÉ Two's CL coverage geo-blocked (not to mention EL into this country) it is certainly not UEFA policy to just overlook cross-border broadcasts.
.

Indeed, none of really know. There's also the possiblity that, the UK rights being tendered for before the Irish rights, that Sky had already negotiated a stipulation that they would be allowed broadcast their coverage in Ireland, and that the Irish rights were tendered with this in mind. But that's just another possible scenario, we don't really know.

So to steer this back to BT, they're already making noises that their sports channels might not be bundled with their broadband (in the UK) indefinitely, and that customers will have to pay for this somehow:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/telecoms/10439564/BTs-Champions-League-push-to-boost-fibre-broadband.html

irishfeen

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

It wouldn't guarantee them viewership beyond the group stages. There's a level of risk once you get to the knockout stages. If there are no English or Scottish teams the viewing figures drop dramatically. The only two clubs outside of those that would keep viewing figures respectable would be Real Madrid or Barcelona.

To justify such a gamble you'd have to either be a Public Service Broadcaster with some guaranteed funding, or make a very healthy profit on the purchase. One night is probably worth the risk, but two nights it becomes riskier.

Sports for Free to Air Stations are not as tempting these days when you have to pay so much in rights. Especially when you can just throw on a soap and make more money and not annoy your core audience. (in TV3's case women who like soaps.)

Jesus anyone I know with even a slight interest in Football would always watch the latter stages of the CL whoever makes it... it is after all the greatest club competition in Europe and the showcase of European football. Viewership might drop slightly but when draws throw up matches like United v Madrid, Barca v Chelsea, Bayern v Dortmund, Milan v Barca etc then the viewership would be massive and would easily make up for other matches that might be sightly less followed.

Onthe3rdDay

irishfeen wrote: »

My Bad... get you now, still though you will not get such quality football matches for less... just look at the cost of PL rights for instance.

I agree with you. BT have actually done a disservice to the normal fan of Football in the UK and of course the knock on effects here in Ireland. The next 2 or 3 years will probably see more and more sport being grabbed by both SKY and BT at higher and higher prices. All that will be left on any station will be the stuff no one wants to watch and the listed events.

irishfeen

icdg wrote: »

Indeed, none of really know. There's also the possiblity that, the UK rights being tendered for before the Irish rights, that Sky had already negotiated a stipulation that they would be allowed broadcast their coverage in Ireland, and that the Irish rights were tendered with this in mind. But that's just another possible scenario, we don't really know.

So to steer this back to BT, they're already making noises that their sports channels might not be bundled with their broadband (in the UK) indefinitely, and that customers will have to pay for this somehow:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/telecoms/10439564/BTs-Champions-League-push-to-boost-fibre-broadband.html

I think the shear amount paid means this was always likely... I wonder what's their next big set of rights to go after in the UK? ... Cricket, Golf, F1, England internationals perhaps?

irishfeen

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

I agree with you. BT have actually done a disservice to the normal fan of Football in the UK and of course the knock on effects here in Ireland. The next 2 or 3 years will probably see more and more sport being grabbed by both SKY and BT at higher and higher prices. All that will be left on any station will be the stuff no one wants to watch and the listed events.

It is good though to open the market up.. you would never know what will happen... I just don't think BT want to bother with Ireland and if they do it will probably be in conjunction with Setanta like the PL rights. Hopefully RTÉ/TV3/UTV/TG4 can manage to keep at least two first pick games FTA every GW,

Onthe3rdDay

irishfeen wrote: »

Jesus anyone I know with even a slight interest in Football would always watch the latter stages of the CL whoever makes it... it is after all the greatest club competition in Europe and the showcase of European football. Viewership might drop slightly but when draws throw up matches like United v Madrid, Barca v Chelsea, Bayern v Dortmund, Milan v Barca etc then the viewership would be massive and would easily make up for other matches that might be sightly less followed.

Again, I understand that anyone with an interest would watch those matches, but 3 of the 4 examples you picked wouldn't be worrying the TV exes. The odd man out there would be Bayern v Dortmund, viewing figures for that would be far less than the other three.

If you're not depending on Advertising it wouldn't matter who watched those matches, But for someone like TV3 one bad match in a season could mean a difference between profit and loss. Two bad matches and people would start to sweat. If the viewers aren't there the advertisers won't pay. 10 years ago I used to work for a company that was getting ads at 10 percent of the rate card with certain Irish broadcasters.

Adverts are like hotel rooms, if you don't sweat the asset on the night, you lose the money.

radiowaves

redabbey wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/1111/486030-bt-bskyb-rights/



I know what is said above is correct but if I am a new TV company giving UEFA a huge big increase in TV revenue I would want at least as good a deal as the present TV broadcaster which would also include the ROI TV rights. Sky consider themselves a UK and Ireland broadcaster it is a mistake in my opinion to just think that BT Sport just see themselves as a UK broadcaster. If they want to maximise there revenue stream they will want all rights without having to display a blue screen with 'Not available' in ROI. As far as I can remember Sky have never had to do this and I just cannot see BT Sport ever wanting to have to do it again after the present EL TV contract ends.

Again, what BT might want and what the Irish viewer might want might not tally in with what UEFA will be offering.

I'm sure ESPN considered themselves to be a UK and RoI broadcaster too. Heck I'm sure RTÉ would like to be classed as an all-Ireland broadcaster. When it comes to major sporting rights it doesn't always work that way.

Sky have a lot of clout. And you're right, they are an established broadcaster here. And they also have a lot to offer our channels here (doesn't need to be spelt out?).

BT don't have the presence here (yet) or the clout. And probably won't have the capacity to offer anything more than the indigenous broadcasters are already broadcasting - here's yet another thought: would Sky's guarantee to make EVERY match available have also played a part in the agreement to be made available here?

It's funny no matter how much evidence is placed in front of people, and now even RTÉ News have confirmed it for the doubters, people still seem to be convinced that the Irish CL rights are somehow tied up in the announcement made last week!

irishfeen

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

Again, I understand that anyone with an interest would watch those matches, but 3 of the 4 examples you picked wouldn't be worrying the TV exes. The odd man out there would be Bayern v Dortmund, viewing figures for that would be far less than the other three.

If you're not depending on Advertising it wouldn't matter who watched those matches, But for someone like TV3 one bad match in a season could mean a difference between profit and loss. Two bad matches and people would start to sweat. If the viewers aren't there the advertisers won't pay. 10 years ago I used to work for a company that was getting ads at 10 percent of the rate card with certain Irish broadcasters.

Adverts are like hotel rooms, if you don't sweat the asset on the night, you lose the money.

Realistically though you will always see probably at least two big Premier League teams and the two big La Liga teams... all of which at the latter stages would attract massive audience and the rest of the teams would nearly always be European giants too facing the PL/LL teams - Milan, Inter, Juventus, Bayern, Dortmund, PSG etc.

If they couldn't break even at least with rights only costing €1 million then they really should not be in the broadcasting business... these are some of the biggest clubs/matches on the planet - Anyone remotely into football would watch most if not all matches past the last 16.

radiowaves

icdg wrote: »

Indeed, none of really know. There's also the possiblity that, the UK rights being tendered for before the Irish rights, that Sky had already negotiated a stipulation that they would be allowed broadcast their coverage in Ireland, and that the Irish rights were tendered with this in mind. But that's just another possible scenario, we don't really know.

So to steer this back to BT, they're already making noises that their sports channels might not be bundled with their broadband (in the UK) indefinitely, and that customers will have to pay for this somehow:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/telecoms/10439564/BTs-Champions-League-push-to-boost-fibre-broadband.html

Now that's a very interesting article (somehow missed it today so thanks for posting it).

Although the author is speculating in the same way all of us are, this is a drum I've been beating:

This could include discounts or extra matches for superfast fibre broadband customers and those that take the BT Vision TV service.

So, how would that transfer across to an Irish satellite service?

In the meantime there have been fears of PPV raised, again thanks to similar speculation contained within that article.

My guess is extra channels containing the CL matches (ESPN rebranded?) that would be available under an extra tier of subscription.

Again, we will have to wait and see.

icdg

irishfeen wrote: »

I think the shear amount paid means this was always likely... I wonder what's their next big set of rights to go after in the UK? ... Cricket, Golf, F1, England internationals perhaps?

Well, the speculation now is that BT need something to fill their summer schedule, which is very bare at present (pre-season friendlies, AFL, and MLB aren't going to fill the schedule much). Some golf rights come up for bidding soon and they may be the next thing BT goes for. The problem with covering golf of course, is that it ties up a station for up to eight hours four days in a row, but during football and rugby's summer break, when BT don't have much to show, that mightn't be a problem.

England football internationals are mostly tied up in the UEFA European Qualifiers now (held by ITV for England and Sky for everyone else) and those that aren't were sold to ITV separately through to 2018. Virtually the only football ITV has left outside of the major international tournaments, of course. Likewise F1's tied up for a good few years as well.

irishfeen

icdg wrote: »

Well, the speculation now is that BT need something to fill their summer schedule, which is very bare at present (pre-season friendlies, AFL, and MLB aren't going to fill the schedule much). Some golf rights come up for bidding soon and they may be the next thing BT goes for. The problem with covering golf of course, is that it ties up a station for up to eight hours four days in a row, but during football and rugby's summer break, when BT don't have much to show, that mightn't be a problem.

England football internationals are mostly tied up in the UEFA European Qualifiers now (held by ITV for England and Sky for everyone else) and those that aren't were sold to ITV separately through to 2018. Virtually the only football ITV has left outside of the major international tournaments, of course. Likewise F1's tied up for a good few years as well.

I suppose the GAA wouldn't be a cheap option to bulk up at least one of the three channels?... it could provide them with over 30 live matches at least.

icdg

irishfeen wrote: »

I suppose the GAA wouldn't be a cheap option to bulk up at least one of the three channels?... it could provide them with over 30 live matches at least.

Premier Sports (aka Setanta) hold the UK rights and to be honest these wouldn't have the mass market that BT Sport are looking for.

Onthe3rdDay

irishfeen wrote: »

Realistically though you will always see probably at least two big Premier League teams and the two big La Liga teams... all of which at the latter stages would attract massive audience and the rest of the teams would nearly always be European giants too facing the PL/LL teams - Milan, Inter, Juventus, Bayern, Dortmund, PSG etc.

If they couldn't break even at least with rights only costing €1 million then they really should not be in the broadcasting business... these are some of the biggest clubs/matches on the planet - Anyone remotely into football would watch most if not all matches past the last 16.

Generally in this country if the team isn't a Premier League team or Celtic people won't watch. There is a exception for the two big Spanish teams as they've gained an audience here recently but otherwise viewing figures for the matches wouldn't even be half the viewing figures for the soaps.

Also ad agencies aren't daft. For example when there's a match on at the moment on a Tuesday night do you watch it on Blurry TV3 or on ITV HD. Everyone I know who has access to ITV/UTV HD watches the HD feed.

Of course that all changes in 2015 where TV3 or another broadcaster would be the only ones showing it free to air on the island of Ireland, but it has to be at the right price.

I give out about TV3 all the time, but this is a basic accountancy issue. They need to make a profit to survive and football at that price is a big risk. Other broadcasters in the same sized markets face the same issues.

The big boys in the UK are no different but they can take a financial hit or two. The final of the champions league on ITV last May was a disaster with just 3 and a half million watching on a Saturday Night (The two German teams) Had they rerun an episode of the Cube and the Chase they'd have done a lot better.

irishfeen

icdg wrote: »

Premier Sports (aka Setanta) hold the UK rights and to be honest these wouldn't have the mass market that BT Sport are looking for.

I suppose it would be a very cheap way of obtaining live games and their is a big Irish community across the UK ... i'm sure it would at least break even for them - seems to be working for Premier Sport.

radiowaves

irishfeen wrote: »

I suppose it would be a very cheap way of obtaining live games and their is a big Irish community across the UK ... i'm sure it would at least break even for them - seems to be working for Premier Sport.

But wouldn't that lead to geo-blocking here?

Would BT want to risk mass revolution?

irishfeen

radiowaves wrote: »

But wouldn't that lead to geo-blocking here?

Would BT want to risk mass revolution?

Well Setanta shut down Setanta Sports 1 entirely during the GAA matches now so it wouldn't make much odds.

irishfeen

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

Generally in this country if the team isn't a Premier League team or Celtic people won't watch. There is a exception for the two big Spanish teams as they've gained an audience here recently but otherwise viewing figures for the matches wouldn't even be half the viewing figures for the soaps.

Also ad agencies aren't daft. For example when there's a match on at the moment on a Tuesday night do you watch it on Blurry TV3 or on ITV HD. Everyone I know who has access to ITV/UTV HD watches the HD feed.

Of course that all changes in 2015 where TV3 or another broadcaster would be the only ones showing it free to air on the island of Ireland, but it has to be at the right price.

I give out about TV3 all the time, but this is a basic accountancy issue. They need to make a profit to survive and football at that price is a big risk. Other broadcasters in the same sized markets face the same issues.

The big boys in the UK are no different but they can take a financial hit or two. The final of the champions league on ITV last May was a disaster with just 3 and a half million watching on a Saturday Night (The two German teams) Had they rerun an episode of the Cube and the Chase they'd have done a lot better.

I think its still worth the risk, this is Europe's top club football tournament and its big business ... TV3 and RTÉ are obviously making money at the minute with the said €1 million figure.

radiowaves

irishfeen wrote: »

Well Setanta shut down Setanta Sports 1 entirely during the matches now so it wouldn't make much odds.

I know that mate. I was being facetious (see earlier posts in this thread).

irishfeen

radiowaves wrote: »

I know that mate. I was being facetious (see earlier posts in this thread).

Ah OK :pac:

Onthe3rdDay

irishfeen wrote: »

I think its still worth the risk, this is Europe's top club football tournament and its big business ... TV3 and RTÉ are obviously making money at the minute with the said €1 million figure.

I wouldn't be so sure. I'd assume TV3 break even. Their big money night is Saturday. RTE is far harder to work out. They wouldn't bother with it if they had to depend on advertising alone. The licence fee subsides the coverage. If things go wrong they have the licence fee to fall back on. That's not me complaining. It's a good way of using the licence fee because a large amount of the population want to watch. However, it probably wouldn't make sense to RTE if it had to make an actual profit on the show.

The only Sport I can think of that would make a clear profit for any Station in the Republic at this time is the GAA. It's the right balance of viewers and cost. All the rest either lack the viewers or cost too much.

energy1942

I rang BT sport this evening & was told that CL & Europa league football will be shown in ROI but whether other broadcasters will show games has yet to be determined, however this should be known by the end of the year. BT sport told me they will show all their sport in ROI in the future.

The Cush

energy1942 wrote: »

but whether other broadcasters will show games has yet to be determined, however this should be known by the end of the year.

It won't be known by the end of the year, it hasn't been tendered for yet.

radiowaves

energy1942 wrote: »

I rang BT sport this evening & was told that CL & Europa league football will be shown in ROI but whether other broadcasters will show games has yet to be determined, however this should be known by the end of the year. BT sport told me they will show all their sport in ROI in the future.

Who exactly were you speaking to and how would they know?

Did you ask why the PR at the weekend only mentioned the UK?

energy1942

radiowaves wrote: »

Who exactly were you speaking to and how would they know?

Did you ask why the PR at the weekend only mentioned the UK?

I spoke to customer services and was told all of BT sports programmes will be shown in future as in the UK, but that other channels may show CL & Europa league football, but this will not be known until later this year.

radiowaves

energy1942 wrote: »

I spoke to customer services and was told all of BT sports programmes will be shown in future as in the UK, but that other channels may show CL & Europa league football, but this will not be known until later this year.

Irish rights won't be decided this year...

And the Press Release?

And their website too only mentions UK, didn't you ask why?

Onthe3rdDay

radiowaves wrote: »

Irish rights won't be decided this year...

And the Press Release?

And their website too only mentions UK, didn't you ask why?

To be fair Customer service departments are either reading from a script or they're told to bluff.

energy1942

radiowaves wrote: »

Irish rights won't be decided this year...

And the Press Release?

And their website too only mentions UK, didn't you ask why?

I think you are missing the point, BT sport will show all their football in ROI.

As I understand it, Rte, Setanta & Tv3 have never had exclusive rights to the CL in ROI, and don't bid for exclusive rights in ROI, This has only happened with the Europa league.

radiowaves

energy1942 wrote: »

I think you are missing the point, BT sport will show all their football in ROI.

As I understand it, Rte, Setanta & Tv3 have never had exclusive rights to the CL in ROI, and don't bid for exclusive rights in ROI, This has only happened with the Europa league.

So, you believe that this huge media corporation, who have paid Public Relations Officers, actually managed to miss out a whole country that they intend to broadcast to in their "massive coup" PR at the weekend?

Their own website hasn't trumpeted the fact that they will now be able to broadcast Europa League into Ireland despite being blocked at present?

"Their" website in Ireland (Setanta) hasn't thought to mention it? I'm sure they'd be first to put one up to Sky?

Despite them missing so many chances to trumpet the fact they've got rights for Ireland you're going to take the word of one person in Customer Relations?

I'm just looking at the evidence. Are you?

As for your last point, only one broadcaster can hold "exclusivity". Neither the CL or EL fall under that banner in Ireland.