Which caliber for deer ?

LIFFY FISHING

Hi lads as above, I know about .243 .308 &220 /50 but what other calibers should I consider, thinking about a deer rifle & I dont want to get rid of my .223 as I have to much work done to it( I know that my .223 is not deer legal)

zeissman

LIFFY FISHING wrote: »

Hi lads as above, I know about .243 .308 &220 /50 but what other calibers should I consider, thinking about a deer rifle & I dont want to get rid of my .223 as I have to much work done to it( I know that my .223 is not deer legal)

I use a 6.5x55 and like it.
Other popular calibers are the 25-06, 260 rem, 7mm-08, 270, and 30-06.
They all do the job well so your choice may come down to the cost and availability of ammo and rifles.
If I ever decide to change I would fancy a light 20" barrel rifle in 7mm-08.

LIFFY FISHING

zeissman wrote: »

I use a 6.5x55 and like it.
Other popular calibers are the 25-06, 260 rem, 7mm-08, 270, and 30-06.
They all do the job well so your choice may come down to the cost and availability of ammo and rifles.
If I ever decide to change I would fancy a light 20" barrel rifle in 7mm-08.

Why would you change caliber just for info pls

zeissman

LIFFY FISHING wrote: »

Why would you change caliber just for info pls

Probably wont ever change but sometimes I get the urge to try something different. I know the 7mm-08 will still give good velocity from a short barrel so if I was to build a lightweight hunting rifle on a short action thats the caliber id choose.

Tommy87

Have a look at this

steyrman2

Tommy87 wrote: »

Have a look at this

Hi the above calibers are just a rough guide as laws have changed you can have a deer hunting licence with .223 and .220 swift lads have them and the same with 22.250 and 5.6-57 last two great rounds in the right hands and used for years when we had nothing else . Dont fall into the trap of asking every tom ,dick and harry if there are a few of your buddys that stalk as them also you could get out with them for a shot it would be far better than lads telling you what to do . And yes i have had most of the calibers .223,swift,22-250,5.6-57.along with .270 .308 and .300 wm

Cass

zeissman wrote: »

I use a 6.5x55 and like it.

+1

Used it for years, and it was fantastic. Only reason i changed was i used the .308 for target work, and deer. Dual purpose rifle. If i hadn't i would still be using the 6.5x55.

steyrman2 wrote: »

........... as laws have changed you can have a deer hunting licence with .223 and .220 swift lads have them and the same with 22.250 and 5.6-57 last two great rounds in the right hands and used for years when we had nothing else .............

The 22/250 and 5.6x57 are deer legal just not recommended. So legal.

The Swift (220) is legal as it makes the minimum energy with 55 or 60gr bullets, but there is no way the .223 is deer legal. It cannot make the 1,700 ft/lb minimum required for a bullet/caliber to be classed as deer legal. So if anyone has a license for deer on a .223 it's a mistake, and possibly illegal.

The only exception to that would be a .223 WSSM. However it is not common rifle, not a common round, and not readily or easily available (if at all in Ireland). It produces approx. 1,800 ft/lb. Just legal.

I've often said it before. Why go for the smallest caliber. Got for one that works, and is easily capable of making the legal limit.

I agree with Zeissman. 6.5x55 or 7mm-08. Also the 300 WinMag or the 30-06 as alternates. However with the 30-06 & 300 WinMag there is a huge amount of energy, but can be costly to run, and is massive "overkill" on foxes (in off season) to the extent that the bullet passes straight through them. Plus get either caliber iin a light barrel, and it's a one possibly two shot rifle. My Sauer in 30-06 would climb if more than 2 shots were fired consecutively.

rowa

The 7x57 is a very good round and is getting popular even in america, you can also get the milsurp ammo for off season practice or fox shooting.

Cass

You could also look into a 6.5x47 but the issue with these as with so many of the "exotic" calibers is ammo availability. I know some dealers that stock a limited supply of these calibers, but even if you can get them we all know how some rifles won't shoot certain bullets, weights, etc.

rowa

Cass wrote: »

You could also look into a 6.5x47 but the issue with these as with so many of the "exotic" calibers is ammo availability. I know some dealers that stock a limited supply of these calibers, but even if you can get them we all know how some rifles won't shoot certain bullets, weights, etc.

Thats the thing though cass, a dealer i know sells a huge amount of 7x57 to the military reenactors and always has it in stock.

Cass

That is grand, and would be a good choice so. All i was saying is be careful of the caliber you go for. No point going for a caliber only to find ammo choice is miniscule or non existent.

That is the reason why the common calibers such as .308, .243, .270, etc. are all so popular. inability to reload, and dealers not stocking them at all or much of a selection.

clivej

Do as I did.

Go into the dealers gun room and see what range of ammo he has on the shelf.
Of all the ammo see what different heads they stock for a particular caliber.

That how I chose my 308. Plenty of different ammo and all the dealers have it in stock.

fathersymes

I had a 6.5x55, never had any problems knocking deer with it but regularly heard critical hearsay about its limitations.

Here's why:

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/6.5x55.html

Theres also plenty of good info there on other calibres.

Anyway when I'm choosing a new rifle I'd be also thinking about the possibility you may want to do wild boar with it sometime or perhaps a trip to Africa, 7mm rem mag, .308 or 30-06 are the ones to research a bit more.

At the end of the day I think a .308 is the best all rounder.

4gun

fathersymes wrote: »

I had a 6.5x55, never had any problems knocking deer with it but regularly heard critical hearsay about its limitations.

Here's why:

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/6.5x55.html

Theres also plenty of good info there on other calibres.

Anyway when I'm choosing a new rifle I'd be also thinking about the possibility you may want to do wild boar with it sometime or perhaps a trip to Africa, 7mm rem mag, .308 or 30-06 are the ones to research a bit more.

At the end of the day I think a .308 is the best all rounder.

Why is it when someone asks for some help in choosing a calibre for shooting deer in Ireland, someone always brings upwild boar and going hunting in africa
no recession for some :rolleyes:

I'd go with what steyrman2 posted above

fathersymes

4gun wrote: »

Why is it when someone asks for some help in choosing a calibre for shooting deer in Ireland, someone always brings upwild boar and going hunting in africa
no recession for some :rolleyes:

Because its all real possibility that someone may want to travel with their gun, I don't jump to the conclusion that because I cant nor can anyone else.

rowa

fathersymes wrote: »

Because its all real possibility that someone may want to travel with their gun, I don't jump to the conclusion that because I cant nor can anyone else.

Also some european countries don't allow the use of rifles below 6.5mm for deer sized game.

patsat

Cass wrote: »

You could also look into a 6.5x47 but the issue with these as with so many of the "exotic" calibers is ammo availability. I know some dealers that stock a limited supply of these calibers, but even if you can get them we all know how some rifles won't shoot certain bullets, weights, etc.

Is there factory hunting ammo available for the 6.5x47??

fathersymes

rowa wrote: »

Also some european countries don't allow the use of rifles below 6.5mm for deer sized game.

True, most need 2000 Joules of energy at 100m also

rugerman

I've had nearly every calibre from 30 06 to 2250 and I settled on 243 becuse of ammo availability. I've had a deer run from everything except 243 because I have found right ammo to suit and proper placement will knock whey animal some say 6.5 some say 308 I say plenty practice

Cass

patsat wrote: »

Is there factory hunting ammo available for the 6.5x47??

Absolutely no idea lad.

I know of 4 lads in the last year that had one built. Never asked about ammo, and one of them lives in the north so it's not an issue for him.

patsat

Cass wrote: »

Absolutely no idea lad.

I know of 4 lads in the last year that had one built. Never asked about ammo, and one of them lives in the north so it's not an issue for him.

It's just I remember looking up the performance of the round on my ballistic software and whilst there are plenty 6.5 hunting bullets the only ammo it had data was for 4 different weights of lapua Hpbt. Just presuming they would be target rounds.

It's a pity as its a interesting calibre

Sparks

Tommy87 wrote: »

Have a look at this

Ignoring the rest of the thread since it's well outside my area, I still have to say - that's a fecking excellent infographic right there. Nice one whomever drew it up...

Cass

It can be used as a target round, but it would not measure up to the other calibers in it's discipline class.

The lads i know have them as hunting rifles. I'm sure factory could be got, but i've not seen much if any in stock in any dealers i frequent.

Here it is compared to other calibers.

rowa

rugerman wrote: »

I've had nearly every calibre from 30 06 to 2250 and I settled on 243 becuse of ammo availability. I've had a deer run from everything except 243 because I have found right ammo to suit and proper placement will knock whey animal some say 6.5 some say 308 I say plenty practice

There was a debate on an american hunting forum about the .243 really being too small for deer sized game. An old guy said he bought a .243 when they came out first in the 50's and had never used anything else, had taken hundreds of deer with it and never had a problem with wounding etc, the blow hards were scathing, saying he needed the latest super dooper magnum for deer, he simply responded with the video below.

http://youtu.be/hY0w1c-gf18

steyrman2

rowa wrote: »

There was a debate on an american hunting forum about the .243 really being too small for deer sized game. An old guy said he bought a .243 when they came out first in the 50's and had never used anything else, had taken hundreds of deer with it and never had a problem with wounding etc, the blow hards were scathing, saying he needed the latest super dooper magnum for deer, he simply responded with the video below.

http://youtu.be/hY0w1c-gf18

Hi i looked at the clip and a great shot but the guy has a custom bullet and there for can reload more than likely has a custom rifle there is a massive advantage over normal deer stalkers rifle and choice of ammo here no matter what cal we are using the guys reloading will get a lot more out of there gun imo

clivej

Tommy87 wrote: »

Have a look at this

Whats not been talked about is the action size.

Of the ammo above only the .20-250, .243 and .308 are short action rifles the rest being long action.

Plenty of whack out'a the .308 :):)

LIFFY FISHING

Its great to see the interest and information thats been offered from what I thought would be a one or two comment reply, all info been digested.
Tks lads.

One shot on kill

clivej wrote: »

Whats not been talked about is the action size.

Of the ammo above only the .20-250, .243 and .308 are short action rifles the rest being long action.

Plenty of whack out'a the .308 :):)

Action size I'm a little bit curious but not sure what the term means.

At a guess is it the distance the bolt has to move.

juice1304

It is the size of the action or receiver based on the size of the cartridge being used. A long action is longer to accommodate longer cartridges like 300wm .270 etc.. and the short is for .308 .223 etc..

tac foley

fathersymes wrote: »

I had a 6.5x55, never had any problems knocking deer with it but regularly heard critical hearsay about its limitations.

Here's why:

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/6.5x55.html

Theres also plenty of good info there on other calibres.

Anyway when I'm choosing a new rifle I'd be also thinking about the possibility you may want to do wild boar with it sometime or perhaps a trip to Africa, 7mm rem mag, .308 or 30-06 are the ones to research a bit more.

At the end of the day I think a .308 is the best all rounder.

It always seems odd to me that folks are of the opinion that the ability to drop a large beast with X-calibre in one location means that elswhere it is totally useless with THEIR local game. Back in 1990 I dropped an elk in Normark that needed culling before winter caused him to starve to death. He was old and gaspy, showing front ribs and was plainly suffering, and was probably grateful when I put a 140gr Norma through his heart from about 60m. He weighed in at a tad over 1000 pounds in his starving state.

One single shot from a 6.5x55 from a carbine did the job for him, the way that the 6.5x55 had been doing the job on his ancestors since 1896.

No doubt that that 7x57 would have done the same thing.

Old doesn't mean past it.

tac

tac foley

Cass wrote: »

Absolutely no idea lad.

I know of 4 lads in the last year that had one built. Never asked about ammo, and one of them lives in the north so it's not an issue for him.

6.5x47 Lapua



The ideal choice for extreme accuracy. The 6.5x47 Lapua is a cartridge designed for serious competition shooting. Lapua developed the 6.5x47 in conjunction with a Swiss rifle manufacturer, Grunig & Elmiger. The chamber and throat dimensions are optimized for target bullets. The 6.5x47 Lapua is CIP approved.










Basically, unless you live in the North of the island, you're stuck with a target bullet.

tac

Cass

A good alternative i was talking to another member about is the .260 Remington. Plenty of choices for hunting ammo, and also good for target.

rowa

tac foley wrote: »

No doubt that that 7x57 would have done the same thing.

Old doesn't mean past it.

tac

Karamojo bell certainly thought the same of the 7x57/.275 rigby.

http://www.africanhuntinggazette.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=24&Itemid=25

tac foley

As did Courtney Selous and many thousands of others. My own 7x57 Model B Mauser lived in Rhodesia between 1913 and 1990.

tac

rowa

tac foley wrote: »

As did Courtney Selous and many thousands of others. My own 7x57 Model B Mauser lived in Rhodesia between 1913 and 1990.

tac

The mauser chambered in 7x57 is of course the rifle that opened the americans eyes and changed their out look during the spanish american war.
Back on topic , to me the 7x57 is probabily the ideal deer round.

tac foley

rowa wrote: »

The mauser chambered in 7x57 is of course the rifle that opened the americans eyes and changed their out look during the spanish american war.
Back on topic , to me the 7x57 is probabily the ideal deer round.

Far be it from me to bring up past conflicts on this forum, but the British, Australians and Canadians also had the hardest time imaginable down in Sarth Effrica when they had Round 2 with the Boers. Remarkably fine shots at the best of times, they came into their own as guerilla forces with their independent spirit and the will to make the British pay dearly for every foot of the land. Flat-shooting and smokeless, the 7x57 was an appalling wake-up call for an army trained to fight in large groups of convenient targets.

My 1897 Mauser carbine, one of 2000 made in that year for the ZAR, was grudgingly surrendered by its owner, one Piet Huijsen, when he was taken prisoner after the battle of Korannafontein in May 1901. It shows signs of hard use, too.

Now, back to deer-hunting....

tac

tomcat220t

tac foley wrote: »

It always seems odd to me that folks are of the opinion that the ability to drop a large beast with X-calibre in one location means that elswhere it is totally useless with THEIR local game. Back in 1990 I dropped an elk in Normark that needed culling before winter caused him to starve to death. He was old and gaspy, showing front ribs and was plainly suffering, and was probably grateful when I put a 140gr Norma through his heart from about 60m. He weighed in at a tad over 1000 pounds in his starving state.

One single shot from a 6.5x55 from a carbine did the job for him, the way that the 6.5x55 had been doing the job on his ancestors since 1896.

No doubt that that 7x57 would have done the same thing.

Old doesn't mean past it.

tac

Hi Tac,140gr norma in `6.5x55 would be a little slow for most irish deer ,imo.Not saying it would not do the job but the norma 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip is one of the best choices in the 6.5x55 for irish deer ,imo.
So one round that may drop Large game else where, might not be best suited for our small game deer .

As for 6.5x47 & .260 ....the 6.5x55 is every bit the equal or better in terms of hunting only without been suited to a short action .
Regards ,Tomcat .

tac foley

tomcat220t wrote: »

Hi Tac,140gr norma in `6.5x55 would be a little slow for most irish deer ,imo.Not saying it would not do the job but the norma 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip is one of the best choices in the 6.5x55 for irish deer ,imo.
So one round that may drop Large game else where, might not be best suited for our small game deer .

As for 6.5x47 & .260 ....the 6.5x55 is every bit the equal or better in terms of hunting only without been suited to a short action .
Regards ,Tomcat .

- The Elk (US: moose) is the largest big game in Norway. With bulls weighing up to 700kg, it lives up to it´s name king of the forest. Large bulls can be up to 175cm over the withers. Elk is usually hunted with dogs. The dogs are either kept on leash and just used to locate animals or let loose, similar to roe deer hunting. The difference between the two is that the elk will stay put and try to fight of the dog rather than to run away. Whilst the elk is distracted by the dog, the hunter sneaks up. The dogs are to small to attack the elk, and will only bark at them and annoy them. Last year, 38.000 elk was shot in Norway, 54% males and 46% females.

Seems that that good old 6.5x55 is till doing the biz on them moosies/elg, the majority of which were shot with the 6.5x55, followed by 30-06 and then 9.3x74 and others.

I guess that your stringy deer need a different kind of bullet?

tac

tomcat220t

Hi Tac,.
Large Game = ELK @ up to 700kg
Small Game = sika @ around 30-50 kg
Would you think the same bullet would best suit both game ?
Regards ,Tomcat.

tac foley

tomcat220t wrote: »

Hi Tac,.
Large Game = ELK @ up to 700kg
Small Game = sika @ around 30-50 kg
Would you think the same bullet would best suit both game ?
Regards ,Tomcat.

Certainly not. When you wrote 'deer' I naturally thought you meant 'deer' as in something rather larger than one of our young Newfoundlander pups.:D

tac

tomcat220t

tac foley wrote: »

Certainly not. When you wrote 'deer' I naturally thought you meant 'deer' as in something rather larger than one of our young Newfoundlander pups.:D

tac

Hi tac ,all im saying is a heavy/ slow bullet ..6.5x55 140gr -160gr + might work well on(big game) moose at close range but not what id be looking for as an ideal round for irish deer .Deep Penetration designed bullets(6.5x55 norma 140gr nosler partition) at slow speed is the last thing i look for to use on small game ,imo.

Where as the 6.5x55norma 120gr bst is faster and ballistic tip , better suited to thin skin small game and works well on irish deer .
Regards,Tomcat.

sikastag

Hi tomcat,

Bit off thread here, how do you find those ballitic tip normas for meat damage?

tomcat220t

Hi Tac, have you shot irish deer with a 6.5x55 norma 140gr ?
Regards ,Tomcat .

TriggerPL

tac foley wrote: »

Yes, thank you, I think I understand what you are saying here. Basically, it's that I'm a moron. Not a problem, I assure you, I'm used to being taken for a moron. It must be my one-eyebrow and sloping forehead appearance. Simply a matter of not understanding how small your deer were by comparison....

So let's just make sure I have it right -

Big S...L...O...W bullet for BIG game.

Small FAST bullet for SMALLER game.

Yup, I think I have it now.

tac, ex-Expert Witness on firearms and related subjects to the UK Justiciary, PSNI and, occasionally, AGS

Do ya know who shot JFK by any chance or is area 52 real ! 6.5x 55 will drop any Irish deer regardless of type of bullet! The gr is a personal choice !

Frankly op u have a .223 so go for something heavy like .270 .308 .300win great selection out there for them !

tac foley

tomcat220t wrote: »

Hi Tac, have you shot irish deer with a 6.5x55 norma 140gr ?
Regards ,Tomcat .

Nope. Nor ever likely to, either.

Don't recall ever seeing an Irish deer, either. Seen plenty of moosies though. Guess they're not much like them, eh?

Don't go over to Ireland much, me. I was banned from going for so long I guess that it got to be a habit, even when the ban was lifted.

tac

tomcat220t

tac foley wrote: »

Nope. Nor ever likely to, either.

Don't recall ever seeing an Irish deer, either. Seen plenty of moosies though. Guess they're not much like them, eh?

Don't go over to Ireland much, me. I was banned from going for so long I guess that it got to be a habit, even when the ban was lifted.

tac

Hi Tac ,so your not an expert on irish deer then?? ..well neither am i so calm down a little about your so called expert past ,please.
All i saying is what ive seen and used the 6.5x55 and works very well with the 120gr norma on deer where as the slower heavier 6.5x55 round dont do so well .Most shooters i know who that use the 6.5x55 are prepared to spent around 55 euro on the 120 norma rather than the cheaper hornady,federal ect... OP wasnt looking to shoot moose
Regards ,Tomcat .

tac foley

It's not so-called, it's a matter of public record, and nope, I know nothing about Irish deer that I haven't just read.

I was only making the point that the old 6.5x55 with the appropriate bullet will do as well as any modern cartridge.

As of course will the old 7x57 Mauser...

tac

TriggerPL

tomcat220t wrote: »

Hi Tac ,so your not an expert on irish deer then?? ..well neither am i so calm down a little about your so called expert past ,please.
All i saying is what ive seen and used the 6.5x55 and works very well with the 120gr norma on deer where as the slower heavier 6.5x55 round dont do so well .Most shooters i know who that use the 6.5x55 are prepared to spent around 55 euro on the 120 norma rather than the cheaper hornady,federal ect... OP wasnt looking to shoot moose
Regards ,Tomcat .

Or armered land rovers !

tomcat220t

tac foley wrote: »

It's not so-called, it's a matter of public record, and nope, I know nothing about Irish deer that I haven't just read.

I was only making the point that the old 6.5x55 with the appropriate bullet will do as well as any modern cartridge.

As of course will the old 7x57 Mauser...

tac

Hi Tac ,the .270 win(130gr) with a short 20" barrel and light can 7.5lbs stalking rifle/ scoped , is the simple answer to the OPs question
P/S i dont think your any kind of moron ... as for your one eyebrow :P
Regards,Tomcat.

tomcat220t

sikastag wrote: »

Hi tomcat,

Bit off thread here, how do you find those ballitic tip normas for meat damage?

Hi Sika, not bad meat damage ,imo.
Regards ,Tomcat.

sikahuntejack

All my deer were shot with my 22.250 60g bullets from 50 yards to 300 yards only missed i deer this season was going to change for a 243 at the begining of the season dont see any point now will try a 400 yard shot when i get a chance