No coverage of some games for N.I.

P_1

awec wrote: »

Is the argument moot though? Sky presumably got exclusive rights to broadcast in the UK. The UK includes NI.

Unless the IRFU stipulated to Sky that the BBC would be allowed to simultaneously broadcast on FTA for NI viewers only, then I don't think there's anything the BBC can do.

I think the only thing the BBC could have done was to have made a more convincing bid for the rights, nothing that they can realistically do at this stage I would have thought.

jacothelad

ardmacha wrote: »

I suspect the BBC lacked the flexibility to do the deal required here. BBC NI has somewhat different needs, but these are not taken into account. For instance, local NI programmes are geoblocked on the Internet from ROI IP numbers when there is no need for this and I doubt that anyone argued that this was necessary, they just haven't taken a flexible approach. To broadcast only terrestrially, rather than on satellite, is technically easy to achieve but they haven't the flexibility to do this.

BBC NI have a very small budget and when it comes to sport it's even smaller. If they spend £1 on rugby they have to spend £1 on GAA and £1 on soccer otherwise there is weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth though in fact they spend most of their budget on pathetic soccer games watched by 3 men waving 'flegs' of one kind or another. As for BBC signals being unnecessarily blocked on the Net, it's exactly the same with RTE who block their signals to U.K. IP addresses. Are you suggesting that it's bad of the BBC but good by RTE? Doesn't really make sense. There are actual contractual issues that broadcasters have to face on who can actually recieve their shows. If BBC show a syndicated series they have to pay for it. They can't just show it in Ireland otherwise all sorts of legal issues would ensue. It's exactly the same in reverse. Suppose RTE show a high cost and popular series such as CSi and the like and simply allow anyone witha t.v. to watch it in the U.K. there would be hell - and lots of cash - to pay. None of this is the real issue though. The IRFU are charged by us to look after rugby in our name. We trust them (?) to raise the money needed. We are the IRFU - all of us. The simple fact is this, if the IRFU had been able to make a superior deal financially that would have seen these games available on FTA in N.I. but only on Sky pay t.v. in the ROI they wouldn't have dared to do it. They don't have a mandate or a remit to exclude almost 30% of the population. If they had made a deal with Sky for the whole of the island the IRFU would have made more money. Even the amount of money as it is from Sky isn't that huge. £1,000,000 p.a. The equivalent of about 11,500 subscribers dosh

awec

TBH I think the majority of BBCNI's sport budget goes on sending Stephen Watson around the world to play golf or talk to Rory McIlroy. :pac:

I don't begrudge soccer in the north coverage, though in recent years they have started putting the highlights online. I wouldn't be against them scrapping the 5 oclock show on Saturdays to save some budget and put the content online instead which is bound to be cheaper.

Digifriendly

Think that we should simply move on and take the right steps if we're going to be affected by this i.e. if we live in NI put an aerial up to get Saorview or if that's not possible put a dish up and get Saorsat. At least these options are open to us. In England as I pointed out earlier in order to watch England live in the AI's you have to subscribe to Sky. That's not the case here. As a rugby fan in NI I'm grateful for RTE's coverage.

P_1

Digifriendly wrote: »

Think that we should simply move on and take the right steps if we're going to be affected by this i.e. if we live in NI put an aerial up to get Saorview or if that's not possible put a dish up and get Saorsat. At least these options are open to us. In England as I pointed out earlier in order to watch England live in the AI's you have to subscribe to Sky. That's not the case here. As a rugby fan in NI I'm grateful for RTE's coverage.

Interesting question, what would be cheaper?:
A - Getting Sky
B - Getting Saorsat

If you can pick up Saorview through your normal TV (most Freeview branded TVscan pick up Saorview if the signal in your area is strong enough) then there is no need for either option

jm08

awec wrote: »

Is the argument moot though? Sky presumably got exclusive rights to broadcast in the UK. The UK includes NI.

Unless the IRFU stipulated to Sky that the BBC would be allowed to simultaneously broadcast on FTA for NI viewers only, then I don't think there's anything the BBC can do.

From what I remember (previous debates over braodcasting rights), Sky will only buy exclusive rights in a country. They may sell them on to a FTA provider for delayed viewing, but that will be several hours later.

The BBC could at least bid for these delayed rights.

PhatPiggins

Deleted User wrote: »

Someone write a good letter and we should bombard the IRFU with it.

Absolute disgrace

This weeks talking rugby podcast. 72 mins in. William is sensational.

Thomond if you can reproduce a shortened version with just Williams piece I personally promise you I'll email it to the IRFU 1,000 times.

irishbucsfan

For Paws wrote: »

I think it was Peter Frampton who said (Signed, Sealed, Delivered) I'm yours.

Was it not Stevie Wonder? And his mother came up with the hook?

I dont see how this discussion can progress until we get this issue nailed down

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Someone write a good letter and we should bombard the IRFU with it.

Absolute disgrace

PhatPiggins wrote: »

This weeks talking rugby podcast. 72 mins in. William is sensational.

Thomond if you can reproduce a shortened version with just Williams piece I personally promise you I'll email it to the IRFU 1,000 times.

I think paper / envelopes / stamps etc make a far bigger impression.

I'm certainly willing to print and sign an open letter and post it to IRFU HQ.

If someone wants to get William's thoughts from the show onto paper, especially some of the cold hard facts re IRFU's ignorance of the game 'beyond the border', I'd much appreciate it.


(We also need a trendy hashtag, the previous one worked wonders)

totallegend

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Was it not Stevie Wonder? And his mother came up with the hook?

I dont see how this discussion can progress until we get this issue nailed down

Yeah, it p*sses me off when people go down irrelevant tangents so back on topic now:

They're two separate songs; Stevie Wonder wrote "Signed Sealed Delivered I'm Yours" and it's by far the better known of the two, but James Brown had a minor hit with "Signed, Sealed and Delivered", a quality tune.

I don't know where Peter Frampton comes in, but Wikipedia tells me that journeyman boyband Blue did a cover of the Stevie Wonder song in 2003.



<shudder>

Digifriendly

P_1 wrote: »

Interesting question, what would be cheaper?:
A - Getting Sky
B - Getting Saorsat

If you can pick up Saorview through your normal TV (most Freeview branded TVscan pick up Saorview if the signal in your area is strong enough) then there is no need for either option

Saorsat is obviously cheaper option as it does not have a subscription (unlike Sky) so installation costs only for it.
As you point out if your TV is compatible i.e. if it is a FreeviewHD set then you should pick up Saorview if the signal is strong enough (estimated that this is the case for 75%-80% of NI) and you have the proper ariel for Saorview.

Digifriendly

Digifriendly wrote: »

Saorsat is obviously cheaper option as it does not have a subscription (unlike Sky) so installation costs only for it.
As you point out if your TV is compatible i.e. if it is a FreeviewHD set then you should pick up Saorview if the signal is strong enough (estimated that this is the case for 75%-80% of NI) and you have the proper ariel for Saorview.

Based on the NImux being operational, which it will need to not be for RTÉ to comply!

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/how-do-i-get-tg4-rte-one-and-rte-two

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1746695

Here's the RTÉ spillover graph http://maps.techtir.com/images/rte-all-dtt.gif

----

Saorsat seems to be an option, but their website even says its a rubbish service, and should only be used if all other avenues are fruitless

http://www.saorview.ie/about-saorview/saorsat/

RTÉNL recommends that each home should exhaust all options for receiving SAORVIEW before reverting to SAORSAT.

However, it SAORtainly isn't Saor

Summary of average SAORSAT costs:

SAORSAT box: €80-100
Standard Installation cost including dish and LNBF: €200
Additional LNBF for free-to-air: €35

(I realise the installation is straightforward as have installed one previously, but what about those less proficient / able in DIY )

ardmacha

Are you suggesting that it's bad of the BBC but good by RTE? Doesn't really make sense. There are actual contractual issues that broadcasters have to face on who can actually recieve their shows. If BBC show a syndicated series they have to pay for it.

I was referring to locally produced BBC NI programmes, not drama series and the like. I accept that drama series have value, but the public value of sports, or documentaries on horse burgers or Sean Quinn might warrant not blocking the iPlayer in the Republic. And of course the vast majority of RTE programmes are available on the net in NI.

But as noted by several posters, it is not clear what the BBC proposed in this case.

The Cush

Digifriendly wrote: »

should pick up Saorview if the signal is strong enough (estimated that this is the case for 75%-80% of NI) and you have the proper ariel for Saorview.

Both Ofcom and RTÉNL estimate Saorview overspill reaches between 56-60% of the population, probably a conservative figure Together with the NImux coverage is estimated at 95% population coverage.

Gargled

2 points-

Firstly, why not turn this into an opportunity. Organize a day out at your local rugby club, put money behind its bar helping develop rugby in your area. Set the grassroots going for the next Paddy Jacksons. Plenty of Ireland 'fans' who have never stepped inside a rugby club.

Secondly, international rugby is a highly competitive market financially. Each country is fighting to get money in as well as results on the pitch. TV deals are incredibly lucritive. If sky offered the RFU £5 million for rights, would we not be incredibly foolish not to match them. While it does put people out for 2/3 friendlies, it puts a wad of cash in the coffers so that come 6N or RWC time we can produce something worth watching

They are actually decent solutions for the problem.

The main issue people have is that the problem shouldn't have even been entertained. You can't split your members like this without fallout.

jacothelad

Gargled wrote: »

2 points-

Firstly, why not turn this into an opportunity. Organize a day out at your local rugby club, put money behind its bar helping develop rugby in your area. Set the grassroots going for the next Paddy Jacksons. Plenty of Ireland 'fans' who have never stepped inside a rugby club.

Secondly, international rugby is a highly competitive market financially. Each country is fighting to get money in as well as results on the pitch. TV deals are incredibly lucritive. If sky offered the RFU £5 million for rights, would we not be incredibly foolish not to match them. While it does put people out for 2/3 friendlies, it puts a wad of cash in the coffers so that come 6N or RWC time we can produce something worth watching

Again, it's not about the money or RTE or Sky etc. Lots do as you say, go to the pub, go to the local club but the point is just like Sean in Limerick or Patrick in Galway, Billy in Ballymena should be able to watch the game free to air just like his 'brothers' in his own home if that is his wish or if he is unable to go elsewhere to see the games. The IRFU has inserted a division in the island of Ireland's rugby community that previously didn't exist (except in the minds of the dim witted). We are now a two speed, two class Union. One island, one team, every one equal. Well they've shat all over that.

awec

I've never been inside my local club up home. Not sure they even open for games, I know that if they do they certainly don't advertise the fact anywhere.

Only time I ever set foot in the grounds of it was in my younger days when we sneaked in to play football.

I think there would be plenty of people who are rugby fans (at Rabo level anyway) but who have never played the sport and therefore have little affiliation or contact with a local club.

Teferi

I'd add that you don't need to play or be a club member to be a fan of rugby either. It's a bit of a snobby mindset that I don't like.

OldRio

Do not be sidelined.
Not Sky or BBCNI.
Only one organisation to blame the IRFU.

bm_1212

i suppose it could be considered similar to when the FAI sold the rights to the ROI friendly games to sky a few years back.It made me angry at the time but it was pointed out to me that it was a no win situation for the FAI.


they refuse skys money and they accused of lack of ambition, lack of investment in the future.
They accept skys money and they accused of alienating the supporters.

they did however agree a delayed highlights package

P_1

jacothelad wrote: »

Again, it's not about the money or RTE or Sky etc. Lots do as you say, go to the pub, go to the local club but the point is just like Sean in Limerick or Patrick in Galway, Billy in Ballymena should be able to watch the game free to air just like his 'brothers' in his own home if that is his wish or if he is unable to go elsewhere to see the games. The IRFU has inserted a division in the island of Ireland's rugby community that previously didn't exist (except in the minds of the dim witted). We are now a two speed, two class Union. One island, one team, every one equal. Well they've shat all over that.

Exactly, one of the more refreshing things about rugby in Ireland is that there is none of the sectarian/where are you from bullschit that I detest associated with it.

By signing this deal the IRFU have created a potential source for this bullschit and that is just not on

P_1

bm_1212 wrote: »

i suppose it could be considered similar to when the FAI sold the rights to the ROI friendly games to sky a few years back.It made me angry at the time but it was pointed out to me that it was a no win situation for the FAI.


they refuse skys money and they accused of lack of ambition, lack of investment in the future.
They accept skys money and they accused of alienating the supporters.

they did however agree a delayed highlights package

It's nothing to do with that to be fair. When the FAI signed that deal it didn't matter where on the island you were from, you had to buy sky to watch the matches. Yes it was a schit deal, but we all got the schit deal equally. The IRFU's deal will create a divide.

jacothelad

bm_1212 wrote: »

i suppose it could be considered similar to when the FAI sold the rights to the ROI friendly games to sky a few years back.It made me angry at the time but it was pointed out to me that it was a no win situation for the FAI.


they refuse skys money and they accused of lack of ambition, lack of investment in the future.
They accept skys money and they accused of alienating the supporters.

they did however agree a delayed highlights package

The IRFU did refuse Sky's money. They would have made far more than RTE could pay by going with an exclusive, All Ireland deal with Sky. Why do you think they didn't do that? Because the uproar would have bee rightly explosive. Shamefully, they kicked rugby in the balls by their cretinous actions. The clowns who did this know they are relatively secure hiding down in Lansdowne. None of the 'fearless' coterie of 'Yes Men' who make up rugby journalism in Ireland would dare challenge the IRFU. If they did they would quickly find that their accessibility to the team and to the perks and hospitality withdrawn.

formerly scottish paddy

Fans from BOTH sides of the border should make a protest at the game against France on the 9th March. Let the IRFU know what we think about this, no division in rugby coverage, no blocking of RTE in N.I. :mad:

I have attached a link to Ofcom map of coverage in Northern Ireland:
http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/files/2012/07/NIMuxFactsheet4.pdf

totallegend

bm_1212 wrote: »

i suppose it could be considered similar to when the FAI sold the rights to the ROI friendly games to sky a few years back.It made me angry at the time but it was pointed out to me that it was a no win situation for the FAI.


they refuse skys money and they accused of lack of ambition, lack of investment in the future.
They accept skys money and they accused of alienating the supporters.

they did however agree a delayed highlights package

While this is a fair point, it's also a different situation in that the FAI is a 26-county organisation that sold the rights in the 26 counties.

I think the point here is that the IRFU is a 32-country organisation that cut one deal for its fans in the Republic and another, less favourable deal for its fans in the north. (There were always two deals of course, one with RTE and one with BBC but no one set of fans was at a disadvantage).

From my own point of view, I would have no problem with everyone having to watch on Sky*; it's a professional sport and it needs money coming in. That's the reality, but the IRFU have just handled it badly.

[*But if it meant having to listen to Mark Robson for internationals, I'd go f**king ballistic.]

Losty Dublin

bm_1212 wrote: »

i suppose it could be considered similar to when the FAI sold the rights to the ROI friendly games to sky a few years back.It made me angry at the time but it was pointed out to me that it was a no win situation for the FAI.


they refuse skys money and they accused of lack of ambition, lack of investment in the future.
They accept skys money and they accused of alienating the supporters.

they did however agree a delayed highlights package

If I remember rightly, Sky offered about 6 times what RTE were offering. It was only when Bertie Ahern intervened and created up an events list that RTE got coverage again and even then it was after a vastly improved offer to what they assumed they'd pay (Brendan Menton's book, Beyond The Green Door has a good description of how RTE screwed up their long standing deal simply from complacency and assuming moral rights to live coverage.) If, as has been mooted on here, it that Sky have paid £1 million per match and if BBC NI assumed they'd still have rights then we can see why the IRFU talked to them about a deal.

formerly scottish paddy

totallegend wrote: »

I think the point here is that the IRFU is a 32-country organisation that cut one deal for its fans in the Republic and another, less favourable deal for its fans in the north. (There were always two deals of course, one with RTE and one with BBC but no one set of fans was at a disadvantage).

It was one thing not doing a deal with the BBC but to go and insist on blocking it on RTE in N.I. is particularly miserable! How little money would they have lost from allowing that? :mad:

thomond2006

PhatPiggins wrote: »

This weeks talking rugby podcast. 72 mins in. William is sensational.

Thomond if you can reproduce a shortened version with just Williams piece I personally promise you I'll email it to the IRFU 1,000 times.

Here it is:

P_1

Good work Thomond, I've done all the sharing thing on Facebook, is it cool with ye if I were to share it on a few other forums etc?