phoenix park cycle lanes????

markpb

Do the cycle lanes in the park have the proper road signs and markings described by the Road Traffic Acts?

Doctor Bob

monument wrote: »

This is from the Phoenix Park Conservation Management Plan:

The Phoenix Park is also a public place within the meaning of the Road Traffic Acts. As such, An Garda Siochána has a key role in enforcing traffic regulations and in the preservation of order within the Park.

From the Road Traffic Act, 1961:

“public place” means any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;

From the same Act:

“public road” means a road the responsibility for the maintenance of which lies on a road authority;

Public roads aren't mentioned anywhere in the Conservation Management Plan.

***

markpb wrote: »

Do the cycle lanes in the park have the proper road signs and markings described by the Road Traffic Acts?

I'm pretty sure they don't. There are cycle track symbols on the surface of (some of?) the cycle tracks, but most (all?) tracks lack a white line on the right-hand edge.

Lumen

Dotsie~tmp wrote: »

I love cycling in the park. The loop is a great 9k then home. Im not sure why anyone would want to use the patchs or lanes though? Too busy, to starty-stoppy. Road are fairly clear and smooth for good speed.

I use the tracks in and out every day. They're not really slower than the road, except in high summer evenings when they're unusable.

If I'm going much over 30kph I pass people widely, on the grass, so as to avoid surprising/upsetting them.

The problem with using the road is (a) it's against the rules according to the Parkies, and more significantly (b) there is substantial risk of getting doored or taken out by a car doing a u-turn or leaving a parking space without indicating.

99% of peds are well behaved if treated with respect. I once had an old dogwalker deliberately block my path on the cycle lane (he was standing to one side, saw me and stepped into the lane, holding up his palm, commanding me to stop, "you must stop" or something). I resisted the urge to "do a Hinault" and instead just passed him on the grass.

the world wonders

Lumen wrote: »

The problem with using the road is (a) it's against the rules according to the Parkies,

[citation needed]

and more significantly (b) there is substantial risk of getting doored

that's why you take the lane.

or taken out by a car doing a u-turn or leaving a parking space without indicating.

Pedestrians can take you out just as well you know.

Surveyor11

I used to use the Park frequently when I worked in the city centre, the Rangers used to actively direct cyclists onto the cycling lanes during the odd safety blitz. One morning I got a rather patronising lecture about the dangers of cyclists, I pointed out that if pedestrians keep to the 2nd path and leave the cycling lane for cyclists the problem will solve itself.
















(disclaimer - in an ideal world):rolleyes:

detones

I regularly use the park for training spins at lunch time and yes it does my head in when the cycle path is full of pedestrians and buggys. I hate having to venture on To wet grass with road tires. However after going to the zoo with my family the weekend I have a slightly different perspective on the "cycle paths". If you park your car on Chesterfield avenue close to the zoo and try walk towards the zoo with a buggy it is impossible to make your way to the inner footpath because of the steel barrier which has no gaps in it. So the way it has been laid out is misleading for people and only encourages them to use the cycle path well for that section if the road anyway

zipzoc

Surveyor11 wrote: »

I used to use the Park frequently when I worked in the city centre, the Rangers used to actively direct cyclists onto the cycling lanes during the odd safety blitz. One morning I got a rather patronising lecture about the dangers of cyclists, I pointed out that if pedestrians keep to the 2nd path and leave the cycling lane for cyclists the problem will solve itself

I've emailed the OPW many times about this and they've told me that the rangers tell pedestrians to stay out of the cycle lanes but I've never witnessed this myself and I don't believe it for a second. If they really wanted to make the effort they would have repainted the signs long ago and/or added a simple 'cyclists only' sign every now and then.

If this were Berlin, Copenhagen or many other European cities pedestrians wouldn't even think about walking in the cycle lane. I remember once I was standing (by mistake) in a cycle lane in Denmark and I was nearly killed. I made sure to never make that mistake again. It's all too wishy-washy here.

buffalo

Was just through there, the cycle tracks are packed with people on days like this. Just don't bother with them.

BostonB

On a day like the you shouldn't bother with the main paths unless you are just cruising around. Sometimes when theres an event on you can't use the roads or the cycle path theres too many walkers. You have to use the footpath or just go the long way around.

zipzoc

It's just optics on behalf of the OPW. Cycle lanes that nobody can use unless it's very early in the morning or very late at night. Maybe we could organise a 'take back the cycle lane' day where lots of people cycle simultaneously down one side and back up the other?

BostonB

They are not real cycle lanes. So why care. They are free when you need them, for commuting. If you want to go to the park at peak time, like a summer day at the weekend what were you planning to do. speed trials on it. Pick a different route. Its a huge park.

zipzoc

BostonB wrote: »

They are not real cycle lanes. So why care. They are free when you need them, for commuting. If you want to go to the park at peak time, like a summer day at the weekend what were you planning to do. speed trials on it. Pick a different route. Its a huge park.

Well then what's the point in having a cycle lane at all? You're happy with the Irish version obviously.

BostonB

zipzoc wrote: »

Well then what's the point in having a cycle lane at all? You're happy with the Irish version obviously.

But its not a cycle lane.

Someones doodle on the ground does not make it a cycle path.

Irish version ? is that meant to be some kinda insult or something?

zipzoc

BostonB wrote: »

But its not a cycle lane.

Someones doodle on the ground does not make it a cycle path.

Irish version ? is that meant to be some kinda insult or something?

Not an insult to you, sorry if it sounded like that. I just mean a cycle lane that you can only use if someone isn't walking in it is a bit 'Irish'. If it's not a real cycle lane then why paint pictures of bikes in it? And if it is a real cycle lane then why not do it properly?

BostonB

That's a question for the park wardens.

You could consider it for mixed use.

zipzoc

BostonB wrote: »

That's a question for the park wardens.

You could consider it for mixed use.

A mixed use cycle/walking lane? Sounds like a Monty Python sketch.

RacoonQueen

I've only used the cycle lanes in there a handful of times. Always stick to the lane going down Chesterfield. Usually ticking along at 30 at least, at busy times with loads of cars parked and heavy traffic in the other direction cars aren't driving much faster than that anyway.

It baffles me that they didn't put a 'cycle lane' where the cars park and parking spaces further over onto the grass when they were relaying the main road.

At quiet times those empty parking spaces make a great cycle lane.

BostonB

zipzoc wrote: »

A mixed use cycle/walking lane? Sounds like a Monty Python sketch.

Most of the time that's the reality. Works with no problems. It's only a problem when its super busy or people are just pig ignorant. Its not suitable to do the same speed as you'd cycle on the road, as some do. Because its not a road obviously.

Rarely have people not moved over for me when I ring a bell. I bought one especially for the park.

Spook_ie

BostonB wrote: »

Most of the time that's the reality. Works with no problems. It's only a problem when its super busy or people are just pig ignorant. Its not suitable to do the same speed as you'd cycle on the road, as some do. Because its not a road obviously.

Rarely have people not moved over for me when I ring a bell. I bought one especially for the park.

Just a question specifically related to you using a bell to move/make aware slower traffic, if I was beeping my horn to make you aware that as a faster moving vehicle I wanted to pass , would you be as courteous as the walkers and move over or be pig ignorant and just think " I've as much right as he has " ?

buffalo

Spook_ie wrote: »

Just a question specifically related to you using a bell to move/make aware slower traffic, if I was beeping my horn to make you aware that as a faster moving vehicle I wanted to pass , would you be as courteous as the walkers and move over or be pig ignorant and just think " I've as much right as he has " ?

A bike bell is designed to make people aware of your presence, as there is no noise of an engine.

A car horn is warn other road users of on-coming danger, or make them aware of your presence for safety reasons. Overtaking is not a valid reason to use a horn.

Spook_ie

buffalo wrote: »

A bike bell is designed to make people aware of your presence, as there is no noise of an engine.

A car horn is warn other road users of on-coming danger, or make them aware of your presence for safety reasons. Overtaking is not a valid reason to use a horn.

Question wasn't at you but as you've picked up the ball.....

I know exactly what the horn is for, and as stated in the question if I beeped my horn at you in the middle of a bus/cycle lane to make you aware of my presence so that you could facilitate myself making a safer overtaking move, would you? or would you adopt the pig ignorant stance?

Beasty

Spook_ie wrote: »

Question wasn't at you but as you've picked up the ball.....

I know exactly what the horn is for, and as stated in the question if I beeped my horn at you in the middle of a bus/cycle lane to make you aware of my presence so that you could facilitate myself making a safer overtaking move, would you? or would you adopt the pig ignorant stance?

You've been banned for trolling before - do it again and the ban will be a lot longer

Any questions, PM me - do not respond in thread

Thanks

Beasty

Spook_ie

Beasty wrote: »

You've been banned for trolling before - do it again and the ban will be a lot longer

Any questions, PM me - do not respond in thread

Thanks

Beasty

PM sent

zipzoc

Spook_ie wrote: »

Question wasn't at you but as you've picked up the ball.....

I know exactly what the horn is for, and as stated in the question if I beeped my horn at you in the middle of a bus/cycle lane to make you aware of my presence so that you could facilitate myself making a safer overtaking move, would you? or would you adopt the pig ignorant stance?

That's a valid question IMO. I think what the poster is saying is that normally a motorist would not beep his/her horn to make other road users 'aware of their presence' so why should a cyclist be obliged to do just the same in a cycle lane? Of course if a pedestrian walks out in front of you you need to ring your bell or beep your horn. But tonight for example, I was driving in the Phoenix Park and at the Castleknock end there were lots of small groups of people walking in the cycle lane while the 'walking lane' remained unused. Now that's just plain dumb or provocative towards cyclists. I think if the OPW go painting bicycles on the path they should make those paths dedicated cycle lanes. If they're going to paint pictures of bicycles in 'mixed use lanes' then they shouldn't bother. As the old Wham song goes 'if you're gonna do it, do it right'.

For the record I don't know Spook, I just think he has a point. If he's trolling then I can't tell. I've never read any posts by him before.

gallag

It does seem pretty hypocritical to lambast pedestrians or rollerbladers/skaters etc for going slower than you would like to but at the same time when it comes to holding cars up, well as th op said "fu×k them".

Squidgy Black

gallag wrote: »

It does seem pretty hypocritical to lambast pedestrians or rollerbladers/skaters etc for going slower than you would like to but at the same time when it comes to holding cars up, well as th op said "fu×k them".

Not really. Bikes are allowed, by law, to cycle in the primary lanes. The only time a bike would be holding a car up would be if there's no cycle lane at all and they had to cycle in the primary lane. In this case, there's a perfectly fine path no more than 5 feet away from the cycle path, but everyone chooses to walk/use the cycle lane.

Spook_ie

zipzoc wrote: »

That's a valid question IMO. I think what the poster is saying is that normally a motorist would not beep his/her horn to make other road users 'aware of their presence' so why should a cyclist be obliged to do just the same in a cycle lane? Of course if a pedestrian walks out in front of you you need to ring your bell or beep your horn. But tonight for example, I was driving in the Phoenix Park and at the Castleknock end there were lots of small groups of people walking in the cycle lane while the 'walking lane' remained unused. Now that's just plain dumb or provocative towards cyclists. I think if the OPW go painting bicycles on the path they should make those paths dedicated cycle lanes. If they're going to paint pictures of bicycles in 'mixed use lanes' then they shouldn't bother. As the old Wham song goes 'if you're gonna do it, do it right'.

For the record I don't know Spook, I just think he has a point. If he's trolling then I can't tell. I've never read any posts by him before.

Unhappily I won't be able to comment

BostonB

Spook_ie wrote: »

Just a question specifically related to you using a bell to move/make aware slower traffic, if I was beeping my horn to make you aware that as a faster moving vehicle I wanted to pass , would you be as courteous as the walkers and move over or be pig ignorant and just think " I've as much right as he has " ?

TBH, it has never arisen on the road, because if I'm center lane, I'm there for a reason, and usually I've made eye contact to the following driver and signaled my intentions. So perhaps, I'm entering a roundabout and I want other drivers to treat me like I'm a car so I'm not squeezed, or say its a 3 lane road, (Quays for example) and I have to be far right center lane to turn right. The other place I'll do it is approaching a junction where drivers have a habit of overtaking than cutting you off by turning left last minute. In those cases I take the lane till I'm through the junction and move back in.

I'm not in the habit of taking the lane for ages, as I prefer to have an impatient (dangerous driver) disappearing in front of me, than bottled up behind me. I do the same when driving, especially for tailgaters, let the speed merchants/tail gaters past. Let them sweep the road for speed camera's.

As a driver, you might consider why a cyclist is center lane, or out from the curb than simply assuming they are holding you up for no good reason. of course in a car, 30 seconds, or a minute or two is nothing over a 20~30 minute journey. Where are you going that time is that critical.

In the car this evening, L -plater in front, slow to get off from the lights, car behind was on the horn immediately. Thats just ignorant. Of course, theres a toot on the horn as a warning, or heads up, then theres a angry longer blast. its pretty obvious which is which.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On the bike in the park its a little different, as people have a habit of moving unpredictably, so you have to warn them of your approach. Going off path onto the grass to go around is a little risky on slicks, the grass is slippy and uneven.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Spook do you blow the horn at cars for holding you up?

Using a horn
Only use a horn to:

warn other road users of on-coming danger, or
make them aware of your presence for safety reasons when reasonably necessary.
Remember, the horn does not give you the right of way.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/good-driving-practice/using-a-horn.html

BostonB

zipzoc wrote: »

T...I was driving in the Phoenix Park and at the Castleknock end there were lots of small groups of people walking in the cycle lane while the 'walking lane' remained unused. Now that's just plain dumb ....

Not really. They let people park along side the cycle lane. Its logical they will get out of their cars and start walking on the first path they find. At the Castleknock end they've just started walking, and probably they haven't met any cyclists yet, or noticed the signs.

I don't really the issue, if you are going slowly a few walkers isn't much of a problem. If you are going fast you should be on the road. If there's some event on, or its a sunny weekend day, you've got to take much slower.

ROK ON

Last week someone erected a small sign attached to a wooden stake into the ground saying, pedestrians please do not walk in the cycle lane.
It was at the beginning of the polo ground railings as one heads into toward Parkgate St from D15.
I have no idea as to who placed it there, but it had been uprooted by Friday morning.

I sometimes use the lanes in the morning, as there are in the main reasonably free of walkers. In the evenings there are so many other ways to get home using the park without ever having to resort tonthe cycle lane. It's only an issue if you make it an issue.