phoenix park cycle lanes????

Nedkelly24

New to cycling..tried going through the park today on the cycle lanes...impossible with walkers and slow cyclists with ipods on had to use the roads...is this the norm??? taxi drivers not impressed...f#%k em...

ROK ON

Nedkelly24 wrote: »

New to cycling..tried going through the park today on the cycle lanes...impossible with walkers and slow cyclists with ipods on had to use the roads...is this the norm??? taxi drivers not impressed...f#%k em...

I commute into Dublin city centre from D15 a few days a week. I nearly never use the cycle lanes.
In early morning joggers use them - hard to see even with two good front lights.

In the evening they get worse as the months go by.
Slow wobbly cyclists, walkers, joggers, people going to parked cars, the dreaded 'walking ladies'

Plenty of quiet roads in the Pheno, plus the hard shoulders can be often free of parked cars.

Tombo2001

Nedkelly24 wrote: »

New to cycling..tried going through the park today on the cycle lanes...impossible with walkers and slow cyclists with ipods on had to use the roads...is this the norm??? taxi drivers not impressed...f#%k em...

I have been told that technically these things are not cycle lanes: that is to say they are not exclusively for bikes, pedestrians are fully entitled to walk on them. As such the little paintings of bikes dont really count for much.

I should stress, my source for this nugget of information was another boards.ie poster, not anything I dug up myself.

Its not really safe to cycle on them, certainly not down the main stretch. I would rarely use them. Its quite hazardous close to the zoo with all the kids jumping out of cars. The worst is people walking/ jogging with headphones on, cant hear you coming so you need to slow right down.

By the same token, I would think you are just as entitled to be on the road as the pedestrian is to be in the bike lane.

Nedkelly24

got quite a shock today being a newbee ( fred ) ..roads it is for me so....:-) cheers ...

Raam

I wish the park was not permitted as a through way for cars.

Alias G

I stuck a bell on the bike and the peds jump out of the way fairly sharpish when I start ringing on it. I know people moan about the park cycle lanes but they are actually some of the few bike lanes that I actually enjoy using.

buffalo

Alias G wrote: »

I stuck a bell on the bike and the peds jump out of the way fairly sharpish when I start ringing on it. I know people moan about the park cycle lanes but they are actually some of the few bike lanes that I actually enjoy using.

+1 on the bell, was thinking of getting a quick-fit one for training rides in the Park.

HeidiHeidi

I walk/jog in the park regularly, and am occasionally forced out onto the cycle lanes. Last week being an example - the inner walking paths were flooded badly in a lot of spots, the cycle paths are elevated and don't suffer the same problem.

But I make sure to walk on the right, and jump onto the grass when any oncoming cyclists approach. I can't understand why courtesy isn't shown by all parties, but especially by the groups (be they cyclists or others) who often refuse to drop back to single file to let others pass by on the tarmac. I got a filthy look and almost cycled straight into by a grumpy elderly cyclist at the Castleknock gate - I was on the grass, out of his way, and he came straight at me!

The Park is such a fantastic resource, it's a shame it's the cause of such aggro on occasion.

Tombo2001

buffalo wrote: »

+1 on the bell, was thinking of getting a quick-fit one for training rides in the Park.

Yep, plus one to that.

I cant understand why more cyclists dont use bells.

buffalo

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I can't understand why courtesy isn't shown by all parties

This applies on all sides. I was cycling in the Park at that time, and noticed the flooded paths. So I resigned myself to encounters on the cycle track (was with a friend who wasn't confident on the road), but when you have people with dog leads stretched across the path, people who walk three abreast and don't make any room, people who are facing the wrong way so that you pretty much have to shout at them, etc... patience is soon stretched thin.

Clearly, you understand the priority of the path, and yield, but there are plenty more who don't, which leads to frustration on all sides. Just continue to be as courteous as possible at all times, and soon everyone will learn some manners.

Well in theory, in a perfect world - ymmv.

petethedrummer

Nedkelly24 wrote: »

got quite a shock today being a newbee ( fred ) ..roads it is for me so....:-) cheers ...

If you want a flat route, take the North Road.

If you want undulating terrain, take the Ordnance Survey - Upper Glen - Military Roads.

petethedrummer

Actually the correct option is the 2nd option. It's more scenic, interesting and cars can't use it the full way round. And you're a cyclist now, you should be looking for as many hills as possible.:)

Oink

This has been discussed before, and if I remember well the outcome was: "the whole thing is a disgraceful mess, who knows what's really legal or not in the Park..."

I find that the best thing to do is to take a deep breath. Otherwise I'd be liable to lose the rag altogether while cycling.

Sean02

As "real cyclists" we are reluctant to spoil the looks of our pride and joy with a lowley bell...... but if you intend sharing either pathsways or cycleways with pedresrrians it makes sense. You know the feeling you get when you are riding along a quite scenic stretch of country road ...suddently a Cowasaki or 1000cc Harley zooms past...your heart rate up to 200, wobbling all over the place......many peds have this when we glide past, and as they only see our back they dont realise we are "real cyclists".

hardCopy

petethedrummer wrote: »

Actually the correct option is the 2nd option. It's more scenic, interesting and cars can't use it the full way round. And you're a cyclist now, you should be looking for as many hills as possible.:)

The North Road is also in bits and best avoided on the bike.

funkyjebus

buffalo wrote: »

+1 on the bell, was thinking of getting a quick-fit one for training rides in the Park.

I find my fulcrums a great option. Quick freewheel and they jump out of the way as no one is quite sure what they noise is the first time they here it.

Having said that I am in the park 3 times a week at least for the last 5 years, can't remember the last time I cycled braved the cycle lanes.

Way too dangerous if you doing any sort of decent speed.

Nedkelly24

DELETED

monument

Sean02 wrote: »

As "real cyclists" we are reluctant to spoil the looks of our pride and joy with a lowley bell...... but if you intend sharing either pathsways or cycleways with pedresrrians it makes sense. You know the feeling you get when you are riding along a quite scenic stretch of country road ...suddently a Cowasaki or 1000cc Harley zooms past...your heart rate up to 200, wobbling all over the place......many peds have this when we glide past, and as they only see our back they dont realise we are "real cyclists".

What exactly is a real cyclist?

BostonB

Nedkelly24 wrote: »

New to cycling..tried going through the park today on the cycle lanes...impossible with walkers and slow cyclists with ipods on had to use the roads...is this the norm??? taxi drivers not impressed...f#%k em...

Always the same on a Sunday. Everyones out walking on a Sunday.

TBH the paths in the park are not really designed for fast cyclists. If you take it handy and have a bell and a decent light, you should have no problem. Just a little bit of give and take and you can share the path. I commute through the park and use the paths no problem.

At the weekend of if there's some event on, or if you are going at a decent speed you're better off on the road.

average_runner

Its a stupid design. People with prams have to walk on cycle lanes to get to their cars. They should be swap around.

Also remember the path outside the zoo is not a cycle lane.

A bit of common sense and it be all ok.

ThisRegard

average_runner wrote: »

Its a stupid design. People with prams have to walk on cycle lanes to get to their cars. They should be swap around.

Nah, it wouldn't be a very nice walking environment walking alongside the main road, particularly if you have animals or kids with you.

RacoonQueen

ThisRegard wrote: »

Nah, it wouldn't be a very nice walking environment walking alongside the main road, particularly if you have animals or kids with you.

Where the cycle lane is should be for cars to park and where cars park you could have a cycle lane. There'd even be enough space to leave a gap for car doors to open.

Never use the cycle lanes in the park when on the bike, its pointless. Often run in them but always watch my back/run on grass etc some parts like one side of the north road and around the fifteen acres there is no 'path'

Plutonium Kun

The lanes in the Park are pretty poor. A couple of years ago they did a consultation for the Park Management Plan and I wrote complaining and asking for them to be reassessed, but I got no response. Some parts are just idiotic, and I can't believe they were designed by a cyclist. There is a junction between two cyclepaths close to St. Mary's hospital where there is no transition curve, there is less than 90 degrees between them, meaning you have to virtually stop to make a turn. Of course, the paths on Chesterfield Avenue are better than nothing, but they are afflicted with walkers (or for that matter, cyclists going the wrong way). At night, because the footpath is unlit, many pedestrians use them too, increasing the hazard.

Another annoyance is that they have statutory 'stop' markings at every minor road crossing. There are a few lane accesses for GAA and Cricket pitches where you have to stop (well, according to the law, I've never seen a cyclist stop at them, they make no sense. And of course it says everything that bikes have to give way to cars in a public park.

The problem with them is that nobody seemed to give any thought as to what they are for. Are they for commuters going through the park? People doing training loops? Casual recreational cyclists? Its impossible to tell from the layout, which makes me think it was really a case of 'oh, lets put a few cyclepaths in where they won't bother anyone'.

average_runner

ThisRegard wrote: »

Nah, it wouldn't be a very nice walking environment walking alongside the main road, particularly if you have animals or kids with you.

Dogs are meant to be on a leash at all times in the park. True it wouldn't be great for kids.

average_runner

Plutonium Kun wrote: »

The lanes in the Park are pretty poor. A couple of years ago they did a consultation for the Park Management Plan and I wrote complaining and asking for them to be reassessed, but I got no response. Some parts are just idiotic, and I can't believe they were designed by a cyclist. There is a junction between two cyclepaths close to St. Mary's hospital where there is no transition curve, there is less than 90 degrees between them, meaning you have to virtually stop to make a turn. Of course, the paths on Chesterfield Avenue are better than nothing, but they are afflicted with walkers (or for that matter, cyclists going the wrong way). At night, because the footpath is unlit, many pedestrians use them too, increasing the hazard.

Another annoyance is that they have statutory 'stop' markings at every minor road crossing. There are a few lane accesses for GAA and Cricket pitches where you have to stop (well, according to the law, I've never seen a cyclist stop at them, they make no sense. And of course it says everything that bikes have to give way to cars in a public park.

The problem with them is that nobody seemed to give any thought as to what they are for. Are they for commuters going through the park? People doing training loops? Casual recreational cyclists? Its impossible to tell from the layout, which makes me think it was really a case of 'oh, lets put a few cyclepaths in where they won't bother anyone'.

Definitely not for training on as wouldn't suit cyclists.

Zyzz

I tend to ride at night when the 'parking lanes' are empty and it is actually a very handy stretch of road

ThisRegard

average_runner wrote: »

Dogs are meant to be on a leash at all times in the park.

This is always trotted out, it's not true.

And you'd prefer the risk of dogs that are on leads to stray across the cycle lane to get into the trees if the lanes were reversed ? People complain about how bad it is now with people walking on the cycle lanes, it would be infinitely worse if you were to change them over.

average_runner

ThisRegard wrote: »

This is always trotted out, it's not true.

And you'd prefer the risk of dogs that are on leads to stray across the cycle lane to get into the trees if the lanes were reversed ? People complain about how bad it is now with people walking on the cycle lanes, it would be infinitely worse if you were to change them over.

Its law that dogs are to be kept under control at all time or you can get a fine. Also where there is other live stock such as deers, dogs must be on the leash and i have seen the park ranger confront people over this.

Dog not kept under control

On-the-spot fine of €30 payable to your local authority


Failure to pay on-the-spot fines can lead to prosecution in District Court with a maximum fine of €1904.61 and/or 3 months imprisonment

Cleaver99

Suprised no one has mentioned that other menace on wheels..rollerbladers!
Veering all over the place, head phones on, arms swinging out to the side, lethal.

Anyway looking out at the sun this morning I can't wait for the bright evenings to have a spin around the park on my way home.

ThisRegard

average_runner wrote: »

Its law that dogs are to be kept under control at all time or you can get a fine. Also where there is other live stock such as deers, dogs must be on the leash and i have seen the park ranger confront people over this.

Yes, under control, but not leashed. The only time they're required to be on the lead is during fawning season and even at that only in certain areas of the park, usually in the area around the back of the American ambassadors residence. And common sense dictates to most reasonable owners to have them on leads around the deer herds if they're likely to go chasing them.

Suprised no one has mentioned that other menace on wheels..rollerbladers!
Veering all over the place, head phones on, arms swinging out to the side, lethal.

I posted this before but one summers evening I was behind a fully kitted out guy and were approaching a girl on roller blades, rather than give a heads up he cycles up close behind her and gives her a right shove in the back, what a tool.

average_runner

ThisRegard wrote: »

So we're in agreement that dogs aren't required to be on leads at all times in the park. The only time they're required to be on the lead is during fawning season and even at that only in certain areas of the park, usually in the area around the back of the American ambassadors residence. And common sense dictates to most reasonable owners to have them on leads around the deer herds if they're likely to go chasing them.



I posted this before but one summers evening I was behind a fully kitted out guy and were approaching a girl on roller blades, rather than give a heads up he cycles up close behind her and gives her a right shove in the back, what a tool.

But they have to be under control at all times, that means cause no menace to anyone else at anytime.

In fairness Phoenix park is not bad for out of control dogs, there is alot worst parks.

tfrancer

ThisRegard wrote: »

back of the American ambassadors residence. And common sense dictates to most reasonable owners to have them on leads around the deer herds if they're likely to go chasing them.

l.

You have a very benign view of human nature.

ThisRegard

That's why I qualified my statement with "most reasonable". I've seen plenty of people watch helplessly or tried in vain to catch their dogs who decided it would be fun to chase the deer, understandable from the dogs point of view. I even heard one story via a park ranger about how every morning this guy would bring his boxer to the park and let him chase the deer as exercise. The caught up with him eventually and was barred from the park.


But as average_runner said, the park is not the worse place for dogs,

RobertFoster

Cleaver99 wrote: »

Suprised no one has mentioned that other menace on wheels..rollerbladers!
Veering all over the place, head phones on, arms swinging out to the side, lethal.

Anyway looking out at the sun this morning I can't wait for the bright evenings to have a spin around the park on my way home.

Skateboarders too. I came up behind one and said "on your left" as I was about to pass him. Must've startled him as he came off the board

I don't mind the paths in the park. If I can go at speed, I go at speed, but I'm rarely in a rush to get through it. Slowing down to avoid other park users just lets me enjoy the scenery. My main gripe with the paths are the junctions, especially at the phoenix monument heading in - it's a severe transition from path to road.

It's great when they close Chesterfield Ave. to traffic. Hopefully they do that again this summer.

SHOVELLER

I used to cycle through the park a few years back. Had to give up as so many people walking on the cycle lanes despite a better and safer footpath nearby.

Final straw came one night as I got some speed up and some idiot walker appeared right in front of me with no lights or reflectors on.

Found this yesterday. She openly admits to breaking the law and encourages others to do the same.

Newsflash Anna your mother has no right to walk on the cycle path:

BostonB

SHOVELLER wrote: »

....Found this yesterday. She openly admits to breaking the law and encourages others to do the same.

Newsflash Anna your mother has no right to walk on the cycle path:...

Not that I'm agreeing with her but, if shes breaking the law, what law is it? AFAIK the legal status of the paths in the park is as clear as mud.

I hardly ever had a problem with people moving aside in the park when I ring my bell.

SHOVELLER

AFAIK if a pedestrian or jogger is on a cycle path and is in a collision with a cyclist the cyclist is blameless. In other words the jogger or pedestrian wouldnt have a leg to stand on, excuse the pun!

BostonB

Indeed but the issue is, are these paths cycle paths. or just paths.

Zyzz

Theres a perfectly suitable path just to the left that walkers and joggers can use..I can't understand why people don't use it

buffalo

SHOVELLER wrote: »

AFAIK if a pedestrian or jogger is on a cycle path and is in a collision with a cyclist the cyclist is blameless. In other words the jogger or pedestrian wouldnt have a leg to stand on, excuse the pun!

wtf? What if the pedestrian was on a road and was hit by a car? Would the motorist by blameless? Cop on and use some sense. Nobody likes people on the cycle tracks, but they're easy to avoid most of the time.

BostonB

Zyzz wrote: »

Theres a perfectly suitable path just to the left that walkers and joggers can use..I can't understand why people don't use it

People do use it. All the time. You really don't see that?

buffalo

BostonB wrote: »

People do use it. All the time. You really don't see that?

But many don't. Clontarf is another one that confuses me, though there are far fewer walkers on the track there. But there's a path right beside the sea front, and another one beside the cycle track bordering the road. What logic do the few who walk on the cycle track have?

Zyzz

from the OP..

Nedkelly24 wrote: »

New to cycling..tried going through the park today on the cycle lanes...impossible with walkers and slow cyclists with ipods on had to use the roads...is this the norm??? taxi drivers not impressed...f#%k em...

BostonB wrote: »

People do use it. All the time. You really don't see that?

I cycle there 3 or 4 times a week, I do see people using it, but the others that don't, they are people we are talking about. Smart arse.

BostonB

Zyzz wrote: »

from the OP..

I cycle there 3 or 4 times a week, I do see people using it, but the others that don't, they are people we are talking about. Smart arse.

I'm just highlighting how vague you're being here.

People are assuming its cycle only path. That assumption may not be correct, or have any basis in law, or the bylaws of the park.


We've had this discussion before (goes back to 2007) here.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76491070&postcount=74

Zyzz

BostonB wrote: »

I'm just highlighting how vague you're being here.

People are assuming its cycle only path. That assumption may not be correct, or have any basis in law, or the bylaws of the park.


We've had this discussion before (goes back to 2007) here.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76491070&postcount=74

I really don't see how I'm being vague. There is a footpath, a cycle lane and a road, and the traffic that goes through the phoenix park are pedestrians/joggers, cyclists and motor vehicle users..you don't see the people walking in cycle lanes through town do you? Along the quays for example, why should it be different?

Unless you are one of those that walk in the cycle lane, silly me :rolleyes:

BostonB

Well you said you walkers and joggers don't use the inside path. Then you said you do see them using it. Then you said you don't mean those people you mean the other people.

Besides where does it say you can't walk in this so called cycle lane in the Park?

You see people walking on cycle lanes in the city center all the time. Don't tell me you've never seen that either. Especially on the Grand Canal Cycle Track. Wilton Terrace. All along it, every time I pass by it. Unfortunately I can't find a video of it. Just this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkjhScFkoyg

Zyzz

BostonB wrote: »

Well you said you walkers and joggers don't use the inside path. Then you said you do see them using it. Then you said you don't mean those people you mean the other people.

Besides where does it say you can't walk in this so called cycle lane in the Park?

You see people walking on cycle lanes in the city center all the time. Don't tell me you've never seen that either. Especially on the Grand Canal Cycle Track. Wilton Terrace. All along it, every time I pass by it. Unfortunately I can't find a video of it. Just this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkjhScFkoyg

You are twisting my words..

Switch it around then, if cyclists were to start cycling in the pedestrian lane there would be uproar..so why should it be different vice versa?

SHOVELLER

buffalo wrote: »

wtf? What if the pedestrian was on a road and was hit by a car? Would the motorist by blameless? Cop on and use some sense. Nobody likes people on the cycle tracks, but they're easy to avoid most of the time.

Why would a pedestrian be walking on a road? You need to cop on.

Easy to avoid is not the point.

ThisRegard

The only thing you can really do when this happens is just take a big breath and get on with it, no point in getting angry about it, like the cyclist I saw try push a girl on roller blades off the lane one summer evening.

BostonB

Zyzz wrote: »

You are twisting my words..

Switch it around then, if cyclists were to start cycling in the pedestrian lane there would be uproar..so why should it be different vice versa?

Yes we've never seen a cyclist on a footpath.

Simple question is, how do you know walkers aren't allowed by law on that so called cycle lane. Thats the only issue here. Because if you can't share a path, then it has to be enforced by law. So which law is it. Because that path hasn't got the legal markings for a cycle lane. There is no other issue here.

Other than common sense and treat others as you wish to be treated. I cycle those paths a lot in the park, a friendly call, or a bell and 99% of people move out of the way. Only exception would be on a exceptionally busy day, when you're better off on the road. Any fast cyclist would be better off on the road at all times.

BostonB

ThisRegard wrote: »

The only thing you can really do when this happens is just take a big breath and get on with it, no point in getting angry about it, like the cyclist I saw try push a girl on roller blades off the lane one summer evening.

Exactly. Why the rush on a bike. You're not stuck in traffic, your travel time is going to pretty much the same regardless of one or two people in your way.