phoenix park cycle lanes????

tfrancer

ThisRegard wrote: »

back of the American ambassadors residence. And common sense dictates to most reasonable owners to have them on leads around the deer herds if they're likely to go chasing them.

l.

You have a very benign view of human nature.

ThisRegard

That's why I qualified my statement with "most reasonable". I've seen plenty of people watch helplessly or tried in vain to catch their dogs who decided it would be fun to chase the deer, understandable from the dogs point of view. I even heard one story via a park ranger about how every morning this guy would bring his boxer to the park and let him chase the deer as exercise. The caught up with him eventually and was barred from the park.


But as average_runner said, the park is not the worse place for dogs,

RobertFoster

Cleaver99 wrote: »

Suprised no one has mentioned that other menace on wheels..rollerbladers!
Veering all over the place, head phones on, arms swinging out to the side, lethal.

Anyway looking out at the sun this morning I can't wait for the bright evenings to have a spin around the park on my way home.

Skateboarders too. I came up behind one and said "on your left" as I was about to pass him. Must've startled him as he came off the board

I don't mind the paths in the park. If I can go at speed, I go at speed, but I'm rarely in a rush to get through it. Slowing down to avoid other park users just lets me enjoy the scenery. My main gripe with the paths are the junctions, especially at the phoenix monument heading in - it's a severe transition from path to road.

It's great when they close Chesterfield Ave. to traffic. Hopefully they do that again this summer.

SHOVELLER

I used to cycle through the park a few years back. Had to give up as so many people walking on the cycle lanes despite a better and safer footpath nearby.

Final straw came one night as I got some speed up and some idiot walker appeared right in front of me with no lights or reflectors on.

Found this yesterday. She openly admits to breaking the law and encourages others to do the same.

Newsflash Anna your mother has no right to walk on the cycle path:

BostonB

SHOVELLER wrote: »

....Found this yesterday. She openly admits to breaking the law and encourages others to do the same.

Newsflash Anna your mother has no right to walk on the cycle path:...

Not that I'm agreeing with her but, if shes breaking the law, what law is it? AFAIK the legal status of the paths in the park is as clear as mud.

I hardly ever had a problem with people moving aside in the park when I ring my bell.

SHOVELLER

AFAIK if a pedestrian or jogger is on a cycle path and is in a collision with a cyclist the cyclist is blameless. In other words the jogger or pedestrian wouldnt have a leg to stand on, excuse the pun!

BostonB

Indeed but the issue is, are these paths cycle paths. or just paths.

Zyzz

Theres a perfectly suitable path just to the left that walkers and joggers can use..I can't understand why people don't use it

buffalo

SHOVELLER wrote: »

AFAIK if a pedestrian or jogger is on a cycle path and is in a collision with a cyclist the cyclist is blameless. In other words the jogger or pedestrian wouldnt have a leg to stand on, excuse the pun!

wtf? What if the pedestrian was on a road and was hit by a car? Would the motorist by blameless? Cop on and use some sense. Nobody likes people on the cycle tracks, but they're easy to avoid most of the time.

BostonB

Zyzz wrote: »

Theres a perfectly suitable path just to the left that walkers and joggers can use..I can't understand why people don't use it

People do use it. All the time. You really don't see that?

buffalo

BostonB wrote: »

People do use it. All the time. You really don't see that?

But many don't. Clontarf is another one that confuses me, though there are far fewer walkers on the track there. But there's a path right beside the sea front, and another one beside the cycle track bordering the road. What logic do the few who walk on the cycle track have?

Zyzz

from the OP..

Nedkelly24 wrote: »

New to cycling..tried going through the park today on the cycle lanes...impossible with walkers and slow cyclists with ipods on had to use the roads...is this the norm??? taxi drivers not impressed...f#%k em...

BostonB wrote: »

People do use it. All the time. You really don't see that?

I cycle there 3 or 4 times a week, I do see people using it, but the others that don't, they are people we are talking about. Smart arse.

BostonB

Zyzz wrote: »

from the OP..

I cycle there 3 or 4 times a week, I do see people using it, but the others that don't, they are people we are talking about. Smart arse.

I'm just highlighting how vague you're being here.

People are assuming its cycle only path. That assumption may not be correct, or have any basis in law, or the bylaws of the park.


We've had this discussion before (goes back to 2007) here.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76491070&postcount=74

Zyzz

BostonB wrote: »

I'm just highlighting how vague you're being here.

People are assuming its cycle only path. That assumption may not be correct, or have any basis in law, or the bylaws of the park.


We've had this discussion before (goes back to 2007) here.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76491070&postcount=74

I really don't see how I'm being vague. There is a footpath, a cycle lane and a road, and the traffic that goes through the phoenix park are pedestrians/joggers, cyclists and motor vehicle users..you don't see the people walking in cycle lanes through town do you? Along the quays for example, why should it be different?

Unless you are one of those that walk in the cycle lane, silly me :rolleyes:

BostonB

Well you said you walkers and joggers don't use the inside path. Then you said you do see them using it. Then you said you don't mean those people you mean the other people.

Besides where does it say you can't walk in this so called cycle lane in the Park?

You see people walking on cycle lanes in the city center all the time. Don't tell me you've never seen that either. Especially on the Grand Canal Cycle Track. Wilton Terrace. All along it, every time I pass by it. Unfortunately I can't find a video of it. Just this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkjhScFkoyg

Zyzz

BostonB wrote: »

Well you said you walkers and joggers don't use the inside path. Then you said you do see them using it. Then you said you don't mean those people you mean the other people.

Besides where does it say you can't walk in this so called cycle lane in the Park?

You see people walking on cycle lanes in the city center all the time. Don't tell me you've never seen that either. Especially on the Grand Canal Cycle Track. Wilton Terrace. All along it, every time I pass by it. Unfortunately I can't find a video of it. Just this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkjhScFkoyg

You are twisting my words..

Switch it around then, if cyclists were to start cycling in the pedestrian lane there would be uproar..so why should it be different vice versa?

SHOVELLER

buffalo wrote: »

wtf? What if the pedestrian was on a road and was hit by a car? Would the motorist by blameless? Cop on and use some sense. Nobody likes people on the cycle tracks, but they're easy to avoid most of the time.

Why would a pedestrian be walking on a road? You need to cop on.

Easy to avoid is not the point.

ThisRegard

The only thing you can really do when this happens is just take a big breath and get on with it, no point in getting angry about it, like the cyclist I saw try push a girl on roller blades off the lane one summer evening.

BostonB

Zyzz wrote: »

You are twisting my words..

Switch it around then, if cyclists were to start cycling in the pedestrian lane there would be uproar..so why should it be different vice versa?

Yes we've never seen a cyclist on a footpath.

Simple question is, how do you know walkers aren't allowed by law on that so called cycle lane. Thats the only issue here. Because if you can't share a path, then it has to be enforced by law. So which law is it. Because that path hasn't got the legal markings for a cycle lane. There is no other issue here.

Other than common sense and treat others as you wish to be treated. I cycle those paths a lot in the park, a friendly call, or a bell and 99% of people move out of the way. Only exception would be on a exceptionally busy day, when you're better off on the road. Any fast cyclist would be better off on the road at all times.

BostonB

ThisRegard wrote: »

The only thing you can really do when this happens is just take a big breath and get on with it, no point in getting angry about it, like the cyclist I saw try push a girl on roller blades off the lane one summer evening.

Exactly. Why the rush on a bike. You're not stuck in traffic, your travel time is going to pretty much the same regardless of one or two people in your way.

Doctor Bob

Zyzz wrote: »

I really don't see how I'm being vague. There is a footpath, a cycle lane and a road, and the traffic that goes through the phoenix park are pedestrians/joggers, cyclists and motor vehicle users..you don't see the people walking in cycle lanes through town do you? Along the quays for example, why should it be different?

The laws that govern cycle tracks on public roads don't apply to the 'cycle tracks' in the Phoenix Park as the roads in the park are not public roads.

SHOVELLER

Doctor Bob wrote: »

The laws that govern cycle tracks on public roads don't apply to the 'cycle tracks' in the Phoenix Park as the roads in the park are not public roads.

Not doubting you but would you have a link for this?

markpb

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Not doubting you but would you have a link for this?

This seems to cover all the by-laws of the park. The only two relevant ones are

(6) No vehicle other than a bicycle or tricycle shall be driven on or across the turf or grass in the Park except during such times and at such places as the Commissioners shall authorise and shall specify in notices exhibited at such places.

(7) No bicycle, tricycle, or other vehicle shall be ridden or driven at any time on or across any footpath in the Park.

So it seems like there's no law against walking on the cycle lanes.

Doctor Bob

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Not doubting you but would you have a link for this?

The Park is managed by the OPW and, as such, is treated just like the other historic properties it manages since its designation in 1986 as a National Historic Park (see the 1986 Phoenix Park Management Plan).

The primary legislation for matters relating to the Park is the Phoenix Park Act, 1925. which includes the provision:

3.—
(2) The Commissioners may from time to time make such alterations and improvements in the arrangement, laying out, planting, draining, and fencing of the Park as they think proper for all or any of the purposes aforesaid, and in particular may from time to time make, open, and maintain such new roads and paths in the Park, and from time to time close and break-up such then existing roads and paths in the Park, as they think proper.

The Phoenix Park Bye-laws (1926) contain regulations pertaining to vehicular traffic; particularly notable in this regard is that the Guards, the Commissioners (for Public Works) or a park constable are the only authorities mentioned by name, i.e. the local council isn't mentioned at all.

And just by way of additional illustration, note also that the signatory of the Phoenix Park Act 1925 Regulations 2008, which amends access and egress at certain park gates, is the Commissioner of An Garda Síochána, not the Minister for Transport as would be the case for a Statutory Instrument related to public roads.

This probably isn't enough to demonstrate my point conclusively, but might be sufficient to answer your query.

Also worthy of note, regarding which paths are for which mode of transport, is the following provision from the 1926 Bye-laws:

VEHICULAR TRAFFIC.
4.
(7) No bicycle, tricycle, or other vehicle shall be ridden or driven at any time on or across any footpath in the Park.

Equally noteworthy is the fact that a similar provision doesn't seem to exist to preclude pedestrians from using the cycle tracks.

buffalo

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Why would a pedestrian be walking on a road? You need to cop on.

Easy to avoid is not the point.

To get across it? Or if there's no footpath?

The reason I asked for some sensThe logic your OP contained suggests to me that a cyclist could ram a pedestrian (if they were on the cycle track), and claim no responsibility. Which is false, and rather inflammatory.

SHOVELLER

buffalo wrote: »

To get across it? Or if there's no footpath?

The reason I asked for some sensThe logic your OP contained suggests to me that a cyclist could ram a pedestrian (if they were on the cycle track), and claim no responsibility. Which is false, and rather inflammatory.

Very few roads have no footpaths near them. Also I never advocated ramming anyone. I did say that if a pedestrian got hit by a cyclist on a clear cycle lane (not the Phoenix Park we now know) the cyclist is not liable.

Along the Grand Canal at some stages there are three footpaths near the cycle lane yet there are still some who insist on jogging or walking on said cycle lane. There is NO excuse for this.

buffalo

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Very few roads have no footpaths near them. Also I never advocated ramming anyone. I did say that if a pedestrian got hit by a cyclist on a clear cycle lane (not the Phoenix Park we now know) the cyclist is not liable.

This is not true. Because if it was, it would be an open licence to ram people. Every incident is different, in some the cyclist might be entirely liable, in others, not at all.

Thinkingaboutit

Just thankful I've never had to cycle through there when it was busy. I just went on the road, dunno if that's right or wrong.

Dotsie~tmp

I love cycling in the park. The loop is a great 9k then home. Im not sure why anyone would want to use the patchs or lanes though? Too busy, to starty-stoppy. Road are fairly clear and smooth for good speed.

monument

This is from the Phoenix Park Conservation Management Plan:

The Phoenix Park is also a public place within the meaning of the Road Traffic Acts. As such, An Garda Siochána has a key role in enforcing traffic regulations and in the preservation of order within the Park.