Fur?

Das Kitty

I do find it strange that people worry about fur, but leather is a-okay.

Leather doesn't (or rarely does) come from the same animals eaten for meat. A lot of the time the factory practises are as bad or worse than those of the fur industry.

I'm not judging, I just find it interesting, the norms. I wear leather, I would probably wear fur if I saw something in it that I liked, but I'm not the biggest fan of it aesthethically.

My grandmother had a mink stole that was basically two mink sewn together at the bum. Ick. And she had a fur hat too which was nicer, mainly because it didn't have claws.

Whispered

Das Kitty wrote: »

I do find it strange that people worry about fur, but leather is a-okay.

A lot of people I know who are anti fur are also adverse to wearing leather. It can be more difficult to avoid, granted, but doesn't sit well ethically with a lot of people either.

As for the slaughter being worse for one or the other, well we just don't know. How many times have we heard about this place or that place being filmed and it's always an "isolated incident". Nobody knows exactly what goes on in those places, but I know someone who works in the air con and refrigeration industry who refused to go back to a meat factory (in the midlands) and threatened to leave the job if they tried to make him. He said that what was considered "normal" and was ignored was disgusting.

For me it's about norms too Das, people wear leather, there is not a whole lot that can be done about it, people eat meat, again, not a whole lot that can be done. Not a lot of people wear fur, and I think it would be a shame to see it popularised, and add to the horror we already cause to animals for our meat & leather industries.

It's not about judgement, or trying to change the world, it's about personally making the choice to minimise the suffering you contribute to. For some people that would be doing nothing, for others it would be refusing to wear fur, for more it would be refusing to buy meat from certain places, or at all and then others choose to live by consuming as few animal products as possible.

I guess it's about finding a balance of living your own life as you wish and doing what you feel strongly about. I wouldn't wear fur or leather, but I do have a leather couch. My need for a hard wearing, long lasting material (I have dogs) won out over my ethics in that case.

meeeeh

Das Kitty wrote: »

I do find it strange that people worry about fur, but leather is a-okay.

Leather doesn't (or rarely does) come from the same animals eaten for meat. A lot of the time the factory practises are as bad or worse than those of the fur industry.

I'm not judging, I just find it interesting, the norms. I wear leather, I would probably wear fur if I saw something in it that I liked, but I'm not the biggest fan of it aesthethically.

My grandmother had a mink stole that was basically two mink sewn together at the bum. Ick. And she had a fur hat too which was nicer, mainly because it didn't have claws.

I have an old jacket with fur collar (no claws, just a small detachable collar) and I don't really have problems wearing that. I also love leather and hate plastic shoes or jackets. But for whatever reason I find whole jacket made of fur yucky. I'm not objecting it but it just isn't my thing. It doesn't help that I grew up in a country where women would travel to then Czechoslovakia and buy cheap coats there. I always felt that their behaviour there was extremely vulgar but that is subject for another thread.

rainbowtrout

Whispered wrote: »

I wouldn't wear fur or leather, but I do have a leather couch. My need for a hard wearing, long lasting material (I have dogs) won out over my ethics in that case.

You choose not to wear leather or fur, but you have a leather couch. I really don't see the difference, animals still had to be killed to make your couch.

In case anyone is wondering I wear leather myself, I have plenty of leather shoes, a leather jacket etc, I just don't see how ethics win out when it comes to clothing but not for furniture.

I also have a pair of fur mittens. I was on holiday in winter in Greenland 3 years ago and bought them there. They are made of musk ox and reindeer. I also watched men butchering animals on an extremely cold night outdoors while I was there. Furs are used to make clothes, meat is eaten, bones are used to make small toys and ornaments, nothing is wasted. It is essentially subsistence living. I don't feel bad wearing gloves that came from an animal that was killed out of necessity and all of the animal was used.

Whispered

rainbowtrout wrote: »

You choose not to wear leather or fur, but you have a leather couch. I really don't see the difference, animals still had to be killed to make your couch.

Well the point of the rest of my post was

it's about personally making the choice to minimise the suffering you contribute to

and

finding a balance of living your own life as you wish and doing what you feel strongly about

Das Kitty

Like, you could kick someone in the face. But it doesn't mean you have to kick everyone in the face.

:pac:

wolfpawnat

Not my sort of thing, I don't like furs and hate the look of them, but if you like it and it looks good, the animal is long dead, you are not condoning current fur farms and you did not buy it so why not.

Whispered

Das Kitty wrote: »

Like, you could kick someone in the face. But it doesn't mean you have to kick everyone in the face.

:pac:

Exactly - sounds silly but that is it perfectly. If we all were to live our ethics to the extreme, we would have very sparse lives.

I'm sure we are all against pollution, so you might recycle. That most likely doesn't mean you're going to avoid owning a car due to the pollution caused each time you drive it. Your recycling may be more, or may be less than what others do, but it's something you've chosen to do, to the extent you do it, because it fits a balance between what you feel and how you want to live.

wolfpawnat

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I also have a pair of fur mittens. I was on holiday in winter in Greenland 3 years ago and bought them there. They are made of musk ox and reindeer. I also watched men butchering animals on an extremely cold night outdoors while I was there. Furs are used to make clothes, meat is eaten, bones are used to make small toys and ornaments, nothing is wasted. It is essentially subsistence living. I don't feel bad wearing gloves that came from an animal that was killed out of necessity and all of the animal was used.

I myself don't have any leather or fur clothes, but if I did, I would like them to be from an animal that was fully utilised like you stated. You can't really feel as guilty then because the animal was not wasted.

I silently judge people who wear fur, not so much leather as we, as a species, use all of a cow except for a few organs and bones, but I would never been openly hostile to them. The same way some vegetarians and vegans would silently judge me for having a steak sandwich.

The way I see it, the animal used for the OP's jacket is long dead, I rather it was now used than know it died for absolutely no reason. That to me is a bigger shame.

daenerysstormborn3

amtc wrote: »

bit the bullet and wore it today. It's a very classic style - on me a blazer - my aunt is smaller and he said she used to wear it as a coat in the 1970s, lulu style with flat boots.

Bought a new laptop and the girl in Currys admired it and I got stopped twice by neighbours in Tesco admiring it! Feel all chuffed! New clothes without spending a penny!

Dead (pardon the pun) warm and looks great. can't believe my aunt spent £800 on a coat in 1970...when my parents house was £3,000!

One thing that was sweet my mam found a picture of my aunt wearing it at my christening in 1973 (she's my god mother).

That is lovely. I bet you're chuffed with the photo. What a lovely piece of family history.

I agree with DK. A lot of the people who go on about fur have no problem eating a burger or wearing leather items of clothing. If you think fur is the worst of the industry, you've obviously never heard what goes on on killing floors in meat factories around Ireland and around the world or the animal abuse that goes on with animals killed for their hide.

My mum has three fur coats that were handed down through the generations. She has never worn them because it's just not her style but if she offered any of them to me I would happily take them. In fact, I am going to see my parents this weekend and I think I'll jump into the wardrobe and see if I can get them out for a look.

Links234

I probably wouldn't wear fur because I doubt it would suit me, but I do wear quite a bit of leather, be that boots or coats. I was joking at the weekend that I was wearing 2/3rds of a cow

greeneyedspirit

LittleBook wrote: »

Eugh yeah, those creepy fox fur stoles that keep the head and claws of the animal for decoration and then make a clasp out of the mouth so the poor yoke is biting it's own tail! :eek: Finding one of those would scare the bejesus out of me! :pac:

slightly OT on the issue of wearing/not wearing the fur coat, but my aunt has one of those. Of course she insisted on wearing it to my wedding :eek: Even as a child I hated that thing. I'm convinced she only wore it to annoy me.
My flowergirl, now niece (10) was like: Who's the lady with the dead fox, she's creeping me out! :pac:

Twee.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Why do you feel the need to wear real

- Huge sentimental value (real fur bought by my gran in Switzers for my godmother on her 21st, the faux was my gran aunts, given to my aunt and is now mine. I'll be keeping it for her daughter.)

- Extremely warm, keeps snow and rain out perfectly. So warm that I barely wore them this winter as it wasn't cold enough.

- Both are in perfect condition, suitable for wearing.

- If I may say so myself, they both look great on.

- Whether or not I wear them, they still exist. I didn't buy them. I can throw them out (what a waste) or I can wear them. So I do!

Galwayguy35

Twee. wrote: »

- Huge sentimental value (real fur bought by my gran in Switzers for my godmother on her 21st, the faux was my gran aunts, given to my aunt and is now mine. I'll be keeping it for her daughter.)

- Extremely warm, keeps snow and rain out perfectly. So warm that I barely wore them this winter as it wasn't cold enough.

- Both are in perfect condition, suitable for wearing.

- If I may say so myself, they both look great on.

- Whether or not I wear them, they still exist. I didn't buy them. I can throw them out (what a waste) or I can wear them. So I do!

Fair enough.

I suppose it's just something everyone has a different view on.

username123

I eat meat and have no problem with leather and am fully aware that philosophically speaking there is no justification for the way we treat animals (meat industry, fashion industry, entertainment industry, zoos etc..).

So on the face of it, I shouldnt have an issue with fur. But I just find it kind of.......icky, in a way that I dont find leather or meat eating icky.

I suppose that on eating meat I am prepared to kill an animal myself if someone hands me a knife and I am hungry, and even on leather Ive owned 'functional' leather jackets as opposed to 'fashionable' leather jackets, but with fur, its just to look pretty and I guess Im not that invested in looking pretty.

I dunno, I just dont like it. I used to have a fake fur (obvious fake) but I look back at it cringingly.

I wouldnt be remotely bothered by the notion of people silently judging though - so what? People are silently judging you on everything, your hair, your car, how you walk, how you talk, what you look like, what shop you are in, what shoes you wear etc..... Being judged is part of the human condition, everyone does it, and it happens to everyone. Ive never really cared what random strangers think.

So on balance, go OP, wear it and enjoy it.

Demonical

Fur is disgusting on humans. I cant understand people who wear it and cant condone the wearing of it at all no matter when the garment was made. It is disgraceful in this day and age that people wear it when there is absolutely no need for it for the majority of the human population.

strandroad

username123 wrote: »

So on the face of it, I shouldnt have an issue with fur. But I just find it kind of.......icky, in a way that I dont find leather or meat eating icky.

Leather is the least bad of them all, because (unless it's crocodile or something) it's a byproduct of meat industry. No cow or pig is killed for its skin, actually most skins are destroyed as there's no demand for that many.

Demonical

You have to be very careful with the leather you buy though. China and other asian countries export the skins of dogs and cats that they kill to eat and that is made into garments for us none the wiser westerners.

strandroad

Demonical wrote: »

You have to be very careful with the leather you buy though. China and other asian countries export the skins of dogs and cats that they kill to eat and that is made into garments for us none the wiser westerners.

True that. I try not to buy leather anyway and I'm successful with garments, handbags etc, it's just with boots that it's sometimes impossible to find a replacement.

amtc

I've barely left the thing off me from the last post - it looks great. My way of looking at it is that my aunt bought it, and it's been in a wardrobe for nearly 40 years. I love that she last wore it at my christening.

My nana's got Alzheimers and we skyped her tonight and she remembered the coat because my aunt couldn't pay her board that month after buying the coat. My nana remembers so little that was great.

pwurple

Demonical wrote: »

You have to be very careful with the leather you buy though. China and other asian countries export the skins of dogs and cats that they kill to eat and that is made into garments for us none the wiser westerners.

So what? If the animal is killed for meat I am more than happy to see the rest of it put to good use rather than chucked in a bin.

ButterflyGirl23

Suppose it really is an ethical choice only you can make. Just be aware that you may get some dirty looks or nasty comments it you wear it out. (Have seen this happen to people in town).

If you do decide to give it away, consider giving it to PETA as they will donate it to wildlife reserves that use it to keep orphan cubs warm or to poor people who live in freezing climates, details are on their website.

southsiderosie

Although it never occurred to me to buy a fur coat, I inherited one from a great-aunt, and I don't have any qualms about wearing it. It is the warmest coat I've ever owned and it is in good shape, so it would be a waste to get rid of it. Plus it has sentimental value. So if someone wants to lecture me when I wear it in public, I have no problem telling them to mind their own business.

One thing I've found interesting about the fur/leather debate is the question of animal rights versus environmental sustainability. Many synthetic fabrics are made with petrochemicals and are of poor quality, meaning that we buy, wear, and then dump them in ever increasing cycles (helped in no small part by the rise of 'cheap chic' chains like Zara). I've been lectured by vegans about wearing leather boots and sandals, but unlike synthetic boots and sandals I have purchased in the past, leather shoes don't fall apart and need to be replaced after every season.

Ultimately, I think there needs to be a balance: I don't think animals should be skinned alive (or stuffed into cages with their beaks broken, or raised in tiny pens, etc), but at the same time, I think it is both unreasonable and unsustainable to turn to synthetic alternatives for much of what we wear (and, increasingly, eat).

Queen-Mise

southsiderosie wrote: »

One thing I've found interesting about the fur/leather debate is the question of animal rights versus environmental sustainability. Many synthetic fabrics are made with petrochemicals and are of poor quality, meaning that we buy, wear, and then dump them in ever increasing cycles (helped in no small part by the rise of 'cheap chic' chains like Zara). I've been lectured by vegans about wearing leather boots and sandals, but unlike synthetic boots and sandals I have purchased in the past, leather shoes don't fall apart and need to be replaced after every season.

I read something very recently on a debate on fur and the argument was very similar to your one here.

One side was obviously fur = bad, evil blah de blah...
The other side was the girl wears only vintage fur, and it better to wear vintage fur, than faux fur (cheap chic) that will fall apart in six months and end up in a landfill somewhere.

As long as an animal isn't endangered (be it for meat or clothes wear) - I don't have a problem with it. And I would prefer if the animals are treated with dignity in their life - I'd love that to be a forced condition.
I'd say vintage is the way to go - if you want it.