Irish gun licenses and good starter guns

lb1997

Hi , I looked in the sticky threads and the one on getting a license in ireland is missing so ive few questions id like to ask. whats the run down on getting a license? e.g minimum age, max calibre , types of guns, conditions , costs , and the process and availability of firearm licenses
Also , if its possible , I would like a rifle as my first gun preferable with some sort of scope. .22 keeps popping up and i think i heard thats the max for a first gun or something like that . could you point me towards some reliable cheap guns. i've seen single barrel rifles on TV and im wondering if these are used at all and if they even exist. really im just looking for a cheap and reliable gun and accurate if its possible to have all this in one gun. and finally what is the price difference in shotguns and rifles?
I'd appreciate the help Thanks.

p.s would be cool to get a WW2 kar98 or moisin nagant but thats call of duty for ya.
i really have no idea about the real gun except they fire a rather large round.

Witcher

What do you intend using the gun for? That will help you decide between shotgun and a rifle.

lb1997

well at first , target shooting then i may move onto hunting but arent both guns suitable for these things? the reason i mentioned the rifle is because i would prefer long range with and optic of some sort and low recoil and cheaper ammunition , not even if sure if that statement is true but that is the impression i have of rifles

Witcher

If you want to target shoot you'll have to join a range, ya can't just fire at a target in a random field.

A .22lr is the perfect starter gun especially if you want to shoot targets and gives you a bigger choice of ranges because not many ranges in Ireland can accomodate the bigger calibres.

lb1997

would a .22 lr be suitable for hunting??
and are you serious that you cant shoot targets on your own property?

Witcher

lb1997 wrote: »

would a .22 lr be suitable for hunting??
and are you serious that you cant shoot targets on your own property?

Yeah you could shoot rabbits with it and a fox if it was pretty close, nothing bigger than that.

No you can't, if it was allowed you'd get a few dickheads firing at cans on fence posts and walls with no backstop.

lb1997

ok i understand, well then what about hunting? do you need to joina club for that?

Witcher

lb1997 wrote: »

ok i understand, well then what about hunting? do you need to joina club for that?

You can join a gun club if you have one near you or get permission from 2 or so farmers to shoot on their land.

juice1304

the same idiots who do stupid things like that are'nt going to care about the law.

lb1997

Blay wrote: »

You can join a gun club if you have one near you or get permission from 2 or so farmers to shoot on their land.

thats what i dont get. you can shoot animals outside of a club but you cant shoot targets. doesnt that seem like gateway for people to shoot targets illegaly anyway?
and wouldnt hunting be more of a risk since the targets will move and since there will be much fewer targets you will panic more and forget about whats behind you shots?
edit: what about hunting birds ?

Witcher

lb1997 wrote: »

thats what i dont get. you can shoot animals outside of a club but you cant shoot targets. doesnt that seem like gateway for people to shoot targets illegaly anyway?
and wouldnt hunting be more of a risk since the targets will move and since there will be much fewer targets you will panic more and forget about whats behind you shots?

People do target shoot illegally but as Juice said the type of person who would shoot a can off a fence post with no backstop will do it no matter what the law says, ya can't stop those type of people.

Well if you're using a .22 rifle you wouldn't be firing at a running rabbit and you should never panic and 'forget' what's behind the target, if you don't know you don't pull the trigger. You're holding the power of life and death in your hands, if the rabbit gets away..fcuk it you'll get another one but if you fire without a backstop into a hedge and kill someone in the next field over you'll never get a chance to take that back.

You can shoot some vermin birds with a rifle, but not game birds like pheasent etc.

lb1997

Blay wrote: »

People do target shoot illegally but as Juice said people like that will do it no matter what the law says.

Well if you're using a .22 rifle you wouldn't be firing at a running rabbit and you should never panic and 'forget' what's behind the target, if you don't know you don't pull the trigger. You're holding the power of life and death in your hands, if the rabbit gets away..fcuk it you'll get anotherone but if you fire without a backstop into a hedge and kill someone in the next field over you'll never get a chance to take that back.

yeah i can see i have an amateur's view of guns , in my mind there a toy and i have to learn there a weapon. would you recommend joining a gun club? i have zero experience and need to learn gun safety and the techniques of effective shooting.

Witcher

lb1997 wrote: »

yeah i can see i have an amateur's view of guns , in my mind there a toy and i have to learn there a weapon. would you recommend joining a gun club? i have zero experience and need to learn gun safety and the techniques of effective shooting.

Well you'll have to change that view, safety is a mindset and its the most important thing you'll ever learn about firearms. If you have a local gun club then consider joining it, you'll have to do a safety/competency course to get your licence anyway.

lb1997

on that note could you give me more information on obtaining a license? that is if you have that information.
''e.g minimum age, max calibre , types of guns, conditions , costs , and the process and availability of firearm licenses''

Witcher

lb1997 wrote: »

on that note could you give me more information on obtaining a license? that is if you have that information.
''e.g minimum age, max calibre , types of guns, conditions , costs , and the process and availability of firearm licenses''

Min age for a training licence is 14, you can get your own one at 16.

Technically speaking you can own any calibre and any make and model of firearm but you have to give an adequate reason for it that your superintendent will accept.

-You'll have to do a safety/competency course as I said and meet the security requirements...if you're getting a rifle you'll need a safe.
-You'll need to join a range, gun club or get permission from some farmers to use their land.
-When you're buying your rifle you leave a deposit with the firearms dealer and he'll give you a receipt for it.

Then you fill out an FCA1 form that you can get from the Garda website, you include the paperwork for;

-Your land permission or gun club membership,

-Evidence that you've done a safety course,

-The receipt for your rifle and a receipt for your safe would help too if you have one.

Plus some other bits like a photo etc. then you hand it in, wait for a number of weeks/months. Then you'll get a letter, you take that to the post office, pay €80, you'll get you licence in the post, bring it to the dealers and you can pay the balance on your gun and collect it.

lb1997

by land permission can that be your own land??? or what about joining a club without a gun?
and how would you show reciept of rifle if you dont have license to buy one? or do you not need a license to buy onr

Cass

lb1997 wrote: »

Hi , I looked in the sticky threads and the one on getting a license in ireland is missing.........

Big Red announcement at the top of the main shooting forum.

Scroll down a little and in big bold letters you get "how to license a firearm in Ireland updated for 2009. Which leads you to this full explanation including pictures of the FCA1 you need to fill out.

It also covers security requirements, and other legal requirements.

Alternatively under the sticky "Firearms licensing information - Please read before asking about firearms licensing" in the main shooting page the same info is contained. It also shows the commissoner's guidelines which outlines the practical application of the firearms act, age, guns, etc.


If you cannot find these a search with "age limit" brings back 100 results including threads on the legal age to own a gun, questions on firearms, calibers, advice on firearms, and meetings with firearms officer, etc.

Witcher

lb1997 wrote: »

by land permission can that be your own land??? or what about joining a club without a gun?
and how would you show reciept of rifle if you dont have license to buy one? or do you not need a license to buy onr

If the super thinks you own enough land to warrant getting a gun then you can hunt on your own land but you might need your own land plus permission from another farmer just to be sure. You can join a gun club without a gun, then apply for one.

You leave a deposit with a dealer on a gun then he'll give you an invoice stating you've left a deposit on the gun, that's what you hand in with your application.

Cass

Information from another post. Relevant enough.

When it comes to starting of the first caliber recommended is always a .22lr rifle. The reason for this is the rifle, setup, gear, ammo, etc is cheap to buy, and easy to maintain/run.

The limitations with a .22lr are range, and effectiveness on larger game. However if you have no experience with a rifle then i would not suggest jumping into a centrefire rifle. The differnce betwen a rimfire, and centrefire is based on the make up of the round used. See the picture below;


The round to the left being the rimfire meaning once the bottom/rim of the cartridge is struck by the firing pin the round is discharged. On a centrefire the primer (no 4 on right picture) must be struck which ignites the powder and fires the bullet.

Most rimfires have a range of between 0 - 125 yards, effective range. Centrefire rifles, depending on shooter ability have mush greater effective ranges, and hence need ALOT more experience to handle. Apart from the firearm you need to be aware of your environment, backstop (where the bullet will finish) shot placement, etc. Its not quite as easy as point and pull the trigger.

The best selling and most popular starter rifle is the CZ .22lr.


Th setup above would cost, depending on scope choice, about €800 new or between €300 - €550 second hand. There are a fantastic gun, and if you asked i would say about 70% of rifle shooter either had one or have one.

To find out which rifle you want or more importantly which suits your intended purpose then i would suggest visiting a few rifle ranges, and seeing what others are using, and what they have, use it for, how it works, how effective it is, cost, etc. Most ranges would welcome you, and freely show you around. Simply ring before travleing as some ranges need prior notification before you can turn up.

Once you have your fireamr chosen, know what you want you go to a dealers. You should always go to as many as possible, and never buy in the first shop even if the price seems too good to be true. once you have a gn picked in a dealer you trust i always recommend asking someone with experience to come view it, and gie you advice on the price you are paying and the deal you are getting. Too many people just pay whats asked, and find out after they could have done better, or gotten it cheaper elsewhere.

With regards to the license, and getting one. Your previous experience with a shotgun will be a plus, but you may find you have to do a comptency course to obtain a rifle license. This process is described here and here.

Once you have the course done, if necessary, you need to apply for the license and send in your course cert. If you intend on hunting you need permission letters from land owners/farmers to say you have their permission to shoot on their land. If you want it for range work then you need to be a member of an authorised range. All the details for , about and how to fill in the FCA1 is here. Also have a read of the seciurity requirements. A safe is mandatory for a rifle, and as you have a shotgun you might fulfill the safety requirements already.

In relation to buying form a member on boards or anyone privately. Its no different to buying of a dealer realy bar one or two things. Have a read of this thread to get a rough idea.

i think i've covered most of the basics. TBH its a lot of info, and the red announcement a the top of the main shooting forum holds pretty much all the info you would need.

lb1997

Cass wrote: »

Big Red announcement at the top of the main shooting forum.

Scroll down a little and in big bold letters you get "how to license a firearm in Ireland updated for 2009. Which leads you to this full explanation including pictures of the FCA1 you need to fill out.

It also covers security requirements, and other legal requirements.

Alternatively under the sticky "Firearms licensing information - Please read before asking about firearms licensing" in the main shooting page the same info is contained. It also shows the commissoner's guidelines which outlines the practical application of the firearms act, age, guns, etc.


If you cannot find these a search with "age limit" brings back 100 results including threads on the legal age to own a gun, questions on firearms, calibers, advice on firearms, and meetings with firearms officer, etc.

yeah thanks but i was looking for help on what gun more than the license and i felt i might aswell ask about licenses while im at it. and i tryed navigating through all those threada dn stuff and i failed to find what i was looking for and when i did find it it was marked as lost

Longranger

lb1997 wrote: »

yeah i can see i have an amateur's view of guns , in my mind there a toy and i have to learn there a weapon. would you recommend joining a gun club? i have zero experience and need to learn gun safety and the techniques of effective shooting.

I don't want to sound like an old fart, but you should get the idea of a firearm being a "weapon" out of your head. It's only a weapon when you use it to deliberatey harm another person. They are also as far from "toys" as you could possibly get. Try to meet up with someone who shoots and go out with them for a couple of sessions to get a feel for it and then sort yourself out for your own firearm. I'm not having a dig at you but when you have jumped through the amount of hoops as most of us here have you will understand. Best of luck with it, and when you get sorted, if you are ever out wesht,PM me and you will be welcome to come out
for a few bunnies. Good luck and happy hunting .
LR

lb1997

Longranger wrote: »

I don't want to sound like an old fart, but you should get the idea of a firearm being a "weapon" out of your head. It's only a weapon when you use it to deliberatey harm another person. They are also as far from "toys" as you could possibly get. Try to meet up with someone who shoots and go out with them for a couple of sessions to get a feel for it and then sort yourself out for your own firearm. I'm not having a dig at you but when you have jumped through the amount of hoops as most of us here have you will understand. Best of luck with it, and when you get sorted, if you are ever out wesht,PM me and you will be welcome to come out
for a few bunnies. Good luck and happy hunting .
LR[/QU

isnt that exaclty what i said in that post????
that i have to learn it ISNT a toy??
and Im a 100% sure a gun IS a weapon, you dont have to use it harm some one for it to be a weapon.

lb1997

Thanks everyone for the help! greatly appreciated

Cass

lb1997 wrote: »

yeah thanks but i was looking for help on what gun more than the license ..............

Opening line of your first post;

lb1997 wrote: »

Hi , I looked in the sticky threads and the one on getting a license in ireland is missing so ive few questions id like to ask. whats the run down on getting a license?

Followed by the same a few posts later;

lb1997 wrote: »

on that note could you give me more information on obtaining a license? that is if you have that information.

hence my reason for explaining where to find the information.

lb1997 wrote: »

and Im a 100% sure a gun IS a weapon, you dont have to use it harm some one for it to be a weapon.

On this forum it's a firearm. Not a weapon.

lb1997

and a firearm is a weapon. i just mean it in a broad way, beacause a gun is a weapon but also a firearm.
and sorry about that rant on the license, i thought you were mocking me when you posted that information. I had a look for the information i wanted in the stickies, failed to find any, then decided to ask on a thread since i've never done it before .

Witcher

lb1997 wrote: »

and a firearm is a weapon.

If you go to join a gun club/range or talk to a farmer about using their land or talk to a firearms dealer do not call it a weapon because you'll be shown the door. Take advice from people who own firearms.

juice1304

lb1997 wrote: »

and Im a 100% sure a gun IS a weapon, you dont have to use it harm some one for it to be a weapon.

Are the knifes in your kitchen weapons, what about a golf club? No they are not but can be used as such they are tools just like a firearm is a tool either designed for target shooting or hunting.

lb1997

juice1304 wrote: »

Are the knifes in your kitchen weapons, what about a golf club? No they are not but can be used as such they are tools just like a firearm is a tool either designed for target shooting or hunting.

well technically a golf club and a kitchen knife can be used as a weapon.
I wasnt specific rnough in what i said, it was just a statement that was worded incorrectly why am i being attcked for it?

Cass

lb1997 wrote: »

and a firearm is a weapon. i just mean it in a broad way, beacause a gun is a weapon but also a firearm.

In another forum, in other usage - yes. Not here though.

.......... and sorry about that rant on the license, i thought you were mocking me when you posted that information. I had a look for the information i wanted in the stickies, failed to find any, then decided to ask on a thread since i've never done it before .

Not mocking. I simply linked to all the threads, stickies, etc that contained the information you wanted.

lb1997 wrote: »

well technically a golf club and a kitchen knife can be used as a weapon.

As can a car, hurl, etc.

This debate has come up dozens of times before so to prevent this thread getting derailed by it lets leave it at this. A weapon has a specific purpose, and when used conjures negative images. This is not the intended use for our firearms so we refer to them as firearms.

So lets get back on topic, and forget this, because if not it will drag out and the original purpose of your thread will be lost.

tac foley

It's because the license to own such an item is called a Firearms Certificate, not a 'weapons certificate'.

And it's why ALL the documentation on applying for a firearm of any kind uses the term 'firearm' and not 'weapon'.

The military have 'weapons' and use them to shoot at other people who also have 'weapons'. We are civilians, and we have 'firearms'. Simple.

tac

lb1997

Cass wrote: »

In another forum, in other usage - yes. Not here though.

Not mocking. I simply linked to all the threads, stickies, etc that contained the information you wanted.

As can a car, hurl, etc.

This debate has come up dozens of times before so to prevent this thread getting derailed by it lets leave it at this. A weapon has a specific purpose, and when used conjures negative images. This is not the intended use for our firearms so we refer to them as firearms.

So lets get back on topic, and forget this, because if not it will drag out and the original purpose of your thread will be lost.

ok im sorry to you all but im a 16 year old kid thats never even seen a ''firearm'' fired before ( I dont know how you thought I have a shotgun?) I have no clue on ''firearm'' safety or laws . rules or the terms you use thats no reason to contradict a mistake make, I know this is no topic for a childd but i needed some guidance so i can change my view of 'firearms' and realise a ''firearm'' isnt a weapon . i now have sufficient knowledge to get started. in a years time i will hopefully have some experience and a ''firearm'' of my own and i will be able to help beginners with their ''firearm'' questions

Cass

lb1997 wrote: »

ok im sorry to you all but im a 16 year old kid thats never even seen a ''firearm'' fired before...........

That helps provide an answer.

( I dont know how you thought I have a shotgun?)

Ah. That is my fault. Previous post edited.

I have no clue on ''firearm'' safety or laws . rules or the terms you use thats no reason to contradict a mistake make, I know this is no topic for a childd but i needed some guidance so i can change my view of 'firearms' and realise a ''firearm'' isnt a weapon .

Then without being a dick, perhaps it would be better to listen than argue every point. We only tell you what we have to try and inform you from the start. Prevent you making mistakes we have made.

i now have sufficient knowledge to get started. in a years time i will hopefully have some experience and a ''firearm'' of my own and i will be able to help beginners with their ''firearm'' questions

That s the cycle. If you take every correction as personal then you are going to be in for a rough, and long journey. Some people are not so "polite", and will call you out on the smallest of imperfections in both speech, and most definitely actions.

My advice is to ask questions, listen, ask for explanations if not clear, then take what you need from what you are told.

flanum

Calling a Firearm a "weapon" to the majority of irish people involved in the sport is the equivalent to scraping your nails down a blackboard!

lb1997

well said, im just used to mellow enviroment of sites like yahoo answers where there is so many people who talk complete **** to each other ,nobody has any asnwers there all just guessing , nobody knows who is right or wrong and and adverts.ie where any reasonable offer is sure to be a timewaster and the serious offers are always too low.
. I just need some more time to get used to forums like this cos you guys are all so strict haha

Cass

lb1997 wrote: »

............ people who talk complete **** to each other ,

You'll get some of that too.

......... nobody has any asnwers there all just guessing , nobody knows who is right or wrong .........

It is a discussion forum, and topics are always open for debate. However as a dedicated shooting forum we do not deal with anything outside of shooting. In some subjects there will be right or wrong answers and in others it's a point of view debate.

lb1997

Cass wrote: »

You'll get some of that too.

It is a discussion forum, and topics are always open for debate. However as a dedicated shooting forum we do not deal with anything outside of shooting. In some subjects there will be right or wrong answers and in others it's a point of view debate.

sorry I done it again! I mean yahoo is terrible because of that awful point system they use , it just turns into game for some people and dont give a **** about the questioners

lb1997

flanum wrote: »

Calling a Firearm a "weapon" to the majority of irish people involved in the sport is the equivalent to scraping your nails down a blackboard!

i guess i learned the hard way, but i understand how it can be insulting

Cass

lb1997 wrote: »

sorry I done it again!

It's okay. I know what you meant. I was referring to here, not implying that you were.

My poor, poor attempt at wit.












I'll get my coat.

mike91

Cass wrote: »

It's okay. I know what you meant. I was referring to here, not implying that you were.

My poor, poor attempt at wit.












[SIZE="1"]I'll get my coat.[/SIZE]

Hahahahahaha!!!

flanum

well youve definitely learned a couple of things just by following this forum, seriously try to hook up with a local guy to your area that would be willing to bring you out for an introduction to basic firearms handling/shooting... also dont forget you are not licenced to actually use another persons firearm but you can accompany them and watch,listen,look and learn... your on a steep learning curve here but you seem to have started at the right end at least! good luck and keep us posted!

dodderangler

On the subject of shooting vermin birds just to point out to the lad is never under any circumstance shoot any bird with a rifle in the air
Bullets travel and god knows when it'll land and what it hits so don't even shoot in the air or if there is no backdrop
Don't ever assume no one else is around the area either hunting or just walking
And when saying firearm lose the quotation marks " "
They are firearms and not weapons and not a joke
I said it before and got a bolloking

alsace royal

Blay wrote: »

Well you'll have to change that view, safety is a mindset and its the most important thing you'll ever learn about firearms. If you have a local gun club then consider joining it, you'll have to do a safety/competency course to get your licence anyway.

not trying to hi-jack here just a quick question on the safety/competency course? i havent bought or changed any of my guns in 10 years but recently applyed for a .22lr cz brno. was i suppost to do this course? i tought it was just for larger calibers and deer lisence applications? em i was 16 when i bought my first u/o and there was nothing like it, sorry if it seems a stupid question.

tac foley

lb1997 wrote: »

i guess i learned the hard way, but i understand how it can be insulting

Not necessarily insulting, just ill-informed. In just the same way as you have to learn the 'language' of a sport like sailing or horse-riding, so it is with shooting.

However, it's as well to realise as early as possible that if WE make a mistake, then innocent people might die from it - guns are VERY good at having a total intolerance to eejits.

I was very lucky, my dad introduced me to shooting at age six, and never let me be in any doubt that although it was great fun, it was also fun that had tremendous responsibilities going along with it, as well as respect for other humans and the live game that we eventually took with our sporting firearms, in the case of those who follow that aspect of the shooting sports.

As Cass notes, here is the place to learn the language and lore of guns and shooting, so that you don't make a total plawk of yourself when you get to talking with others who might be older and better-informed than you are.

Join a club/range without delay, to get things started - I'd been shooting ten years by your age!

tac

Witcher

alsace royal wrote: »

not trying to hi-jack here just a quick question on the safety/competency course? i havent bought or changed any of my guns in 10 years but recently applyed for a .22lr cz brno. was i suppost to do this course? i tought it was just for larger calibers and deer lisence applications? em i was 16 when i bought my first u/o and there was nothing like it, sorry if it seems a stupid question.

No if you currently hold or have held a licence before you don't need to do t:)

Mr.Woodcock

Well lad just wondering where your based, i.e near Dublin, or the midlands, etc, you can go to a place like courtlough or hilltop(not sure if hilltop do competence courses, can any one fill me in on that?) and that will give you the opportunity to fire a rifle and give you a feel for it, there's no point jumping feet first and spending money for something you might find isn't for you, for example I gave fly fishing lessons to people before who came along with 500 or 600 euros with of gear that probably hasn't seen the light of day in years, shooting ranges like courtlough give you the opportunity to give it a go, in safe environment, remember safety is the key to being a responsible firearm owner! And while your at a place like that you can view firearms for sale, find out the cost etc, hopefully this will point you in the right direction!

Witcher

Yeah Hilltop do NRA courses.

nastros

I just recently went through the process of buying a rifle and the advise I got here really helped me make the right decision. Personally if you have never used a gun before then you would be better of joining a club then going down the route of getting 2 landowners signatures. Clubs will let you join if you do not have a firearm and will give you proper training and advice you need. As said previously a CZ in 22lr is a good starter rifle. It is also called a Brno due to Brno being bought by CZ the rifle then became the CZ. This is something that confused me at one stage. There are a number of really good clubs around Ireland so it really is down to location for you.

terminator2

my 2pence worth is buy a shotgun first , much safer and better crack than a rifle

lapua20grain

get yourself a 22LR CZ scout nice little gun looks small but nice balance bolt action accurate a lot easier to clean than a semi auto for a starter. nice little gun for plinking target and rabbits not too expensive either

lb1997

hi again , just had look at some air rifles / pellet guns. would it be easier to obtain a license for one of these instead of a shotgun/rifle?

Witcher

It's the same process for all licences so an air rifle wouldn't be any easier especially if it's your first licence.