Magdalen Laundry stories.

iguana

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Yes, I'm sure people knew there was something "not quite right" going on, but they were terrified of the Church and were conditioned to not ask questions. I don't think we can fully appreciate it from our educated and more liberal standpoints.

I don't think that's true of many people. While that may be true of many people who lived in the vicinity of the laundries, I just don't think it applies to most people in the country. If you didn't live near one, didn't work in one or didn't have a relative/friend in one why would you ever think about them? Most people would have been getting on with their lives with no reason or opportunity to ever be aware. I know from talking to my parents that it just wasn't something that ever registered on their radar until the stories became big news in the 90s.

Think about it. In 1983 33% of the population voted against the 8th amendment and in 1986 36% voted in favour of the proposed 10th. Both referendums followed strong campaigns from each side. Do you really think that at a point when pretty large groups of people were prepared to openly oppose the church on the issue of abortion and divorce that they were frightened to ask questions about and challenge the authority of the laundries? Do you think that someone who was happy to stroll around the shops sporting a 'vote yes (to divorce)' sticker, as I remember a lot of people doing, was someone who was terrified of the church or conditioned not to ask questions? Most people just didn't know.

pwurple wrote: »

I believe the last woman sent to a laundry was around 1969? That's 4 decades ago. even though they remained remained running since. (That is a foggy memory from the radio, does anyone have the exact date? )

Sent by whom? There is a long running thread in the adoption forum about the 'mother and baby home' in Dunboyne with most of the posters either mother or (former) babies who were there in the 80s, right up to 1989. So girls were certainly being sent by their families up until fairly recently.

pwurple

iguana wrote: »

Sent by whom? There is a long running thread in the adoption forum about the 'mother and baby home' in Dunboyne with most of the posters either mother or (former) babies who were there in the 80s, right up to 1989. So girls were certainly being sent by their families up until fairly recently.

Was the dunboyne home a laundry?

I was going through receipts a few years ago when we were clearing out the house after my grandmother passed away. We found loads of receipts from the local laundry in Cork. They used to send the butchers aprons to them to be cleaned. I asked my dad about it. He said when he was a child, he thought they were a service, with a sort of charitable aspect to it. They thought they were helping the women and children. He had no idea they were being held there against their will. He thought they were being employed when no-one else would, and they supported it to help the women. He was sickened to hear what had been happening in there.

I can forsee us maybe looking back in a few years at things like some NGO activities, maybe like Bothar Animals being sent to africa... And realising despite good intentions, it was not the right thing to do.

lazygal

pwurple wrote: »

Was the dunboyne home a laundry?

I was going through receipts a few years ago when we were clearing out the house after my grandmother passed away. We found loads of receipts from the local laundry in Cork. They used to send the butchers aprons to them to be cleaned. I asked my dad about it. He said when he was a child, he thought they were a service, with a sort of charitable aspect to it. They thought they were helping the women and children. He had no idea they were being held there against their will. He thought they were being employed when no-one else would, and they supported it to help the women. He was sickened to hear what had been happening in there.

I can forsee us maybe looking back in a few years at things like some NGO activities, maybe like Bothar Animals being sent to africa... And realising despite good intentions, it was not the right thing to do.

Like those holidays set up as charity treks, or sending builders to places with massive unemployment to build houses, and shoeboxes which have Christian messages in them to children at Christmas. I've become very cynical about charity and volunteering, and the money and egos of those involved, over recent years.

clairefontaine

You know, its not like people were lining up to house these women. If single mothers weren't taken care of today by the state and the facilities in London, do you really think things would be that different today? How many single mothers have you housed, fed and clothed with their babies?

Its easy to feel outrage, harder to face that we are probably no less passive about things than the people back then.

Morag

Yes cos those christians clearly did such a good job of it.

clairefontaine

Morag wrote: »

Yes cos those christians clearly did such a good job of it.

They did a lousy job.

But no one else reached out to help.

How many today would offer to home, clothe and feed a single mother and her baby?

jam_mac_jam

clairefontaine wrote: »

You know, its not like people were lining up to house these women. If single mothers weren't taken care of today by the state and the facilities in London, do you really think things would be that different today? How many single mothers have you housed, fed and clothed with their babies?

Its easy to feel outrage, harder to face that we are probably no less passive about things than the people back then.

A lot of them were not single mothers.

clairefontaine

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

A lot of them were not single mothers.

Oh? What were they?

Did anyone else step up to house them etc?

Scarinae

clairefontaine wrote: »

Oh? What were they?

Did anyone else step up to house them etc?

Some of them were girls who had been sexually assaulted or raped, some of them were girls who had been brought up in orphanages and were transferred there. The documentary someone posted earlier in the thread had a girl who was considered to be very pretty and might tempt men, so she was dumped in a laundry as well.

clairefontaine

Scarinae wrote: »

Some of them were girls who had been sexually assaulted or raped, some of them were girls who had been brought up in orphanages and were transferred there. The documentary someone posted earlier in the thread had a girl who was considered to be very pretty and might tempt men, so she was dumped in a laundry as well.

Ah got ya. So it was more about being soiled.

Still though... I can't see too many people today offering housing, clothing, etc for these girls and women.

lazygal

Scarinae wrote: »

Some of them were girls who had been sexually assaulted or raped, some of them were girls who had been brought up in orphanages and were transferred there. The documentary someone posted earlier in the thread had a girl who was considered to be very pretty and might tempt men, so she was dumped in a laundry as well.

Yes, a far wider demographic of children and women worked in them, far from the pregnant single girl stereotype. One women said the nuns promised her mother she would be placed in a domestic service training course, and even sent her mother certificates about her placement in exams. Pure lies, surely even Christians shouldn't be lying to parents who think their children are being given the chance to further themselves.

clairefontaine

lazygal wrote: »

Yes, a far wider demographic of children and women worked in them, far from the pregnant single girl stereotype. One women said the nuns promised her mother she would be placed in a domestic service training course, and even sent her mother certificates about her placement in exams. Pure lies, surely even Christians shouldn't be lying to parents who think their children are being given the chance to further themselves.

Probablythe least "christian" nation in the west at the time. Incredible really, more like Saudi or some Taliban state.

Morag

clairefontaine wrote: »

Ah got ya. So it was more about being soiled.

Still though... I can't see too many people today offering housing, clothing, etc for these girls and women.

We do help provide housing, clothing ect for those girls and women as you put it and their children, it's called paying taxes and prsi, which pay for a range of things including lone parents allowances( which started out as deserted wives payment and evolved into lone parents), child benefit and rent alliance.

clairefontaine

Morag wrote: »

We do help provide housing, clothing ect for those girls and women as you put it and their children, it's called paying taxes and prsi, which pay for a range of things including lone parents allowances, child benefit and rent alliance.

Yes I realise that. But if the state didn't pick up the slack, I doubt the normal every day citizens would.

Do you think they would? Or do you think they would be happy enough turning a blind eye to their disappearance?

Morag

Are you really that ignorant of the history surrounding single parents in this country?

1972 saw the setting up of Cherish and those involved lobbied to change the system
and people agreed with them and it was changed. The State didn't suddenly decided to 'take up the slack' as you put it.

http://www.onefamily.ie/about-us/our-history/

One Family began life as Cherish in 1972. In that year, a group of single mothers, led by Maura Richards (née O’Dea), set about reaching others in the same situation. Founder member, Colette O’Neill, suggested Cherish as a name for the group, taken from the 1916 Proclamation, which declared that Ireland would ‘cherish all of the children of the nation equally’.

Unfortunately in 1972, this was often not the case, and single pregnant women were often thrown out of their homes, lost their jobs and were rejected by their communities. Cherish was set up to provide such women and children with a voice, empowering women to help themselves and their families.

Mary Robinson, Cherish’s first President, who only resigned when she became President of Ireland in 1990, has described Cherish as one of Ireland’s first self-help groups.

As an organisation, Cherish not only provided services to single parents and their children, but also campaigned for change. While many changes were brought about, the two most significant were the introduction of the unmarried mother’s allowance and the abolition of the status of illegitimacy.

In 1973, after much hard lobbying work, Cherish celebrated the introduction of the unmarried mother’s allowance – the first social welfare payment to acknowledge the existence of women bringing up children on their own.

In 1987, after many years of campaigning, the Status of Children Act finally abolished the status of illegitimacy.

When developing the Strategic Plan for 2004–06, it became clear that the society in which we offer our services is very different and that one-parent families exist in many forms in Ireland today. It is in recognition of these changes that we extended our services to all members of all one-parent families, and renamed ourselves One Family.

As One Family we continue to work to affect positive change and achieve equality and social inclusion for all one-parent families in Ireland. In 2009 One Family merged with Gingerbread Ireland and assumed operational responsibility for them. As part of our Strategy 2010-2012 we look forward to marking 40 years of our leading and radical organisation.
Our Founders



Maura O’Dea Richards

Together with a small group of women, Maura founded One Family (formerly Cherish) back in 1972 because she was a single unmarried mother who decided she wanted to keep and raise her child herself. With the help of compassionate friends such as the then Senator Mary Robinson, their little group blossomed and became a major force for change in our society.

lazygal

clairefontaine wrote: »

Yes I realise that. But if the state didn't pick up the slack, I doubt the normal every day citizens would.

Do you think they would? Or do you think they would be happy enough turning a blind eye to their disappearance?

I think a modern state should pick up the slack. Leaving all social services and support to private bodies with vested interests hasn't served us well.

clairefontaine

clairefontaine wrote: »

Do you think they would? Or do you think they would be happy enough turning a blind eye to their disappearance?

I think that would depend on awareness and perceived value. People would be a lot more willing to turn a blind eye to the institutionalisation of Travellers say, or girls born on the lowest rung of the economic ladder. I don't think that would generate a huge amount of publicity and concomitant awareness in comparison to the daughters of well-to-do families.

And if people believed these girls were being treated well by a charitable organisation with their welfare at heart, then they'd probably be very comfortable with turning a blind eye.

coffee_cake

lazygal wrote: »

I think a modern state should pick up the slack. Leaving all social services and support to private bodies with vested interests hasn't served us well.

The private bodies were supported by the state, used the power of the state, had the state refer women to them and the industrial schools. The state is the last thing I would want given that power again

clairefontaine

lazygal wrote: »

I think a modern state should pick up the slack. Leaving all social services and support to private bodies with vested interests hasn't served us well.

Ok. All I'm saying is that if it didn't, I don't think the individual citizens of today would be much different in not stepping up than they were back then. Im just a little bit irritated by all the civilised outrage, not because I defend the Church at all, but because I don't think most of the outraged today would have been that different from those complicit back then.

lazygal

bluewolf wrote: »

The private bodies were supported by the state, used the power of the state, had the state refer women to them and the industrial schools. The state is the last thing I would want given that power again

So which bodies should be given the power? What model of social services and support do you propose?

coffee_cake

lazygal wrote: »

So which bodies should be given the power? What model of social services and support do you propose?

Well, I think an important first step is to realise the state is going to have its own vested interests as well - the fact these things were previously such awful laws and got repealed by campaigning by private groups highlights this even further. Let private bodies completely independently be charitable

Posy

It's not the state or even the nuns I feel the most contempt for over Irish society at the time- it's the families who dumped their daughters into these places.

A lot of young girls with mental disabilities were abandoned and left to the 'care' of the nuns. Their families clearly didn't care what happened to their daughters and left them to rot. You could be released from a Magdalene Laundry if a family member came to take you away but they just left them in these places for life.
A young girl tells her 'loved ones' that she's been raped and they kick her out and leave her to be locked away even though she was the victim??
The families who couldn't bear the stigma of their daughter being a single mother and rejected her- not caring what happened to her! Like Christina in the fantastic youtube link posted on this thread by Macha who was released from the laundry and brought home, only for her father to ask "What do you think you want? You're not coming into this house. You've disgraced us. You're not right in the head to have brought a child into the world and deserve punishment." She had the chance to come home but her father left her to be sent to a Magdalene Laundry instead- like having her child taken away from her wasn't bad enough?!

I know that the treatment from many of the nuns was inhumane and a lot of those locked up in these hellholes were already in state care but I will genuinely never fathom how individual families just turned their backs on their daughters and didn't give a damn that they were leaving them to be locked away in squalor for the rest of their lives.

Sparklygirl

vitani wrote: »

I often find myself wondering what the big scandals of this generation are - what, in 20/30 years, will our children look back on and find themselves disgusted by.

Quite simply, the abuse that goes on every day in many instututions all around this country for people with intellectual disability. There have been newspaper reports and documentaries on this many times and no uproar. I have made my voice heard with regards to it but I know of no one else personally, who is bothered.

mariaalice

Sparklygirl wrote: »

Quite simply, the abuse that goes on every day in many institutions all around this country for people with intellectual disability. There have been newspaper reports and documentaries on this many times and no uproar. I have made my voice heard with regards to it but I know of no one else personally, who is bothered.

Regulation is the answer to a lot of the problems, for example crèches are regulated and so are nursing homes. Any place that looks after people who are vulnerable or any place that cares for children needs to be be very well regulated.

clairefontaine

Was slavery legal at the time?

If not then they all have a huge case both for compensation and prosecution.

Lia_lia

Found out today that a friend of mine is a "magdalen baby". Around the same age as me (early-mid 20s) and was adopted. Didn't think it went on till that late!

vitani

Sparklygirl wrote: »

Quite simply, the abuse that goes on every day in many instututions all around this country for people with intellectual disability. There have been newspaper reports and documentaries on this many times and no uproar. I have made my voice heard with regards to it but I know of no one else personally, who is bothered.

Would you mind PMing me links to some reports?

jeni

I know a women whos mother put her and her four sibhlings in to a laundry and went to england married a man and had three more kids, never saw her five kids in iteland again, what kind of women does that by choice ;(

Stepping Stone

In relation to all the people saying that people know, I doubt it.

I am from a rural area, far from where the nearest laundry would have been. I asked my parents about them. They are in their 60s now, but said that they had no idea what went on in them, beyond providing a laundry service. My mother said that the only association she ever had with them was working as a chamber maid in a hotel. The bed linen used to get washed in one and would come back with cockroaches in it. She said she never gave it a second thought.

I asked about people getting sent to them and they said that they never heard of anyone getting sent to them. Lots of children went to live with relatives far away (particularly with aunts and uncles who didn't have children of their own) and young women left the area to find work. They presume that it would have been discreetly organised and people would say that the person who had been sent away had gone to somewhere like Dublin or Galway. Nobody would have batted an eye, because it was so common for people to leave. Nobody would want their dirty little secret known, so I can well imagine that a lot of people didn't know.

My dad knew some 'bad boys' who were sent to industrial homes for not going to school. They were sent for a week, learned their lessons and came home to behave. He said that they knew that you would be beaten in those homes because you were beaten in school. He said that his parents would think nothing of them getting a hiding at school in the same way that he would think of me getting two essays in one night (pity, but suck it up mentality).

Ireland was a funny place in the past, so many secrets, so much ignorance. I am not convinced at all that people knew or thought much of these places unless they lived or worked in or near them.

barney4001

I heard this book discussed on Talk With Joe on rte this week,there was also 3 women telling of thier experience with these homes in U S A


http://www.amazon.com/The-Light-Window-June-Goulding/dp/0091902053