does anyone have their cows out?

freedominacup

funny man wrote: »

silage will rarely test better than grass. unless old unreseeded ground or very heavy covers carried over the winter.

Whatever about "tests" we would always have found an increase in yields and soliids with autumn calvers once they come inside fulltime in the backend. An increase in costs also. I doubt if grass from mid-Nov to mid-Feb would even be close to good silage and I say this as someone who expects to have cows at grass 300 days per year.

funny man

freedominacup wrote: »

Whatever about "tests" we would always have found an increase in yields and soliids with autumn calvers once they come inside fulltime in the backend. An increase in costs also. I doubt if grass from mid-Nov to mid-Feb would even be close to good silage and I say this as someone who expects to have cows at grass 300 days per year.

November grass is low dry matter (i've seen as low as 12%), so this would lead to an energy imbalance. spring grass carried over unless more than 1400kgs or 2900kgs total cover is usually from 16-25%dm with a CP of 18%. if you are getting cows out for 300 days i'm sure you are well aware that when you let milkers to grass in the spring they go up in milk, this is due to the higher ME and CP in the grass over silage.

mahoney_j

Opened the gates yesterday and let fresh calvers off ,In last night and out again today.Hopefully weather wont get too wet and they can stay out by day at least and possibly by night as ground conditions improve.The benefits of getting cowws out if only for a few hours per day far outweigh any precieved negatives.Cows have to go out with an appetite though.I milk at about 7 am and leave cows standing in yard after milking till about half 10 and then let them off.They go out with an appetite and depending on the day they will come back in after 3 to 4 hours if weather is wet or cold but if weather is ok theyre out for the day

freedominacup

mahoney_j wrote: »

Opened the gates yesterday and let fresh calvers off ,In last night and out again today.Hopefully weather wont get too wet and they can stay out by day at least and possibly by night as ground conditions improve.The benefits of getting cowws out if only for a few hours per day far outweigh any precieved negatives.Cows have to go out with an appetite though.I milk at about 7 am and leave cows standing in yard after milking till about half 10 and then let them off.They go out with an appetite and depending on the day they will come back in after 3 to 4 hours if weather is wet or cold but if weather is ok theyre out for the day

Ours would be out of feeding sometime during the night probably 3-4 in the morning and go straight out after milking but other than that same as yourself if conditions are ok they stay out until the evening.

funny man

What's the thoughts on on/off grazing? i tried it hear and found it too hard on the cow. it maybe ok for a couple of days but over time i think cows need some stable feed when conditions are poor.

freedominacup

funny man wrote: »

. spring grass carried over is usually from 16-25%dm with a CP of 18%.

if you are getting cows out for 300 days i'm sure you are well aware that when you let milkers to grass in the spring they go up in milk, this is due to the higher ME and CP in the grass over silage.

Good silage will have a dm of around 25% as a minimum with protein of around 15% and an ME figure of 11.5 to 12.

I wouldn't agree at all that milkers automatically go up at turnout in fact we'd normally be monitoring performance closely at turnout to try to make sure that yields don't drop.

stanflt

im gonna maybe regret saying this- but with current conditions and feed crisis. poor bcs on most spring herds and the fact that cows will be under fed post calving there will be no superlevy in 2014

case 5150

think/hope your right stan, we were banking on a early spring but dat didnt happen. btw have you your cows out stan

stanflt

case 5150 wrote: »

think/hope your right stan, we were banking on a early spring but dat didnt happen. btw have you your cows out stan

no ive loads of grass but conditions are to wet- id love to have them out for 2-3hrs a day but with the dm levels so low the cows intake would be negatively affected. with a couple days drying ill have them out- really need to get them out or the second round of grazing will be too low of covers, feb is the month when you set yourself up for the year

funny man

freedominacup wrote: »

Good silage will have a dm of around 25% as a minimum with protein of around 15% and an ME figure of 11.5 to 12.

I wouldn't agree at all that milkers automatically go up at turnout in fact we'd normally be monitoring performance closely at turnout to try to make sure that yields don't drop.

unless silage is exceptional UFL of grass always higher. what covers do you turn out to, yields dropping at grass would be a serious concern.

bob charles

Sounds like some people are starting to believe me about the quality of current grass. Comfort and excerise are the main things cows will get from being outdoors so early. but dont underestimate the power of this. People that see a rise in production when cows go out should take a good look are their winter diets as they mustnt be up to much.

stanflt

bob charles wrote: »

Sounds like some people are starting to believe me about the quality of current grass. Comfort and excerise are the main things cows will get from being outdoors so early. but dont underestimate the power of this. People that see a rise in production when cows go out should take a good look are their winter diets as they mustnt be up to much.

ignorance is bliss bob:D:D:D:D

case 5150

bob charles wrote: »

Sounds like some people are starting to believe me about the quality of current grass. Comfort and excerise are the main things cows will get from being outdoors so early. but dont underestimate the power of this. People that see a rise in production when cows go out should take a good look are their winter diets as they mustnt be up to much.

i have silage here 75% dmd but it not bout the silage it cost alot to produce milk indoors, get cows out to grass in feb allows the farm to be set up for the grazing year, now there whole diet isnt grass there getting concentrates as well as grass silage but at the same time solids is rising and the grazing is been set up properl, how many farms that let cows out in march been grazing stemmy grass in may, i can say a lot because they havent there farm set up for second round grazing in april and it ther pockets taking the hit, grass based system = jingles in ur pocket

stanflt

case 5150 wrote: »

i have silage here 75% dmd but it not bout the silage it cost alot to produce milk indoors, get cows out to grass in feb allows the farm to be set up for the grazing year, now there whole diet isnt grass there getting concentrates as well as grass silage but at the same time solids is rising and the grazing is been set up properl, how many farms that let cows out in march been grazing stemmy grass in may, i can say a lot because they havent there farm set up for second round grazing in april and it ther pockets taking the hit, grass based system = jingles in ur pocket

couldnt have said it better myself

bob charles

may I ask anyone who can answer at what price do you cost grass per kg/DM?

Its very important getting set up for the grazing season but if a sward gets damaging at this side of christmas I can assure you its going to be back on kgs produced for the year.

stanflt

bob charles wrote: »

may I ask anyone who can answer at what price do you cost grass per kg/DM?

Its very important getting set up for the grazing season but if a sward gets damaging at this side of christmas I can assure you its going to be back on kgs produced for the year.

growing 16ton of dry matter per hectare it costs about 30-35 euro per ton of dm compared to 120 /ton silage

awaywithyou

stanflt wrote: »

growing 16ton of dry matter per hectare it costs about 30-35 euro per ton of dm compared to 120 /ton silage

do you follow teagasc spring rotation planner for the first round....?

stanflt

no i do my own to weather conditions but make sure that i finish first round by 1april- if i cant get out earlier i will graze a large % of farm in the first few days so i will get the regrowth going- unfortunately as i have a lot of grass this might not be possible

delaval

freedominacup wrote: »

We put them out around 4 weeks ago but they spent more of weeks 2 and 3 in than out and really only got going in the past few days. Silage intake is down by around 50% since last weekend. We won't touch concentrate levels for a few weeks yet as I doubt if the grass is as good as good silage yet. We turnout as soon as we can simply for the health and comfort benefits. In the past week the cows would spend more time eating indoors than lying down and would spend a good bit of time outdoors lying down.

Out very early, 3 wks ago what was your opening cover?

delaval

stanflt wrote: »

growing 16ton of dry matter per hectare it costs about 30-35 euro per ton of dm compared to 120 /ton silage

16 tonne are you achieving this on all hectares

bob charles

stanflt wrote: »

growing 16ton of dry matter per hectare it costs about 30-35 euro per ton of dm compared to 120 /ton silage

so 16t/ha X €32t(average of your figure) = 512 a year in cost of producing grass per ha or €204 an acre cost. rental or opportunity costs for most would be at least €150 an acre or €375 per ha

I know the cost of grass and it isnt remotely close to €30 a ton DM

delaval

I work on 4-5c per kilo dm and 12/kg for silage

freedominacup

funny man wrote: »

unless silage is exceptional UFL of grass always higher. what covers do you turn out to, yields dropping at grass would be a serious concern.

Yields will drop because grass in early spring doesn't give the same intakes as a good quality winter diet. At best grass will give intakes of 16-18 kgs DM cows need at least 2 kgs more than this in early lactation.

delaval

freedominacup wrote: »

Yields will drop because grass in early spring doesn't give the same intakes as a good quality winter diet. At best grass will give intakes of 16-18 kgs DM cows need at least 2 kgs more than this in early lactation.

A fresh calved cow doesn't have a hope of taking in 16-18 kg from spring grass. We work on then taking on board 12-13kg maxing at 17

freedominacup

delaval wrote: »

A fresh calved cow doesn't have a hope of taking in 16-18 kg from spring grass. We work on then taking on board 12-13kg maxing at 17

We would expect that with two forages to get intakes in the order of 22-24 kgs on fresh calvers yielding 35-40litres. They need that much for those yields. I would never count weight loss into my diets and hope to prevent it as much as possible.

delaval

freedominacup wrote: »

We would expect that with two forages to get intakes in the order of 22-24 kgs on fresh calvers yielding 35-40litres. They need that much for those yields. I would never count weight loss into my diets and hope to prevent it as much as possible.

Spring calved cow calved 2 weeks milking 40 litres maybe an excepional one but not them all

freedominacup

delaval wrote: »

Spring calved cow calved 2 weeks milking 40 litres maybe an excepional one but not them all

It would be a mixture of autumn and spring calved cows with a herd average N of 9000kgs.

delaval

freedominacup wrote: »

It would be a mixture of autumn and spring calved cows with a herd average N of 9000kgs.

Would you post your DPM? I have a similar set up with lower yields 1200kg ms/ha. We are 80:20 Spring/Autumn

delaval

What are your fresh cows and heifs milking?

freedominacup

delaval wrote: »

Would you post your DPM? I have a similar set up with lower yields 1200kg ms/ha. We are 80:20 Spring/Autumn

Honestly haven't got one done yet. I'll see if I can dig out the old one.
We're re-stocking so stocking rates are low would be nothing like 1200 kg ms/ha esp across whole farm.