Turbo Cider - a question or 2

stenan

Got another batch done this time I put a can of redbull in with it at the start. The smell of alcohol off it when I was bottling it. Hope it doesn't kill me!!!!

Ronan|Raven

Red bull.. that just sounds dangerous!

Ronan|Raven

On a different note and not wanting to start a new thread.. lidl have 2l cartons of their 100% juice from concentrate for 1:79 at the moment.

Khannie

It doesn't make nice cider IMO. Tried it before and even after a long time in the bottle it wasn't great.

laurence997

We have our first 25L batch of cider on here, racked it off the lees after a week in the FV on Tuesday, siphoned it into another one of the buckets. The place was at 21/22 degrees so a bit warm and fermented fast, but we'll see how it works out. We didn't add any raisins, just sugar and tea, but maybe next time. OG of 1.055, FG of 1.002, though I suspect that may have gone to about 1.000 in the secondary container.
Has anybody here ever tried pasteurising so that they can backsweeten with a fermentable sugar? I had it in the mind to sweeten to taste with apple juice next week, throw a carbonation drop into each of the bottles and when the carbonation level is right pasteurise on the stove.

These pasteurisation cookers look like the job, they would be very handy if you were making enough cider to warrant the price. The plastic ones on that site seem cheap enough to give it a shot.
http://www.bielmeier-hausgeraete.com/en/Preserving-Cooker-Mulled-Wine-Machine/Acid-Resistant/BIELMEIER-Preserving-Cooker-BHG-685-0.html

BeerNut

laurence997 wrote: »

I had it in the mind to sweeten to taste with apple juice next week

Sweetening to taste with apple juice only works at serving time. Any apple juice you add when the yeast is alive will just be fermented away a few days later.

laurence997

BeerNut wrote: »

Sweetening to taste with apple juice only works at serving time. Any apple juice you add when the yeast is alive will just be fermented away a few days later.

If you sweeten to taste then add the carbonation drop the idea is that the amount of sugar fermented for the fizz is equal to that of the carbonation drop, then you pasteurise after you have an adequate level of fizz and the yeast dies, leaving sugar levels roughly equivalent to the sugar that was in the apple juice.
Having never done this before I'm not qualified to talk, but other people do it and swear by it.

BeerNut

laurence997 wrote: »

If you sweeten to taste then add the carbonation drop the idea is that the amount of sugar fermented for the fizz is equal to that of the carbonation drop, then you pasteurise after you have an adequate level of fizz

Sound theory, I guess, but there's no way I'd risk sealing in an explosive amount of fermentables in the hope that I'll be able to stop the process at the right point by guessing. Adding the apple juice when serving sounds like a much easier and safer way of achieving the same thing.

laurence997

BeerNut wrote: »

Sound theory, I guess, but there's no way I'd risk sealing in an explosive amount of fermentables in the hope that I'll be able to stop the process at the right point by guessing. Adding the apple juice when serving sounds like a much easier and safer way of achieving the same thing.

Well what I've seen done is lads putting a bottle of the batch into a plastic bottle, like a coke bottle. Then you can feel the pressure building in that bottle, giving you a good idea of what the level of carbonation is in the glass bottles. That said, if you don't manage to kill the yeast pasteurising ...... :eek:

BeerNut

laurence997 wrote: »

Then you can feel the pressure building in that bottle, giving you a good idea of what the level of carbonation is in the glass bottles.

I think it would take me a few goes to be able to relate squeezability to actual fizziness. I just don't see what's to be gained by it. I'd say your shelf-life is going to be shortened by pasteurisation too.

loyatemu

you're talking about bottling it all until its fizzy then pouring it back into the pasteuriser, then rebottling it? that's a hell of a lot of work. Also the pasteurising process would release a lot of the fizz and any CO2 that was left afterwards would make it difficult to rebottle. Doesn't sound like a runner to me...

Only option I can see is to pasteurise before bottling, sweeten, bottle and then force-carbonate using CO2.

BeerNut

loyatemu wrote: »

then pouring it back into the pasteuriser, then rebottling it?

No, you just heat the closed bottle and the contents are pasteurised.

loyatemu

BeerNut wrote: »

No, you just heat the closed bottle and the contents are pasteurised.

OK - sounds like a recipe for explosions.

laurence997

loyatemu wrote: »

OK - sounds like a recipe for explosions.

It does surely, especially if you took your eye off the ball and let it build a bit too much fizz, you couldn't pasteurise it then or they'd blow, and you couldn't just leave them either. You'd have to recap them all I suspect. But I just mentioned it because I've read a few threads where people have done it successfully and it seemed to be a good way of having the entire process finished, not having to add sweetener tablets or apple juice at serving time. Would make it easier to give a few bottles away for sure.

drumswan

This thread should come with a health warning! No wonder they call cider a madmans drink, between fermenting red bull and building bottle bombs.

Mine is three weeks conditioning in the bottle after two weeks in the FV, is there considerable benefit in leaving it to condition further?

willabur

laurence997 wrote: »

It does surely, especially if you took your eye off the ball and let it build a bit too much fizz, you couldn't pasteurise it then or they'd blow, and you couldn't just leave them either. You'd have to recap them all I suspect. But I just mentioned it because I've read a few threads where people have done it successfully and it seemed to be a good way of having the entire process finished, not having to add sweetener tablets or apple juice at serving time. Would make it easier to give a few bottles away for sure.

Hows about using something unfermentable like Lactose?

evolving_doors

Was there something about pasturising in a dishwasher!!! (or was that cooking salmon in a dishwasher)... reminds me of that H.G. Wells story the diamond maker..(although he used a pressure cooker!)....

I think in the heel of the hunt just adding about 80mill of apple juice when pouring can liven a dry tasteless cider pretty well enough...

laurence997

Armelodie wrote: »

Was there something about pasturising in a dishwasher!!! (or was that cooking salmon in a dishwasher)... reminds me of that H.G. Wells story the diamond maker..(although he used a pressure cooker!)....

I think in the heel of the hunt just adding about 80mill of apple juice when pouring can liven a dry tasteless cider pretty well enough...

Indeed yes, I've heard that myself, but there's no hope I'd depend on a dishwasher to reach those temperatures, definitely not a modern energy efficient one. I might check to see does ours have an extra hot wash, but unless I could get my hands on a wireless temperature probe I wouldn't chance it (although I might seal an arduino in a lunchbox and get a temperature sensor for that. It's a little computer, for want of a better word, and could be put inside the dishwasher to see if it gets to over 60 degrees(minimum) for ten mins at a time).
I had heard the apple juice works really well with it, like you said. I'm just trying to find a way yup be able to give away a bottle or 2 without having to give instructions on how to drink it.

willabur wrote: »

Hows about using something unfermentable like Lactose?

Yeah, there are a few unfermentable sugars you can use, lactose, spleda, stevia etc, khannie here seems to use splenda or other sweetener tabs almost exclusively and that seems like a simple way of doing it, plus he appears to get great results. A few people I've been talking to just have huge problems with the taste of splenda, apparently it has an aftertaste that some people can't bear. Similarly, lactose is meant to make the taste a bit creamy, and pure stevia is hard to track down and might have a taste too, depending on the brand and purity.

I tasted some of the cider today, it's mellowed out a good bit in the last few days, still a long way to go.

loyatemu

drumswan wrote: »

This thread should come with a health warning! No wonder they call cider a madmans drink, between fermenting red bull and building bottle bombs.

Mine is three weeks conditioning in the bottle after two weeks in the FV, is there considerable benefit in leaving it to condition further?

yes - it gets better and better the longer you leave it.

racked my homegrown cider off into demijohns this evening, just boiling up some tea and raisins now. Tasted great when I was syphoning it, shame I didn't manage to get more juice out of the apples (only got about 8L).

laurence997

loyatemu wrote: »

racked my homegrown cider off into demijohns this evening

What varieties of apple's do you use yourself, do you mind me asking? And does the pectolase clear the juice fully?

loyatemu

laurence997 wrote: »

What varieties of apple's do you use yourself, do you mind me asking? And does the pectolase clear the juice fully?

no idea - red ones, and a few russets :pac: - they're my dads trees, he'd know what variety they are.

It wasn't particularly clear when I racked it off last night, but in previous years it has cleared quite well in the bottle (though I primed with sugar those times and I'm probably going to use more cloudy apple this time).

laurence997

Copella is on special offer in Tesco, was roughly 1.50 per liter in the 1.25l bottles, there were only 10 bottles in coonagh cross in limerick but I'll try the crescent tomorrow. Might be worth trying it to compare to Lidl apple juice. It uses ascorbic acid for preservative too, for the record.

sham69

Newbie here:

I Have been following this thread for about 6 months and am finally taking the plunge.

I have ordered:
a 33l Fermenting bucket
24 plastic 50ml bottles.
A siphon (I don't even know if I need it
and some sterilising tablets/powder.

I am going to try the basic turbo cider and see how I go.
Only question I have at the moment (whilst waiting for delivery of equipment) is what yeast should I use?

I have a lot of tesco normal dry yeast, I do a bit of baking so use a lot of yeast, will this do the job?
Thanks.
Sham

sham69

oh and a hydrometer...

laurence997

sham69 wrote: »

I am going to try the basic turbo cider and see how I go.
Only question I have at the moment (whilst waiting for delivery of equipment) is what yeas
I have a lot of tesco normal dry yeast, I do a bit of baking so use a lot of yeast, will this do the job?
Thanks.
Sham

From what I've read on this thread an others: yes, it will work but the taste will probably not be very good. Better off buying some cider yeast (or even champagne or ale yeasts). They only cost a few euros for a sachet and I'm sure the results will be far better afterwards

On a side note, the cider I bottled about a month back never carbonated, even after adding carbonation drops. Obviously racking it twice took the yeast out of it. Still, only about half the bottles are left now, must get the fermenters out again

sham69

Thanks for the reply.
Everything sounds straightforward enough although it always does until you get into the practical side of it and then realise you havent a clue what you're doing.

Ah its worth a try.
I'll see if I can add some yeast to my order..

evolving_doors

sham69 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.
Everything sounds straightforward enough although it always does until you get into the practical side of it and then realise you havent a clue what you're doing.

Ah its worth a try.
I'll see if I can add some yeast to my order..

Ok basically I've discovered what works for me after much farting about with adjuncts..

Lidl applesaft (not from concentrate)
Brew Sugar
Youngs cider yeast
Condition with the brew sugar mixed with warm applesaft
And thats it...!

No tea
No raisins
No honey
No real apples to be sived pulsed etc.

Its actually the best cider I've made so far! I left it in the DJ for about 7 weeks with gunk floating on the top and bottom so was fully prepaired to dump it but 2 months later its the biz..

Where to go from here?
Nowhere, try the exact same again and see if I just got lucky!

sham69

Armelodie wrote: »

Ok basically I've discovered what works for me after much farting about with adjuncts..

Lidl applesaft (not from concentrate)
Brew Sugar
Youngs cider yeast
Condition with the brew sugar mixed with warm applesaft
And thats it...!

No tea
No raisins
No honey
No real apples to be sived pulsed etc.

Its actually the best cider I've made so far! I left it in the DJ for about 7 weeks with gunk floating on the top and bottom so was fully prepaired to dump it but 2 months later its the biz..

Where to go from here?
Nowhere, try the exact same again and see if I just got lucky!

Thanks for the reply.
I forgot to buy the yeast (thought I could use normal yeast) and didnt know about the brew sugar..

When you say " condition with the brew sugar mixed with warm applesaft" what exactly do you mean, for the priming?
Or for the main mix in the fermenting bucket?

I am starting to doubt myself now, not sure if bucket has tap on it etc.
Do I need to use an airlock, will I get blowouts etc.

I think I am watching too many youtube videos

evolving_doors

sham69 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.
I forgot to buy the yeast (thought I could use normal yeast) and didnt know about the brew sugar..

When you say " condition with the brew sugar mixed with warm applesaft" what exactly do you mean, for the priming?
Or for the main mix in the fermenting bucket.

I am starting to doubt myself now, not sure if bucket has tap on it etc.
Do I need to use an airlock, will I get blowouts etc.

I think I am watching too many youtube videos

Firstly...get proper yeast..if you email some of the irish companies they should post it on request without bulk shipping cost.

Next...conditioning/priming with AJ and brew sugar is when the first fermentation is complete and reading is around 1.000. Then you can bottle (or leave for a week or two and then bottle). At this stage if you bottle as is then you will have flat cider. If you want the fizz then add some sugar (about 4 gm) , or some apple juice (room temp.) About a fingernail height in the bottle. Or a bit of both which is what im talkinbout...
Cap and wait (leave it in a room about 16 -25deg-)

Dont worry about the tap...you should be using a syphon tube (with a valve)to fill the bottles anyhow.
Dont worry about the bubbler , although its handy to visually see when fermentation has started and finished.

Id say if its you first foray into TC use a few 5l demijohns rather than the 25 L tub. It allows you to experiment with different mixes, rather than having 40 odd bottles of stuff you might find too sweet.

sham69

Thanks for the reply.
I ordered some cider yeast yesterday and the rest of the stuff has arrived.
My siphon didnt arrive though.
Was just going to use sweetener for the priming.
As its my first time I'm sure i'll mess up somewhere but I suppose thats how I will learn.

Looking forward to getting started.
Doubt it will be ready for Xmas though