Turbo Cider - a question or 2

Brewie

Hi all,

I'm going to try make some turbo cider. I found this recipe on boards posted by Khannie
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81645821


Recipe: Cloudy apple juice turbo cider
A few people have PM'd me for this, so here's the standard cloudy apple juice turbo cider that I make. Recipe stolen from elsewhere. Input also from BeerNut (thanks).

Lots of lidl or aldi cloudy apple juice (pic of the lidl one).
Some raisins - sunmaid are best as they have no added oil. Not too many. Even a small amount can raise the OG considerably.
Tea bags - I use 1 tea bag per 7-8L of apple juice.
1 sachet yeast.

Pour all the juice into your fermenting bucket. It helps speed things up considerably if you pierce a hole with a sanitised knife diagonally opposite the pouring hole.
Simmer the tea bags until you have real tar. Don't use too much water here. It'll water down your cider.
Add the raisins to the boil mix a few minutes before you're finished boiling.
Remove the tea bags.
I use a blending wand to make a mess out of the raisins at this point to expose the sugars to the yeast. I'm not overly aggressive. Just enough to make chunks of raisin.
Dump the tea and raisin mix into your apple juice.
Sprinkle yeast on top.
Wait about 2 weeks.
Prime, bottle.


Just to be sure I am reading this correctly the following steps should be performed;

1. Pour all the juice into the ferm. bin (23 litres - I have a 33l bin)
2. do the boiling/simmering tea bags & raisin step and then put in ferm bin. I think I will go for 3 teabags and a little under a cup of raisins for my attempt.
3. Put the yeast in on top. Question - how much yeast? (I bought some cider yeast when buying my kit - suitable for 5gallons (22.7litres) so I think I'll just throw the lot in.
4. Leave the mixture in the bin fermenting until I get a bubble every couple of minutes (taken from the "Homebrew Beer Howto" sticky). Should take about too weeks according to many posts on the internet.
5. Next step I prime the bottles. Which is best? A teaspoon of sugar per bottle (500ml) or some good quality apple juice? Not sure what to do here.
6. After bottles primed & filled, I leave it at least 4 weeks, then the drinking may begin.

How does that sound? Am I heading in the right direction?

Khannie

Sounds like you have it spot on. These days I usually "mince" the raisins with a hand blender to expose the sugar once I've boiled them for a bit. 3 tea bags is about right IMO.

I prefer to prime with apple juice. If you can do a batch prime that's handiest (do you have a second bucket?).

It's drinkable within 2 weeks of bottling, better after 4 and very tasty indeed after 8. I hear it peaks after about 6 months, but it has never lasted that long in my house.

Brewie

Khannie wrote: »

I prefer to prime with apple juice. If you can do a batch prime that's handiest (do you have a second bucket?).

It's drinkable within 2 weeks of bottling, better after 4 and very tasty indeed after 8. I hear it peaks after about 6 months, but it has never lasted that long in my house.

When you say Batch Prime you mean to move the fermented mixture into a second bin with the primer. Therefore only needing to prime once instead of every bottle? I just want to be 100% sure in what I am doing.

How much apple juice should I use to prime the fermented stuff? Any recommendations? Also, is there any highly recommended/tried & tested apple juices to use as a primer?

I plan on using 500ml bottles. So the first bottles will be opened after 4 weeks in the bottle. At roughly 6 or 8 bottles per my once weekly night of consumption. As the weeks pass it should be getting progressively tastier by the time I get around to the last few, say total time in the bottle 7 - 10 weeks.

Khannie

Brewie wrote: »

When you say Batch Prime you mean to move the fermented mixture into a second bin with the primer. Therefore only needing to prime once instead of every bottle? I just want to be 100% sure in what I am doing.

Yep. Siphon (or use your tap with a tube) the fermented cider into a second bucket that has the new apple juice already in it.

Brewie wrote: »

How much apple juice should I use to prime the fermented stuff? Any recommendations? Also, is there any highly recommended/tried & tested apple juices to use as a primer?

I use the same cloudy apple juice to prime with. I like it quite fizzy so I go with at least 5g of sugar per 500ml. You can get 5g sugar per 500ml with approximately 1L of cloudy apple juice per 10L of fermented cider. For your batch that's a bit over 2 cartons of apple juice, but you could get away with 2 cartons by dissolving a small amount of sugar in.

These days I push it out to 7g of sugar per 500ml. I'm mad for the fizz.

Brewie wrote: »

I plan on using 500ml bottles. So the first bottles will be opened after 4 weeks in the bottle. At roughly 6 or 8 bottles per my once weekly night of consumption. As the weeks pass it should be getting progressively tastier by the time I get around to the last few, say total time in the bottle 7 - 10 weeks.

Sounds like a plan. Enjoy!

Carawaystick

Do the raisins add any tannins, they are from red grapes, while sultanas are green grapes ?

eurofoxy

what type of tea bag do you use? is it best to use a black tea or can you use a lipton green tea?

Khannie

Carawaystick wrote: »

Do the raisins add any tannins, they are from red grapes, while sultanas are green grapes ?

I have no clue. Seems logical though.

eurofoxy wrote: »

what type of tea bag do you use? is it best to use a black tea or can you use a lipton green tea?

I usually use mostly decaf lyons (because I try to avoid caffeine late at night, which is almost invariably when I'm drinking) and some normal barry's gold blend (because it's mega). In a 25L or more batch I'd usually use 4 tea bags. With the last two batches I took my chances and left the tea bags in the fermenter. They have been my nicest brews yet, though I can't be certain that leaving the tea bags in is what caused that.

tommiet

ok, what do the tea bags and rasins do for the brew and what yeast do ye use... I've brewed 5 litres of aldi apple juice (99c a litre) and used this yeast it was grand, got better with age, i've tired other ideas but most of it ended up too dry for my liking...

http://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/cider-yeast-with-sweetener-p-883.html

Khannie

The cloudy apple juice from aldi and lidl makes a much nicer brew than the concentrate stuff.

I use normal cider yeast, then add the sweetener myself at priming / bottling time. You have control over the sweetness that way. I use either splenda tablets or the much cheaper lidl sweetener tablets (they're cyclamate and saccharine based).

tommiet

how much sweeter to how much cider, whats the ratio....

Khannie

Depends how sweet you want it. Bulmers sweet is probably five lidl tabs or four splenda tabs per half litre. You'd need to dissolve them in the batch prime mix. The splenda tabs need heat. the lidl ones don't.

Brewie

I read somewhere that Champagne yeast makes cider alot dryer than the cider yeast linke above? Is this true.

The yeast and sanatizer arrived this morning so making it tomorrow

evolving_doors

Brewie wrote: »

I read somewhere that Champagne yeast makes cider alot dryer than the cider yeast linke above? Is this true.

The yeast and sanatizer arrived this morning so making it tomorrow

ya I find that with the lalvin_118 alright...splenda during bottling should help.. our juice some sweet apples and about 25 mls per bottle.
Good fizz and fermentation out of the lalvin though... Mines rocketing away for the last 6 days at 16 degrees! Although I used a spoon of yeast nutrient for the first time...

KAGY

Hope I'm not hijacking here, but it's on topic.

Starting a similar cider today , I'm not looking for a blow yer head off cider, just something nice and fruity to drink when we get our one week of summer.

I have two wine yeasts to hand, Lalvin 71B and K1.
Tried googling but I'm even more confused now:
71B - good for semi sweet wines, produces aromatic esters, reduces malic acid softening the drink
K1 - good for difficult fermentation condition, good for fresh fruit white wines

I know that both of these will leave me with a dry cider, but I'll back sweeten it. I also know that I should get a cider yeast, but I don't live near a HB shop and I have a few more kit's to get through before I place another bulk order online.

So what do you think? Or is it just toss a coin?

howamidifferent

I bottled 26 litres of this on Feb 9th. Can wait to try it.:D

Khannie

It's Friday! Get trying!

howamidifferent

Would it be drinkable by now?

Khannie

I would say yes. It will definitely improve with time. It will taste nicer in a week for example, but at 2 weeks in the bottle I'd consider it drinkable, especially if you used some tea (less so if you didn't). Depending on the rate you drink it, I think it's nice to see it improve with time by tasting it early on.

howamidifferent

Yes I used tea and malic acid...Will pop one open this evening.

Khannie

Good luck. Post up your first impressions.

Conmaicne Mara

Khannie wrote: »

I would say yes. It will definitely improve with time. It will taste nicer in a week for example, but at 2 weeks in the bottle I'd consider it drinkable, especially if you used some tea (less so if you didn't). Depending on the rate you drink it, I think it's nice to see it improve with time by tasting it early on.

Right about here I could use a chin scratching smiley... I've had cider bottled that long, I was tempted to try it last week but wanted to leave it the month first, I think I'll crack one open tonight!

howamidifferent

Khannie wrote: »

Good luck. Post up your first impressions.

Ok, I chilled and drank a 500ml bottle on Friday night.
Magnificent! Super fizzy, nice sweetness with a lovely bitter aftertaste on the tongue from the malic acid I guess.

Had visitors around Saturday and Sunday so went through 4 litres of it. Everyone was in awe and agreed it was delicious, even though all said they weren't cider drinkers. I think this recipe will be repeated! Quite a lot

Khannie

Welcome to the promised land.

giftgrub

I'm new to all this... and am about to start wine and cider brewing...

This recipe looks great, my question is in relation to sugar, other forums and videos use sugar heated with juice at the start of the process

Are the raisins used here replacing the sugar?

And on temperature, the room i'd be using to ferment is a downstairs bathroom thats been recording temps of 17-20 degrees recently ( thank god for baby monitors) is that ok? or should it be warmer?

Khannie

giftgrub wrote: »

Are the raisins used here replacing the sugar?

Yep.

giftgrub wrote: »

And on temperature, the room i'd be using to ferment is a downstairs bathroom thats been recording temps of 17-20 degrees recently ( thank god for baby monitors) is that ok? or should it be warmer?

That's probably on the warm side. As I understand it, cider works better when fermented at lower temperatures. Mine have been fermenting in the 12-14 degree range of late (that's from the sticker on the side of the bucket).

eurofoxy

quick question, does it turn clear?
as mine has taken on a brownish colour from the yeast, and i am hoping that once it has settled it will turn out clearish or at least a better colour than the trub it looks like now...

also i read online that adding a small bit of sugar during the fermentation can help to increase the alcohol content, anyone ever tried doing this?

howamidifferent

I used 2 litres of red grape juice in mine with 27 litres of apple juice so mine wasn't clear. I had read that adding another juice in small quantities complimented it so thats why I went with grape juice. I didn't add any sugar.

Khannie

eurofoxy wrote: »

quick question, does it turn clear?

Not if you used the cloudy stuff. If you add some pectolase it does get clearer but not clear, clear.

eurofoxy wrote: »

also i read online that adding a small bit of sugar during the fermentation can help to increase the alcohol content, anyone ever tried doing this?

You would generally add it beforehand . I use raisins to achieve this.

Super-Rush

Probably a stupid question but would pressing apples work better than juice from a supermarket?

Mister Burns

Hi Khannie,

Some questions for clarification (I'm a bit slow!)
For 25Ltrs of Juice
- How much water would you use for simmering the tea bags to tar - using 4 tea bags?
- I'm assuming about a cup full of raisins. I don't have a blending wand but can I just chop the sh1t out of the raisins before putting them into the boil?
- How much Cider Yeast should I use?
- Am I reading it right that for priming in the secondary I should use 2.5 additional litres of Cloudy Apple juice and if I want bulmers sweet Cider I should add 250 Lidl tabs at this time?


Thanks for any help/direction you can give me.
MB

Khannie

Super-Rush wrote: »

Probably a stupid question but would pressing apples work better than juice from a supermarket?

Pressed apples would be a shed load better than what you can buy in the supermarket (especially concentrate). The cloudy apple juice does make very nice cider though IMO. I plan on adding some juice from pressed cooking apples to the cloudy apple juice to make it more like cider apples some time.

Khannie

Mister Burns wrote: »

For 25Ltrs of Juice
- How much water would you use for simmering the tea bags to tar - using 4 tea bags?

I don't really measure it, but I'd say about half a litre. I wouldn't worry too much about the difference between 500ml and a litre at that point though tbh. It's a very small fraction of the total brew.

Mister Burns wrote: »

- I'm assuming about a cup full of raisins. I don't have a blending wand but can I just chop the sh1t out of the raisins before putting them into the boil?

Ah yeah, sounds good to me. One thing to note is that most raisins have vegetable oil on them to help with preservation. The sunmaid ones don't. It is possible to get the oil off the cheaper raisins by boiling them a little first, but it's a fair bit of effort. The sunmaid ones are worth paying the extra for unless you've already bought (props to beernut for that tip).

Mister Burns wrote: »

- How much Cider Yeast should I use?

One full packet should just about cover you.

Mister Burns wrote: »

- Am I reading it right that for priming in the secondary I should use 2.5 additional litres of Cloudy Apple juice and if I want bulmers sweet Cider I should add 250 Lidl tabs at this time?

You will lose about 2 litres in trub etc. You'll probably come out with 25 ish litres after you prime. For priming, I would say 2.5 litres would cover you nicely alright (that's 11g per litre of fermentable sugar if you get 25 litres total, which is on the very fizzy side - just the way I like it personally).

I would say 200 lidl tabs should cover that too. Under sweet is better than over sweet. If needs be you can throw a tab into your pint and it will dissolve, but you can't take it out if it's already dissolved.

Mister Burns wrote: »

Thanks for any help/direction you can give me.
MB

More than happy to help. I've received super direction from others on the forum so I'm happy to pass anything I can on.

giftgrub

Ok just so i'm clear on this...perhaps Khannie could throw an eye over this list to make sure I'm 100%

1. Lamp 23 litres of Lidl cloudy apple juice into the ferment bin
2. Boil 4 teabags in 500ml water with 1 cup raisins
3. Remove teabags and blitz raisins with a hand blender and add to apple juice
4. Add Yeast
5. Leave 2 weeks
6. rack off to another bin containing 2l fresh juice
7. Bottle
8. Leave 2 weeks
9. Lamp it into ya...

Where do the sweetner tabs come in again? do they go in the bottles?

howamidifferent

Put the sweetening tabs into the 2nd bucket dissolved in the 2 litres of apple juice.

Brewie

Khannie wrote: »

Depends how sweet you want it. Bulmers sweet is probably five lidl tabs or four splenda tabs per half litre. You'd need to dissolve them in the batch prime mix. The splenda tabs need heat. the lidl ones don't.

My cider is bubbling away at the moment, 6 days in now. I was scared as it took nearly 2 days for the airlock water to bubble.

I'm looking around now for as much info as I can get for bottling. In the above quote, Khannie states that the lidl ones do not need heat so I will use them. What I need clarification on is can I put the tablets into the bottles and then fill them instead of into the batch priming bin. I ask this because I do not know how sweet they will turn out so I want to divide the brew into 3 levels of sweetness. 3 tabs, 4 tabs & 5 tabs per bottle. It just seems to me to be the easiest not effective way to figure it out.

Khannie

Brewie wrote: »

What I need clarification on is can I put the tablets into the bottles and then fill them

Yes you can. After you've filled the bottles, you'll see the tablets fizz away into nothingness. It's a good idea as you say when you want to have a variety of levels. I discovered this by accident (having forgotten to add them to the batch prime mix), but used it much the same way as yourself.

eurofoxy

what are the lidl tabs you refer to? is it just sweetener for coffee/tea? but their own brand...
Does the taste differ much from either the splenda or lidl tabs?

Khannie

eurofoxy wrote: »

what are the lidl tabs you refer to? is it just sweetener for coffee/tea? but their own brand...

Yeah, it's "Cologran" or similar. 1000 tablets will set you back around 1.20 if memory serves.

eurofoxy wrote: »

Does the taste differ much from either the splenda or lidl tabs?

Splenda is better, but I don't think I could taste test the difference myself. Others definitely could.

Its two major disadvantages are cost (significantly more expensive) and slightly increased hassle.

Brewie

I had planned to prime & bottle my cider on Sunday. However due to unforeseen circumstances I won't be able to bottle it for until at least Friday. It has clearly finished fermenting (no more bubbles).
Will leaving it as it is make any difference? Will it ruin the cider?

Khannie

Wont make any difference at all. I've heard of cider being left in primary for months.

Mister Burns

So another set of rookie questions as it will be my first time racking to a secondary bucket and batch priming.

Am I right in thinking I should add the 2.5ltrs of new juice and the 200 tablets to the secondary bucket first, then syphon the Primary to this?
At this point should I stir the mixture? Gently or vigorously?
Does it need to be left to stand in the secondary for any amount of time before bottling?

Thanks again for any help
MB

joctcl

Mister Burns wrote: »

So another set of rookie questions as it will be my first time racking to a secondary bucket and batch priming.

Am I right in thinking I should add the 2.5ltrs of new juice and the 200 tablets to the secondary bucket first, then syphon the Primary to this?
At this point should I stir the mixture? Gently or vigorously?
Does it need to be left to stand in the secondary for any amount of time before bottling?

Thanks again for any help
MB

200 tablets of what?:eek:

Khannie

Mister Burns wrote: »

Am I right in thinking I should add the 2.5ltrs of new juice and the 200 tablets to the secondary bucket first, then syphon the Primary to this?

Yep. That's the way to do it alright.

Mister Burns wrote: »

At this point should I stir the mixture? Gently or vigorously?

The siphon does the stirring, usually. I've never stirred afterwards, but I don't see it doing any harm. I just wouldn't be vigorous.

Mister Burns wrote: »

Does it need to be left to stand in the secondary for any amount of time before bottling?

No, you can bottle straight away.

Good luck!

giftgrub

So if i'm making 1 gallon, as a trial. I just divide everything accordingly? by 4 or so? Alos i picked up some Youngs Super Wine Yeast compound in tesco the other day...would that make any difference?

Khannie

giftgrub wrote: »

So if i'm making 1 gallon, as a trial. I just divide everything accordingly? by 4 or so? Alos i picked up some Youngs Super Wine Yeast compound in tesco the other day...would that make any difference?

Yeah, just divide accordingly.

Not sure about the super wine yeast. I honestly don't know much about yeast but I would guess that white wine yeast is unlikely to do any damage to cider. Cider yeast is just champagne yeast as I understand it.

Mister Burns

So that's 37 bottles filled and ready for summer .......

Thanks Khannie

blueshed

42 bottles filled on Friday, primed 38 of them with approx 50ml of apple juice and the other 4 with 1.5 coopers carb drops.

should be around 9%, in the hotpress for a week then the attic for another 4 weeks and plan on drinking the May bhol.

Brewie

I bottled my first batch 18/03/2013. 25litres in total (including primer)

Tasted one bottled on Sunday night (31/03/2013). It tastes alright (certainly drinkable), next batch I will make if slightly fizzier and slightly sweeter.

Only tasted a bottle as I was waiting for the fridge to cool my beer. End of April it'll be nice!

Worked out at 5.98% according to the formula. I knew I was drinking after the 1 bottle (330ml)!!

giftgrub

Whats main differencfe with priming with fresh juice versus drops? more fizz in drops? My own fizz preference would be bulmers-esque

Khannie

It's minor. I have a slight preference for using juice, partly because you get more cider out, partly flavour. You have slightly greater control (imo) using juice too.

For bulmers level of fizz, 11g of fermentables per litre is about right. That's 1 litre of juice added to 9 litres of fermented cider.

kevc2

I started making this on the 24th of March the SG was 1053 and is currently at 999. I added 1 orange and 1 lemon to the mix, thought it would give it a kick. I also added some sugar. Is it too early to bottle it? Also I will be priming with sugar per bottle, will this make it drinkable? I don't want to leave it on too much longer as it's already going to have a big kick. Thanks