Women priests - will it ever happen?

Roadtrippin

There's an article in the Independent about the subject: 'Irish cleric threatened with excommunication for suggesting women priests a possibility'

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/irish-cleric-threatened-with-excommunication-for-suggesting-women-priests-a-possibility-3358147.html

Will the Catholic Church ever allow any progressive ideas like women priests? What's your opinion, ladies?
I reckon it won't be in my lifetime that they'll allow it. The article above is just another example of how outdated attitudes are and I am not sure if they'll change anytime soon. It's a shame really.
What has to happen for women priests in the Catholic Church to be a possibility?

Morag

I don't think the Roman Catholic* church will this century ordain women as priests, married men will be allowed before that happens.

There are other christian churches which will and tbh I think most Irish Catholics are closer to be Irish Anglicans then roman Catholics but for cultural and historic reasons won't change congregations.

*the Roman Catholic church is not the only catholic church http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic#Other_traditions.

Roadtrippin

My hopes that it'll happen are slim as well.

But maybe in other Christian churches they will allow it. Didn't they have a vote on this issue over in the UK but it was decided that female priests were still not allowed in the Anglican church?

I just wish someday they would make it happen. But I'd say your prediction is correct. Priests will be able to marry before that will happen...

Morag

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordination_of_women#Christianity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordination_of_women_in_the_Anglican_Communion

No the Church of England has women priests, the most recent vote disallowed them becoming bishops.

The Church of Ireland has women priests and allows women to become bishops but there hasn't been one appointed yet.

Roadtrippin

I'm obviously not informed enough about the matter! Thanks for the links

*goes and does some research*

Morag

another link for you

http://www.associationofcatholicpriests.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Contemporary-Catholic-Perspectives.pdf

http://geoffsshorts.blogspot.ie/2013/01/in-defence-of-catholics-and-choice.html#more

The association of Catholic Priests funded the following excellent survey of Irish Catholics. Contraception and abortion were not covered directly, but we can judge general compliance with the hierarchy's rulings from other areas:

Only 12% of laypeople believe their views are sought by the hierarchy on important issues in their diocese
87% believe priests should be allowed marry
77% support the ordination of women
72% believe married men should be eligible for ordination
75% feel the Church's teachings on sexuality are irrelevant
Only 18% agree with the hierarchy on homosexuality
87% believe that divorcees should be allowed receive communion

Given those stats on those issues, like I said before it seems many Irish Catholics are not Roman Catholics and the type of reforms the association of catholic priests are looking (aside form the doctrine of Transubstantiation) are how the current Church of Ireland does things.

Roadtrippin

Brilliant! Thanks for that - will give me a bit of reading on the subject!

I wonder though, if such a high percentage of Irish Catholics have such modern ideas why has nothing been done in a lot of those areas? It boggles the mind why reform seems to take so long if the majority of people backs priests marrying and women priests?!

Morag

I think there may well be a schism to come.
I am hearing from people who are decades involved with the church as lay people,
who did partnerships in faith courses and Masters in All Hollows, who are on parish councils
that they have such modern ideas and they are looking for a way to make change happen.

coffee_cake

I don't see why it should. It's their club, their rules. Plenty of christian churches have women clerics or whatever that people can join.

pwurple

Certainly not under this pope.

Lingua Franca

I don't see the Catholic church ever allowing women priests even if every Catholic in the world said they'd be down with it. Saint Paul, the first pope, was against letting women have any status in the church.

"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."[1 Cor. 14:34–35]

"Now I permit a woman neither to teach nor exercise authority over a man, but let her be in quietness."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle_and_women

Or to quote The Life Of Brian: "'cos it's written, that's why!"

Roadtrippin

bluewolf wrote: »

I don't see why it should. It's their club, their rules. Plenty of christian churches have women clerics or whatever that people can join.

It is their own business, yes. But I reckon a church that doesn't allow any women to be a priest but at the same time claims women and men are equal is quite hypocritical...

I am not a devout Catholic so, tbh, I don't mind that much what they do. But I think those Christian churches that aren't willing to take new (or not so new) ideas on board will lose members in the long run.

Viper_JB

Roadtrippin wrote: »

It is their own business, yes. But I reckon a church that doesn't allow any women to be a priest but at the same time claims women and men are equal is quite hypocritical...

I am not a devout Catholic so, tbh, I don't mind that much what they do. But I think those Christian churches that aren't willing to take new (or not so new) ideas on board will lose members in the long run.

Time and time again they've proven themselves to be very hypocritical, misogyny and patriarchy seem to be blocks on which the religion sits. In this day and age for any institution to be so sexist comes across as an almost immature school yard type prejudice. In saying that as BW said it's their own house/boys club, I guess we can be thankful that the religion no longer has such a strong hold over the minds on the Irish people.

Personally I don't see it ever happening as there never has been much a huge amount of morality or basic common sense placed upon the decisions made in the past, it'll continue to be run like a dictatorship until it dies I'd imagine. (Sorry for the rant )

awec

This post has been deleted.

Morag

awec wrote: »

Personally, I'd far rather see the church fade into obscurity and become an irrelevance so that people don't actually care that they don't allow women priests.

It's their church so it's their rules, what I find strange is people who give off about the no women as priests thing yet at the same time are happy enough to go to church every weekend.

Because those people see it as being their church,their parish, their community, they help run it, they fund it not some old man in a white dress in Vatican city.

awec

This post has been deleted.

Roadtrippin

awec wrote: »

Personally, I'd far rather see the church fade into obscurity and become an irrelevance so that people don't actually care that they don't allow women priests.

It's their church so it's their rules, what I find strange is people who give off about the no women as priests thing yet at the same time are happy enough to go to church every weekend.

I don't see a complete disappearance of the church happening in Ireland. It's a massive part of community life here, and schools and people are way two intertwined on one level or another with the church.
A lot of charity work is run by the church or church-related organisations. It would be a shame to completely lose that aspect of the church. I think not all things related to faith, religion or the church are bad. There is just need for reform to make it more relevant and useful to younger people.

awec wrote: »

The catholic church makes up it's own rules, those who attend are buying in to those rules. Women priests is not a decision that can be made at each individual parish, it's something that has to come from the top.

Yes, to some extent you're right. But there are plenty of people that still buy into some aspects of the Catholic Church without agreeing with every thing that is said or done there. I reckon those people should also be allowed some input into the way the church is run but not sure if that is happening or will ever happen.

krudler

I don't see why anyone who would want female priests, married priests, gay marrige etc etc would even consider themselves a Catholic to begin with. I can't think of a single other organisation where people go against the majority of its rules and teachings and still consider themselves members, its genuinely baffling.

There's a thread about this very thing in A&A forum as well, and was said by another poster, why do so many Catholics not have a clue about Catholicism?

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

*Thinks very quickly*

I'm in favour of them

Roadtrippin

deccurley wrote: »

*Thinks very quickly*

I'm in favour of them

In favour of...? Female Priests? Catholics? Which are you in favour of?

Dolbert

Roadtrippin wrote: »

In favour of...? Female Priests? Catholics? Which are you in favour of?

Fr. Ted reference

Roadtrippin

Dolbert wrote: »

Fr. Ted reference

Ha, now I get it

fits

krudler wrote: »

I don't see why anyone who would want female priests, married priests, gay marrige etc etc would even consider themselves a Catholic to begin with. I can't think of a single other organisation where people go against the majority of its rules and teachings and still consider themselves members, its genuinely baffling.

There's a thread about this very thing in A&A forum as well, and was said by another poster, why do so many Catholics not have a clue about Catholicism?

Because it is part of our identity.

I have hugely mixed feelings about the Catholic Church. My father died last year and the peace and routine being part of it gave him in the run up to his death was wonderful. Also the funeral ceremony was really beautiful. It was very simple and very religious.

Personally, I am lapsed and am the last person who will accept crazy beliefs just because I am supposed to, but I can see the value of a community, a place for reflection, a moral framework, an organisation that encourages people to think about and be generous towards those less well off than themselves.

Some of the most intelligent and interesting people I have met have been priests and I just think it is sad how they are expected to live their lives. And the focus from the vatican and the bishops lately always seems to be on issues like homosexuality and abortion, and never on other important issues like the greed and corruption we saw with the Celtic Tiger. If there were a schism, I would certainly be interested to see what happens.

krudler

fits wrote: »

Because it is part of our identity.

If you were a member of say, a GAA club or a social group or something with a track record of lies, deceit, corruption, scandals and abuse on an industrial level like the church has, would you still call yourself a member?

fits

krudler wrote: »

If you were a member of say, a GAA club or a social group or something with a track record of lies, deceit, corruption, scandals and abuse on an industrial level like the church has, would you still call yourself a member?

I'm a member of a bank if that helps

Death and Taxes

krudler wrote: »

I don't see why anyone who would want female priests, married priests, gay marrige etc etc would even consider themselves a Catholic to begin with. I can't think of a single other organisation where people go against the majority of its rules and teachings and still consider themselves members, its genuinely baffling.

There's a thread about this very thing in A&A forum as well, and was said by another poster, why do so many Catholics not have a clue about Catholicism?

I cant think of any other organization that has refused to evolve and grow with the times.
I see nothing wrong with the members of any organization including a religion campaigning for change within the organization.
Being a member should not require blind loyalty and obedience, indeed quite the opposite it should require constand reflection on how the organization functions and what it needs to do to remain relavent in changing times.

seenitall

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

I cant think of any other organization that has refused to evolve and grow with the times.
I see nothing wrong with the members of any organization including a religion campaigning for change within the organization.
Being a member should not require blind loyalty and obedience, indeed quite the opposite it should require constand reflection on how the organization functions and what it needs to do to remain relavent in changing times.

That's all well and good if, you, as a Catholic, are prepared to live a few hundred years (at a very generous guess), in order to see what you are campaigning for (say women as priests, priests being allowed to marry, the change of the horrific, death-courting stance on contraception in Africa, etc...), gain any sort of traction, credibility or voice.

Because as far as I can tell from both the history of the Church and its very current practices, the financial and intellectual protection of its indisputable authority and its self-serving hierarchy is the unquestionable uppermost priority in the minds of its echelons.

Everything and anything else comes only a very vague second, third and so on, thus making it well nigh impossible for mere laity to influence any of their thinking or affect any change.

Death and Taxes

seenitall wrote: »

That's all well and good if, you, as a Catholic, are prepared to live a few hundred years (at a very generous guess), in order to see what you are campaigning for (say women as priests, priests being allowed to marry, the change of the horrific, death-courting stance on contraception in Africa, etc...), gain any sort of traction, credibility or voice.

Because as far as I can tell from both the history of the Church and its very current practices, the financial and intellectual protection of its indisputable authority and its self-serving hierarchy is the unquestionable uppermost priority in the minds of its echelons.

Everything and anything else comes only a very vague second, third and so on, thus making it well nigh impossible for mere laity to influence any of their thinking or affect any change.

I'm not a Catholic.
I was trying to put the view that counters the arguement that those who don't like it should leave the Church, the idea that you should just accept things as they are if you wish to remain a member of an organization.

Dfmnoc

don't think many women are into raping children

seenitall

Oh that's fine, I was using a general 'you' there really. (I'm not a Catholic either... any more.)

I think the idea that you were countering has a lot of merit, that's why I responded to your post.

I see life as being too short to bother with ideas, people or situations which, when unsatisfactory to my values, tastes and standards, don't yield an inch / are completely resistant to change. I'd rather spend my limited time and energy on things in which my input is valued and on things that I can actually enjoy or even improve during my time on the planet.

However, of course, when talking about this particular instance, I expect my opinion would possibly be different if I believed in the existence of that particular, three-pronged, bearded guy in the sky. As I don't, there it is.

Das Kitty

Dfmnoc wrote: »

don't think many women are into raping children

Nor are many men.

What's your point exactly?