Begrudging/Looking down on those who do well for themselves.....

AudreyHepburn

mikom wrote: »

His guilt is not someone elses begrudgery.
Tell him not to overthink things too much

I know that. I'm just making the point that as a society we are generally more begrudging and judgemental about those still able to support themselves and enjoy themselves and it annoys me that we've to gotten to that.

Of my Dad has nothing to feel guilty about and I told him that but it's sad that people's attitudes are such that he feels he has to think that way.

mikom

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I know that. I'm just making the point that as a society we are generally more begrudging and judgemental about those still able to support themselves and enjoy themselves and it annoys me that we've to gotten to that.

Correction......... some parts of society.

AudreyHepburn

mikom wrote: »

Correction......... some parts of society.

Of course....I put that badly....apologies!

Lenin Skynard

It just looks to me that your Dad hasn't forgotten where he's come from. Starting out on your own as a self employed person is usually a struggle at the start and sometimes for a long while. Your Dad probably has a good few clients who are now struggling and he doesn't feel the same solidarity with them that he used to, even though he can identify with them.

steddyeddy

If people work hard I have no problem with the getting whatever pay. That in itself is a good stimilus for social mobility.people will see that and say I want to be her/him. I think most people would agree with that. The problem in this country is imo some people have to put a lot more work than others in to attain that well paid position.

Yakult

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Yes. He's feeling guilty. Nobody -according to your post - is MAKING him feel guilty. He's making himself feel guilty.

Stop worrying about what other people might be thinking.

Thankfully someone has pointed this out.

steddyeddy

Yakult wrote: »

Thankfully someone has pointed this out.

Still the op asked a valid question.

SEPT 23 1989

Your father bought/leased the new jeep for tax reasons

awec

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

Basically this.



The difference here is this is a dude who goes out and does, what sounds like, pretty hard labour. The "Wealthy elite" go out dressed in an absurdly expensive suit, sit behind a desk and let everyone else do work while they figure out ways to screw money out of the first guy.

And what?

You think hard work = coming home from work every day sweating having just done 8 hours manual labour?

You reckon that to justify a large wage, or being able to afford expensive items, you have to do physically difficult work? Anyone else is piggybacking and screwing over those who do the physical work?

Ush1

Ya know what's gas though. To have a lot of nice material things you don't have to be making great money.

You can save and get work done to your house and get a decent car and a big telly or whatever. Most of that stuff if you don't actually want it is just a transparent display of wealth.

end of the road

tunedout wrote: »

There are many people going around now charging well over the odds for carpentry services and plumbing services etc and they are arriving in 12 jeeps and vans with the best of gear. with the budget crucyfying families and families struggling to support and keep up i can see where the begrudging comes from. maybe if the trades people put more effort into their pricing and thought twice about spending €50k on a mode of transportation then we wouldn't be in the bother we'r in.

their not spending 50 k because they want to, its because they have to, their professional tradesmen so therefore they need to have the proper equipment and a mode of transport to bring it round, you do have a point on pricing but these people do have bills to pay as well, probably more infact as their probably still paying for their equipment and jeep or van.

Madam_X

There's such an obsession with not being a begrudger and being congratulatory re anyone who's fortunate (not just "done well") in this country. I really don't see this apparent epidemic of begrudgery. Yeh you'll get the resentful types but they can be found anywhere. Maybe it's more prevalent here in rural communities or was more prevalent on a grander scale in the past?
Blindly droning "fair play" regarding anyone at all though isn't much better. Some people get where they are via ill gotten gains. And being a flashy show-off in a "let them eat cake" fashion and a spoilt, pampered shyte-bag - well criticism of that is not begrudgery, it's identifying obnoxious behaviour, despite what the Abercrombie & Fitch worshippers tell themselves.
And as said, one can dislike someone for other reasons besides their success. Jedward is an example - they got lucky and they provide great entertainment for children. But if adults find them irritating and too crappy to tolerate (not saying the two lads deserve abuse or anything) that's only their opinion; without the money and celebrity they'd be the same.

I'm doing ok for myself - nothing major but I've a lot to be thankful for. I'm not guilty about it but every so often it hits home how much luckier I am than some; there but for the grace, etc. There's no need to feel guilty but no harm not taking things for granted completely either.

Red Hand

awec wrote: »

And what?

You think hard work = coming home from work every day sweating having just done 8 hours manual labour?

You reckon that to justify a large wage, or being able to afford expensive items, you have to do physically difficult work? Anyone else is piggybacking and screwing over those who do the physical work?

I do a job that isn't physically demanding and I sit at a desk, and to be honest, I do think like the above as well at times.

sonic85

personally i dont really see any problem with a bit of begrudgery or envy or whatever. i dont see what difference it makes to the wealthy person - would they care? i know i wouldnt!

unless the wealthy person is getting abused in the street or something then it would be an issue. if i saw someone driving a ferrari or something i wouldnt call him/her a prick id just say nice car wish i could afford one and then go do the euromillions!

people getting good money for doing sweet fcuk all is something i hate though - a few cases of it in my workplace that really gets on my nerves

woodoo

Your father shouldn't feel at all guilty. He is doing an honest days work for an honest days pay.

I drive an old banger but if i had the money i'd drive a brand new car and not give a toss what people thought.

awec

Define an "honest day's work".

Tis a phrase thrown around a lot.

Cienciano

steddyeddy wrote: »

I dont think the irish thing is hating people from wealth rather hate to see social mobility. Ie people from poor backgrounds work hard to aquire wealth.

I find the opposite. If someone has a rich parents, there's a better chance they'll be sneered at because of "daddys money". Where if someone started a company or something people would just think they're doing well for themselves.

MMAGirl

I have to laugh sometimes. Or i'd cry because of the attitude of my fellow Irish.
Id be talking to someone and they bring up renting vs buying or some other stupid property thing that they feel they can lord it with. It comesup that i'm a buyer not a renter and they talk to me as if they feel sorry for me that i have bought my house. Saying things like oh isnt it terrible that you got caught out in all this madness. and I'm sure there will be some help for you.
You know the passive aggresive type who act like they are feeling sorry for you because you are worse than them.
And then when I clear it up that I have paid my mortgage off and am not effected in the way they assume I am, they nearly cry because their little rant wasnt going the way they wanted. Its amazing how they look like they are constipated. It nearly kills them to continue the conversation.

Roisy7

Richard Hillman wrote: »

In Ireland there is some sort of predetermined idea that you are shunted into a class for life and a lot of people seem to be proud to be working class (nothing wrong with that) and would never dream of trying to further their social or economic standing.

.

While there's a lot of truth in that in city areas, especially in disadvantaged areas, don't think class divisions are as bad as say in the UK. I come from a disadvantaged background myself and the Irish state gave me a good free education. Of course being from a rural background most people were middle class so maybe that was an extra incentive.

My mother's from the uk, from a pretty wealthy family (she's a bit if a black sheep) and the divisions over there are striking. I'd probably be on Jeremy Kyle asking for a lie detector test in baby daddy no 8 by now if we hadn't come to Ireland :P Whereas here I'm a MA with no job....

I agree with madam x. Begrudgery is not uniquely Irish (wasn't it Gore Vidal who said "every time a friend succeeds a part of me dies"?)

Some Irish people are judgemental and narrow minded and they would prob judge the op's dad just as harshly if he wasn't doing well, they've just nothing better to do.

For example my friend has these neighbours, all they do is talk about what people in town have and haven't. My friends mother had to stop talking to them for a while, she couldn't hack the gossip without murdering them. They were on about how someone's son failed the LC but believe me they would have gone on just the same if he got 500 points.

Oh when I see a 12 reg I just wonder when are the lights going to change, same as any other car.

goose2005

seamus wrote: »

You're the one who's dressing it up like every wealthy person has run off and dumped a shedload of debt on the Irish people. A handful of scumbags have done this. The majority of exceptionally wealthy people haven't.

False. The property crisis was caused by thousands of people, lawyers, politicians, economists, bankers, civil servants, journalists, ordinary labourers, farmers, advertisers etc. etc. The real world isn't like a cartoon, where half a dozen baddies sit around a table plotting their next evil scheme. Crises like this arise from a culture, most notably the naive assumption that everything would be fine and anyone who said otherwise was jealous, and anyone who didn't go along with the culture was stupid or cowardly.